1930s house - floorboard insulation

[Paulh_Boats]

I have inherited my late Dad's 1931 ex-council house and I'm modernising it for renting. It already has cavity wall insulation and recent roof insulation up to 300mm.

We have cleared out the old cooker and the sofa has to go because its not fire resistant. The kitchen will need refitting when a new oven is added and the wiring may need upgrading and I'll be installing central heating.... so now is probably the best time ever to insulate the entire ground floor whilst the house is empty.

The kitchen has a solid concrete floor added in the 60s, the living room still has floorboards I think. Apart from the obvious need to shorten doors and replace skirting boards will there be any problem adding 1in of insulation then 18mm T&G chipboard?  Shall I add a vapour barrier and are there ventilation issues for the floorboards? What insulation can I use in the kitchen where there is a risk of water spillage?

Regarding the front door, it will need replacing anyway so can I get a uPVC door built shorter or are short versions available ready built?

The living room is small and cosy, I see no point in adding underfloor heating...it would be better to fit a wood burning stove in the existing fireplace. Does anyone recommend fitting a flue now, even if we keep the existing gas fire?


cheers
Paul

[KenB]

Paul,

Remember that it is your tennant, not you, that is going to be living in this house.

Spend money on a plain functional kitchen,  white modern bathroom suite and conventional gas central heating.  Whst a WBS might be quaint, it won't suit everyone.

Certainly an extra layer of insulation on top of the cold concrete floor would make it feel warmer.  How good is the existing concrete floor. If it's at all ropey, it might pay you to dig it out with a breaker and start again with a decent layer of insulation first.


Ken

[Paulh_Boats]

Ken,

Good points there. Landlords now have to provide energy performance certificates to prospective tenants, so the more insulation the better.

Also floor insulation is now tax deductable for a Landlord: 
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/pbr2006/pbrn12.htm

The concrete floor is covered with Marley tiles in good condition so no problems there. I just don't know if floorboards suffer covered with insulation.

cheers
-Paul

[tony.]

paul,

whatch out, some old tiles contained asbestos.

tony

[Rooster]

Slightly off topic but have you checked with your local council about finance?

I've been looking recently and found nothing of use for myself however along the way I did come across some interesting schemes.

Our County Council has a 'No Use Empty' scheme which is only available to owners doing work to a currently empty home which then leads to the house being either sold or rented. Up to £25 K is available for single dwellings or £175 K for multiple dwellings.

These are interest free loans, so if they're available a great way to fund the improvements and might allow you to get the house up to a very good standard, perhaps including some aspects you might not otherwise include. I'd be interested to see if you could get grid tied PV funded through this as part of a renovation, interest free loan + FITS has got to be a winner!

When I last spoke to our lot they were having trouble getting people to apply, and were concerned they may not get all their budget spent!

[Fintray]

Paul

With regard to the floorboards, I think they should be ok as long as the underfloor ventilation is good, as in Scotland traditional roofing has sarking covered with roofing felt which is not permeable and the sarking does not suffer from only having a single direction from which moisture can escape. So if it works in the roof can't see a problem with the floor

[desperate]

Hi Pual
Paul
I'm with Ken here, keep in mind who is going to live here and keep it simple/neutral, Tenants+WBS= a burnt down house, I have 2 lots of tenants and they are both great, but I still get silly calls asking how to change the heating programmer, turn off the water supply to a dripping tap/ electricity etc. Also you have to reckon on a complete decorate job each change of tenancy. Regarding the floor, I feel it would be easier to lift the boards on the suspended floor and get a good layer in, than to change all the skirting, which will lead to a load of plastering repairs, and then chop all the doors and buy an unstandard front door, pulling up a floor is not a lot of work and while you are there you can plumb and wire up, and I bet 90% of the boards will go back down, also as Ken says, wack out the solid floor and get 10cm celotex under it, go on you know you want to.

Good luck

Desperate

[tony.]

you can also conact the council and get the council tax stopped /reduced due the house being 'unhabitable'

we got a 6 month reduction when we bought our house 4 years ago, we would have got more but the previous owner did the same when they tried to renovate it

tony

[KenB]

Desperate,

Slightly OT, but a neighbour across the street started kango-ing his concrete driveway about 4 weeks ago.  He then got a more sensible breaker, and then finally a mini-digger with a breaker attachment.

This went on for about 3 weekends, with a large pile of broken concrete appearing in his front garden, with wife roped in to wheelbarrow the spoil.   It was not a small driveway, it ran about 25m down the side of his house to a garage behind and about 3m wide.

He then dug down to about 300mm below the old concrete and several skips of subsoil being carted away.  He then got the mini digger in to spread the now broken concrete as hardcore around the soil.

