House Rewire/inspection questions

[Paulh_Boats]

The saga of modernising my late Dad's house for renting continues..

I checked the lighting circuits..no earth so all lighting needs to be rewired and switches/roses replaced.

In the front room double sockets are wired as spurs with 4mm cable, back to 15A MCBs that plug into an old style fuse box. There is nothing technically wrong with that, but how would it fair in a full electrical inspection?

The wiring in the cupboard under the stairs is quite creative - the light spured off a double socket spur from another socket  . Dad knew what he was doing hence a 15A MCB for that circuit and RCD for whole house. The whole lot will have to go - replaced by a ring and new lighting circuit.

To keep the costs down I'll lay the cables myself, the floorboards will be up for installing radiators anyway. I'll leave floorboards up so that sparky can fully inspect every inch of cable. The bricks are rock hard and adjacent houses were rewired with plastic conduit everywhere - whats the verdict on that? Seems good as sparky can inspect everything and tenant knows exactly where the cables are - hence no risks driving in nails for pictures, even though all circuits will be RCD protected as per 17th.

Loft wiring: With 300mm of insulation I plan to poke a stick up through the ceiling rose and pull the cable through and clip it to the rafters. I hate the multiple wires into a ceiling rose nonsense (it quickly turns into a rat's nest) so I will run the 4 lights and switches back to a wiring box near the loft hatch (8 cables). Therefore sparky will clearly see the path of cables and can test each light if necessary - I also think its a lot easier to connect the wires in one central box. How does that sound?

cheers
Paul

[Billy]

Hi Paul,

That's what I did for my friends extension recently.  Basically did the whole job bar connecting to the box.  Left everything so he could see and test.  Silly thing is I felt more confident with myself than with him bumbling about, still, he had the ticket not me.  I am sure you will be more than proficient.

Billy

 

[wyleu]

Do the lot, that way it's all under your control. Imagine trying to explain to certificating bod that that bit of cable wasn't actally installed b you but you know it's good cos....  It's one of those sentances that just tails off to nowhere.

[Paulh_Boats]

Do the lot, that way it's all under your control. Imagine trying to explain to certificating bod that that bit of cable wasn't actally installed b you but you know it's good cos....  It's one of those sentances that just tails off to nowhere.

Wyleu,

Ok, good advice - I was trying to avoid wrecking the wallpaper removing the buried spurs.....OR is it ok to leave the disconnected wires in the wall if I use surface conduit?

cheers
Paul

[wyleu]

Recycling value of the copper?, Overall neatness?
I'd take them out simply to save a future Duty Holder the uncertainty of discovery.
Once you've decided to do it it's just a matter of when the show goes ahead. What time the curtain opens and whose on the stage.

[Pat_]

If you're going to do wiring yourself, and then expect certification from an electrician, there is only one possible route. You pick the guy/girl you want to do this and you ask them before you start if they are happy with this. The electrician scams schemes don't allow this approach, so you need an understanding person to agree in advance. If you can't find one then you could notify BC. Their reaction varies from completely illegal to really helpful. My BC officer is allowing me to wire my new extension on the basis that he deems me to be a competant person, provided I submit my own EIC. Requiring me to do that is strictly speaking 'illegal' but suits me so I won't complain.

[tony.]

paul,

as pointed out earlier, you must find a willing electrician first.

Lighting circuit wired via the joint box method is good, i did mine like that, it makes it easy to connect up everything, with only 1 cable at switches and lights, and then you spend 10 minutes at the joint box, it also makes it easy for fault finding.

use a decent adaptable box, I have fitted din rail and din rail terminals(sak terminals) it makes it neat and professional, use stuffing glands to secure the cable to the joint box( these are available for T&E)

Sockets, there isnt a wall that cannot be chased/wraggled out, so personally as the property is empty i would dothat as the installation looks 100% better with the accessoried flush.

You can pick up fully loaded wylex consumer units from Ross Electrical (Newey&Eyre) or B&Q fully compliant with the 17th Edition.

