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Author Topic: Wiring for 1-wire sensors  (Read 3357 times)
KLD
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« on: November 20, 2009, 10:18:56 PM »

A week ago I started putting up my first few 1-wire temperature probes. The DS18B20 arrived from China in no time (3 days). Four of them are now in their pockets at various heights of the thermal store. Initially they ran in parasitic mode, ie. without power injector (due to lack of a proper lead to connect to the 6P6C "RJ11" socket of the DS9490R 1-wire-to-USB bridge. So, a 6P2C old telephone cable got me going for a the first few days.) Well, four T sensors worked fine. But I wanted more. The DS9490R provides +5V on pin 1, so I made up a new lengths of cable with a 6P6C plug. And from now the waters muddied.

It appears that the 1-wire cabling is quite sensitive to little mistakes. For instance, you can't have a trailing wire without any termination on the network. So, go from DS9490R to a sensor, then add another half a meter of wire without anything at the end, and the network is dead.
Now, Wylew made a very good point in saying you should put a return wire in from your furthest sensor, otherwise it'll be difficult to extend the network later. Only worked for me when I put a sensor at the end of the return.  Undecided

The worst are the panel sensors. I mean, it's always the least accessible one, isn't it? I wanted three sensors, on cold end, between the two panels, and hot end. All clipped to the pipes. And since I was outside, I put a forth sensor on and stuck it onto te north side of the chimney to record air temperature. It's about 10m of cable between the tank and the panels. And guess what, it all worked (eventually, after I cut the return wire out). Up I climb again, put the pipe insulation around it, tidy up, ladders down, scaffold tower down, network == half dead.  fume The four sensors on the roof all but gone. Scaffold tower up again, ladder onto the roof again (getting good at that now), balancing delicately bellywise on the roof's ridge and taking the insulation off again, while her indoors keeps calling "digitemp -w', and hey presto, the sensors are back alive. Squash the wires together again, forgot to bring the insulation tapes to wrap them, hopp-hopp-hopp along the ridge, down the ladder , ..., sensors dead again. Luckily it's time for a brew, and then night descends and covers everything mercifully in darkness.

And I thought the plumbing bit was the difficult part  faint

Klaus

PS Everything in CAT5 UTP cable, four wires connected to: Gnd, Data, Data_return, +5V. All connections soldered and sheathed in heatshrink, then wheather"proofed" in insulation tape. Pipe sensors around the panel have 5cm long silicon insulated wire tails on before connecting to the CAT5.
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KenB
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« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2009, 10:58:55 PM »

Klaus,

This is a disturbing report.  I wonder how much of the success is attributable to the CAT5  shield for screening,  the twisted pairs or just the full provision of the 4 wires:  +5V, ground, signal and return.


Ken
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KLD
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« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2009, 08:54:19 AM »

So, with 8 wires available in the CAT5 cable, what is the recommended pairing? At the moment I've got Data and Ground in one pair, and +5V with the return Data in the second pair. Are there better solutions, does it matter at all?

Lost
Klaus
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billt
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« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2009, 11:13:36 AM »

I just use one twisted pair for data and ground, parasitic mode. You can choose any other wire for +5V, it won't have any effect on data.

I don't understand your reference to return data. The system uses two wires for data and ground and from the point of view of signal reflections it's important that you don't have odd lengths of wire at random points in the network. So the cable should go direct from the interface to the first sensor and then be looped on to the next sensor. The sensors don't want to be on little spurs and you don't want a random length of wire after the last sensor, if you have those you may get random reflections corrupting the data.

http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/an_pk/148/ gives some detail about 1-wire network topology.
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wyleu
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« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2009, 11:50:53 AM »

One 'standard' used is detailed in this thread:-
http://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6127.30.html
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KLD
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« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2009, 12:36:02 PM »

Sorry, my description wasn't very clear. If you have two directions into which the network expands, say one going to a thermal store, the other towards the panel. then you could run three wires to the TS's first sensor, continue from there with three wires to the next TS sensor, and so on, up to the last TS sensor. How do you get from here to the panel? You could run another length of CAT5 cable from this point to the panel. Or you could utilize another wire in the fist CAT5 cable back to near the controler (or whereever the split into the two directions is) and then continue with the second CAT5 from there. The two directions I intentionally didn't call branches, 'cause electronically they are one continuous strip.