It was at this point that I went to see what he was up to - this seemed like 3 weekends  of backbreaking work and major expense with minidigger and driver. The concrete rubble was then given a good thick layer of Type 1, and the whole lot compacted flat and hard.  I suspected that he was going to get fancy block paving down - and wanted a good solid base.

"So it's block paving your'e going for/" , I  quizzed - "No", came the reply, in what was possibly a Canadian accent -

 "Gravel!"

The mind boggles, a Canadian with a pink gravel fetish, who's just blown the fat end of £5K, and a month's hard labour (for him and his wife) for a few stones that will spread themselves all over the pavement the first time he reverses his Subaru out.




Ken

[desperate]

A Canadian with a breaker fetish...... oooeerr missus

Desp

[Paulh_Boats]

Hi Pual
Paul
I'm with Ken here, keep in mind who is going to live here and keep it simple/neutral, Tenants+WBS= a burnt down house, I have 2 lots of tenants and they are both great, but I still get silly calls asking how to change the heating programmer, turn off the water supply to a dripping tap/ electricity etc. Also you have to reckon on a complete decorate job each change of tenancy. Regarding the floor, I feel it would be easier to lift the boards on the suspended floor and get a good layer in, than to change all the skirting, which will lead to a load of plastering repairs, and then chop all the doors and buy an unstandard front door, pulling up a floor is not a lot of work and while you are there you can plumb and wire up, and I bet 90% of the boards will go back down, also as Ken says, wack out the solid floor and get 10cm celotex under it, go on you know you want to.

Good luck

Desperate

OK WBS is off the agenda, it was just a passing idea so I thought I would bounce it around!  

The floor insulation idea started as a way to make the toilet warmer   Like most 1930s houses it is isolated at the corner of the house next to the back door and it was freezing when I was a kid (40 years ago!). There is a 5in drop down to the back porch/toilet so its easy to add 2in insulation + 18mm chipboard to both reduce the step and improve insulation. Neighbours have put a radiator in the loo and I think a uPVC back door with weatherproof seals will improve it significantly.  (I've seen loads on ebay for under £50)

Then I thought about insulating the other floors to meet modern standards....and got a bit carried away.

Thinking some more the area of the kitchen is not great, the popular kitchen vinyl flooring will probably do the job and also take the chill off the porch and loo floor.

Regarding council tax - I don't have probate yet (will not executed) so technically don't own the house yet, and because there is no "owner" to send the bill to there is no council tax to pay . Being both Executor of the will and sole beneficiary I'm effectively God, so any delays in the legal process save tax! Its a bizarre loop hole in the law.

cheers
Paul

[spluger]

in an ideal world the government would give you a grant to modernise the insulation on the house
and if it was a legal requirement before you could rent it (with grant) it would help all of us

lets keep dreaming!

[Paulh_Boats]

in an ideal world the government would give you a grant to modernise the insulation on the house
and if it was a legal requirement before you could rent it (with grant) it would help all of us

lets keep dreaming!

I agree - if I was in charge I'd up the building regs so that when a house was rented or sold the insulation had to meet the regs.  Ours has cavity wall and 300mm loft insulation, soon a grade A boiler so that's a good start.

-Paul

[KenB]

Paul,

There is a 5in drop down to the back porch/toilet so its easy to add 2in insulation + 18mm chipboard to both reduce the step and improve insulation.

Surely this would leave you an equally pointless 2" step.     5" is a step but 2" is just a trip-hazard.

Go the whole hog an put 4"  of celotex down then your 18mm chipboard.  That will at least get the floor onto the same level throughout.

Our back kitchen and bathroom was a 7" step down, it got 4" of celotex and 3" of screed  which contains the UFH loop.  Now it's warm, draught free and got rid of the pointless step.


Ken

[Paulh_Boats]

Paul,

There is a 5in drop down to the back porch/toilet so its easy to add 2in insulation + 18mm chipboard to both reduce the step and improve insulation.

Surely this would leave you an equally pointless 2" step.     5" is a step but 2" is just a trip-hazard.

Go the whole hog an put 4"  of celotex down then your 18mm chipboard.  That will at least get the floor onto the same level throughout.

Our back kitchen and bathroom was a 7" step down, it got 4" of celotex and 3" of screed  which contains the UFH loop.  Now it's warm, draught free and got rid of the pointless step.

Ken

Ken,

Well done for your flash of brilliance.       The reason for the half way compromise was the even bigger drop from back door to ground...but wifey thinks an additional outdoor step will fix that. I'll measure things today and draw up some diagrams.

cheers
Paul