As your rewiring you will need to fit mains powered smoke detectors, interlinked to each other. you can have these on there own MCB or on a frequently used circuit( i like to use lighting circuit, as people wont sit in the dark), so 230volt supply to the first smoke and then a 3core &e to the next and next. check out Aico website for more info, as you may need to fit heat detector in kitchen as well??


standard houses are wired-
2.5mm t&E for sockets
1.5mm t&e for lights
10mm earth for water and gas bond
most consumer units come fitted with 100 DP switches so 25mm double insulated tails and a 16mm main earth will be required.

if your putting in electric cooker or shower you will need to give us a distance and a load, failing any info stick in a 10mm t&e which will be more than sufficient.

tony

[Justme]

Sockets, there isnt a wall that cannot be chased/wraggled out,

Well yes thats true but do you really want to spend all day doing one socket box & chase in a granite stone cottage with solid floors? Our last house did not have the depth of plaster to chase in to. Even using a stone cutter disk & hammer stop sds its was a &%^$£* of a job.

[Paulh_Boats]

Tony, Justme, Pat, Wylue,

Thanks for the replies - chasing the sockets flush is damned hard with engineering bricks!  The 1930s bricks will survive WW3 - when I fitted extra handrails for Dad it was a devil of a job just to drill 8mm holes and some took a couple of minutes of hard pressure....they don't build bricks like they used to!

When it was rewired in the 60s the cables were buried but the sockets mounted on the surface, presumably because the bricks are so hard. Likewise all light switches are surface mounted. I'm in two minds about the cables either side of the chimney breast, buried would look good but if someone decides to fit a shelf in the alcove they will have to be really careful drilling the holes. Maybe I should take pictures of the cables before plastering over....now there's a good idea!

Have already talked to Building Inspector, he also suggested the smoke detectors should be on a light circuit.

Brother of a good neighbour is a qualified electrician, and he's known me since a kid. So I'll try and get him involved and see if he can do inspection and test.

I wish there was a way professional engineers could register for £50 to work on their own property..its insane paying £500 to register for a few bits of unpaid work here and there.

-Paul

-Paul

[tony.]

a diamond blade in a 9" grinder will sort any wall, ok there will be a bit of dust but the house is empty anyway. the way to do it so the boxes are in a straight line is to hold the box in the required position mark the fixing holes and drill the fixings holes to say 70mm depth, once you have wraggled out 35mm, your fixing holes are already there and might just need a clean out, this is a good idea in kitchens when there might be a few sockets etc in a row.

a normal rotary hammer drill is very hard work on materials such as engineering brick however a sds drill is a totally different machine.


if your running cables you might add a few bt points and a couple of tv points as well, no point in going to the trouble of hiding the mains cable and bt/tv man clip to the  skirting boards.

if you think the property will be unlet for a while a alarm system would be good so generally 6 core alarm cable to pir/mag bell positions would be a another idea, with a autodialler the alarm could phone you in the event of a activation.

tony

[Paulh_Boats]

Tony,

That sounds like an excuse to get a new SDS toy    I have used an angle grinder indoors before, they make a hell of a mess but as you say its empty.

The SDS chisels look damn useful:

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/90956/Drill-Bits/Electrical-Box-Sinkers/Armeg-Electrical-Box-Sinker-Chisel-Hard-Material

It sounds like SDS is the way to go...it will get plenty of use.

cheers
Paul

[hiccup]

Hi Paul

If I were you I'd go for one of these Bosch GBH4-32DFR or something similar with at least a 4kg hammer - the 2kg jobbies won't make much of a dent in your bricks.

I've got the earlier version and it takes a great deal of abuse  



http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/details.php?cat=SDS%20Chisel%20Drills%20Bosch&product=99872

Hic!

[desperate]

Sorry Paul, I just need a quick drool at that piccy up there, SDS+ eng bricks= no probs.

Desperate

[tony.]

paul,


you get dust supression kits for sthil saws, but for a grinder cutting stone, enlist a pal, one for the grinder and 1 with a small water bottle sprayer, pointing it at the wall, this should keep the dust down.

tony

[johnrae]

I find that a large extractor fan (not the silly 4" ones offered as kitchen or toilet extractors - rather the large ones often used in pubs and clubs to remove cigarette smoke) mounted into a window of the room in which the cutting is taking place and keeping the room doors closed is very effective at controlling dust contamination
jack