3 Phase Supply

[Solar Sam]

Hi Guys,

I'm thinking of installing a wind turbine and so I'll need a 3 phase supply onto our farm. I have 11kv overhead power lines running a just a few meters away from the farm building where I'd like the the supply but I have no idea what to expect to pay for this. Does anyone have any experience with anything similar?

Many thanks

Sam

[Ted]

Think of a reasonable price, double it then add a zero on the end.

But seriously anything from a few thousand to 10K. The problem being that the DNO have a monopoly.

What size turbine are you looking at?

[Solar Sam]

Think of a reasonable price, double it then add a zero on the end.

But seriously anything from a few thousand to 10K. The problem being that the DNO have a monopoly.

What size turbine are you looking at?

That's what I thought 

I'm planning on a Gaia 133-11kW

[daftlad]

The last quote I heard of was about 10 to 15 years ago. It involved upgrading 5 or 6 11kv poles by putting new tops on them for 3 phase rather than 2 phase and then installing a new transformer and running the LV 75 meters to the farm.
60 grand and that was a while back.
Give them a call but be prepared for a shock, pardon the pun........
ta ta

[climber]

That's what I thought 

I'm planning on a Gaia 133-11kW
[/quote]

Yes, be prepared for a ridiculous quote from the DNO.

Gaia 11KW - good choice! I am an installer for Gaia, have installed most of the existing UK machines, so if you need any advice, just ask.

[Ted]

A planned 16kW hydro scheme in the Brecon Becons is about 50m from an existing 11kV pole.  The DNO have quoted 9K to connect it - that wasn't their first price. It is possible to negotiate from the original quote but you have to know them quite well.

[knighty]

if you're on a farm and have a tractor/digger etc.... you can get it done for cheaper if you dig your own trenches etc...

[Rob in Halstock]

Hi Guys,

I'm thinking of installing a wind turbine and so I'll need a 3 phase supply onto our farm. I have 11kv overhead power lines running a just a few meters away from the farm building where I'd like the the supply but I have no idea what to expect to pay for this. Does anyone have any experience with anything similar?

Many thanks

Sam

Hey rather than paying ridiculous sums of money for a three phase feed to your farm why not just use your existing 240v supply ?. Ohms Law says V=IR and P=IV. So if your Wind Turbine is 11Kw thats only 46A at full power, which is about the same as my US made Electric Cooker range. Most UK properties have a 100A feed to them, farms usualy have more because of the various industrial equipment. However the 46A comming from your turbine is subtractive. So assuuming you have exellent wind and the turbine is operating at full power 100% of the time. If your incomming supply is 100A and you are using 90A on an average basis, by adding the turbine you are actualy reducing your own power draw from the grid down to 44A. If you only use 10A on an average basis then you will be feeding 36A back to the grid. Either way you do not need a costly complex 3 phase upgrade, its just not necesary. An Apropriate 240V Grid Tie inverter would be far more cost effective !!.

Advice by a qualified Electrician & Electrioncs Engineer.

[stephend]

Either way you do not need a costly complex 3 phase upgrade, its just not necesary. An Apropriate 240V Grid Tie inverter would be far more cost effective !!.

This will depend on the power company surely.  I don't know what the UK rules for grid feeding are, but in Germany the phases can't be more than 5kW out of balance.  So if you have an 11kW system, then you need 2 x 5kW inverters fed to 2 different phases, you can't feed all 11kw to the same phase.

[climber]

Hey rather than paying ridiculous sums of money for a three phase feed to your farm why not just use your existing 240v supply ?. Ohms Law says V=IR and P=IV. So if your Wind Turbine is 11Kw thats only 46A at full power, which is about the same as my US made Electric Cooker range. Most UK properties have a 100A feed to them, farms usualy have more because of the various industrial equipment. However the 46A comming from your turbine is subtractive. So assuuming you have exellent wind and the turbine is operating at full power 100% of the time. If your incomming supply is 100A and you are using 90A on an average basis, by adding the turbine you are actualy reducing your own power draw from the grid down to 44A. If you only use 10A on an average basis then you will be feeding 36A back to the grid. Either way you do not need a costly complex 3 phase upgrade, its just not necesary. An Apropriate 240V Grid Tie inverter would be far more cost effective !!.

Advice by a qualified Electrician & Electrioncs Engineer.

Sorry, but you're wrong. I wish you weren't, as the Gaia would be available to even more customers!