Klaus
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wyleu
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« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2009, 12:42:37 PM »

I've always run one long cable, so in your situation one of the runs would be two cables and I'd probably make the other one two wires to allow future expansion. Put the cables in at the same time it's not much more effort the cables are pretty cheap and you don't have to use it if you don't need to.

I'd avoid splits simply cos the junction is an appalling single point of failure, and then there's all the reflection heartache. Avoid parasitic mode as it will become very 'personalized' as the network grows.
I've managed over 30 metres with 30 sensors driven by hobbyboard bits and pieces and it seems to work.

If you can get it to work then please tell us all, with photo's, blogs, oscilloscope traces and announcements in the local press.
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KLD
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« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2009, 12:51:41 PM »

Sunny morning today, and as soon as the slates had dried off a little I went up the ladder again. Carefully peeling all the heat shrink off I immediately discovered what was wrong: on one of the ground connections the wire had broken off. Duh. I think it was hiccup who repeatedly pointed out that he uses flex wires for this very reason  fight
Well, the cat5 is up there now, and it'll be very difficult to get another cable in. So, I took it all apart, installed a small IP junction box, feed the cables through the glands and soldered it all up again. For the time being it seems to work.

What a silliy error.  Embarrassed
Thank you all for your input!


Klaus
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wyleu
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« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2009, 09:20:16 PM »

I put two sensors up at the hot end of the array, JIC.


JIC = lady wyleu's approach to all things from number of coats warn to tax returns, Just In Case.
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KLD
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« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2009, 09:30:49 PM »

Chris, That'll be for the rare event of temperatures above 125°C, when the two sensors automagically go into series to extend the measurment range?  Cool

Klaus

PS Another pack of T sensors is on order from China  Cheesy
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wyleu
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« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2009, 09:34:20 PM »

Are you saying my arrays have been at 125 degrees C? A condition specifically outlawed by the water regs?

And don't think you ain't getting away without a smite for not telling us all how you do the fancy degrees symbol. fume
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KLD
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« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2009, 10:09:48 PM »

Didn't you follow any of the energy efficiency threads? You want maximum temperature difference anywhere. At least between the sun and your solar coil. Or something similar  tumble And in the unlikely sequence of events that (i) oil runs out, (ii) your batteries have been murdered (ask Eleanor for a how-to?) (iii) JIC, the thermal solar panel will stagnate. And your stashed away secret other stack of batteries powers the 1-wire controller recording unlawfully high temps! But wait, who's knockin' at the door? Quick, they are comming to get you  Grin Grin

Since the government pushes more people towards a degree, symbolically or not, the easiest solution is to get a German keyboard: °°°°°°° 
Can't find the PhD symbol. Do you have one on yours?

Klaus  Cheesy
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SteveH
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« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2009, 10:52:57 PM »

 Are you teasing ?

[Alt] + 0176 (On the Number pad with Num Lock On)

 Like this....      °


ALT+0127 is really usefull....
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Preveli, South Crete.
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« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2009, 10:46:33 AM »

Every day is a school day, today has been no exception.

Alt + 0176 = °, now that is priceless.

I'm going to spend the rest of the day trying to think how to put that into every email that I send to every colleague, customer and supplier.

It's going to be a good day Smiley

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30 tubes, south facing gable wall (Navitron Fornax Trial System).  Hunter Herald 8, integrated boiler hooked up with Oil Boiler via Dunsley Neutraliser.  Scrounging fire wood wherever possible Smiley
myozone
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« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2009, 11:07:51 AM »

type in 'charmap' into Start Run
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