The Gaia wind 11KW turbine requires a 3 phase supply - it will not operate on single phase. It connects directly to the grid without inverter(s) - it uses a asynchronous / induction motor/generator. It therefore also requires 3 phase to motor start.

It is designed to comply to G83 i.e. less than 16A per phase.

[daftlad]

Maybe you could own your own transformer? The department store I worked on in central london owned it's own transformers. All you would need provided would be a HV isolator and HV metering.

or

Would it be possible to provide the three phase from a single phase to three phase converter? I know it would imbalance the phases but rural single phase is normally provided from 2 phases of the HV so it wouldn't imbalance it too much?

I guess a chat with Gaia is in order?
ta ta

[climber]

Would it be possible to provide the three phase from a single phase to three phase converter? I know it would imbalance the phases but rural single phase is normally provided from 2 phases of the HV so it wouldn't imbalance it too much?

I guess a chat with Gaia is in order?
ta ta

Gaia are aware of the demand for a machine that operates from a single phase. The existing controller does not operate using a single to three phase convertor - it requires a direct connection to a grid 3 phase supply.

Also, is still doesn't get around the G83 issues - you would be supplying 48A into a single phase at peak power.

[Rob in Halstock]

Hey rather than paying ridiculous sums of money for a three phase feed to your farm why not just use your existing 240v supply ?. Ohms Law says V=IR and P=IV. So if your Wind Turbine is 11Kw thats only 46A at full power, which is about the same as my US made Electric Cooker range. Most UK properties have a 100A feed to them, farms usualy have more because of the various industrial equipment. However the 46A comming from your turbine is subtractive. So assuuming you have exellent wind and the turbine is operating at full power 100% of the time. If your incomming supply is 100A and you are using 90A on an average basis, by adding the turbine you are actualy reducing your own power draw from the grid down to 44A. If you only use 10A on an average basis then you will be feeding 36A back to the grid. Either way you do not need a costly complex 3 phase upgrade, its just not necesary. An Apropriate 240V Grid Tie inverter would be far more cost effective !!.

Advice by a qualified Electrician & Electrioncs Engineer.

Sorry, but you're wrong. I wish you weren't, as the Gaia would be available to even more customers!

The Gaia wind 11KW turbine requires a 3 phase supply - it will not operate on single phase. It connects directly to the grid without inverter(s) - it uses a asynchronous / induction motor/generator. It therefore also requires 3 phase to motor start.

It is designed to comply to G83 i.e. less than 16A per phase.

I disagree, Im not wrong, the principles of Ohms Law will always stand. However it sounds like the Gaia Turbine is a realy poor system and not very user freindly. I would go with somthing else, thats a little more flexiable. Save yourself a lot of cash in the long run.

[Rob in Halstock]

Either way you do not need a costly complex 3 phase upgrade, its just not necesary. An Apropriate 240V Grid Tie inverter would be far more cost effective !!.

This will depend on the power company surely.  I don't know what the UK rules for grid feeding are, but in Germany the phases can't be more than 5kW out of balance.  So if you have an 11kW system, then you need 2 x 5kW inverters fed to 2 different phases, you can't feed all 11kw to the same phase.

I dont think that restriction aplies in the UK, or not to that level at least. Otherwise everytime someone switches on their stove to full power the three phase would be out of ballance and the power company would complain. I have two 80A supplies comming into my home, both on the same phase which the power company installed. Some days im actualy using 120A+, espeacialy if Im doing cooking for the family (Stove, Microwave, Deep Fryer & Kettle) whilst my Wife is also taking a shower under the 10Kw shower unit. Other days we are out and use virtualy nothing at all. So where does that leave the power company if they want to complain about phase ballancing ?. We have never had a single complaint yet !.

[climber]

I disagree, Im not wrong, the principles of Ohms Law will always stand. However it sounds like the Gaia Turbine is a realy poor system and not very user freindly. I would go with somthing else, thats a little more flexiable. Save yourself a lot of cash in the long run.

Obviously I was referring to this statement:

"Either way you do not need a costly complex 3 phase upgrade, its just not necesary. An Apropriate 240V Grid Tie inverter would be far more cost effective !!."

Not to your Ohms Law calculations.

If you know anything about wind turbines, you would know that the Gaia is the best performing/most reliable machine in it's class - far from poor and not user friendly.

What alternative turbine would you reccomend?