DECC penalise early adopters.

[Ivan]

Dear ivan

 

I am writing to you because you signed our campaign last year for equal feed-in tariff rates for existing microgenerators.

 

I’m afraid that the news is not good. The final rates were announced today, and remain at a disappointing 9p per kWh for all microgenerators transferred from the Renewables Obligation. You can read about it in DECC's press release. I will check the small print (which isn’t covered here) to find out the nitty gritty of who is eligible in due course.

 

I will be issuing a press release later to express disappointment, and if you have any opinions that you would like to expressed – or if you would be happy to speak to media about your response – please let me know.

 

I’m sorry to be the bearer of bad news…

 

Best wishes


xxxxxxx

 

[guydewdney]

Big fat hairy backsides.

How do I get 'off' the ROCs scheme then? Then re-register and get it 'certified'

[fje-iptelenet]

And me 2.34 kWp. Any suggestions anyone, within the law but fairness does NOT come into it?
Regards,
Franz

[daftlad]

So the government learn all about grid tie renewables from the innovators (you lot with pv on the roof) and then kick you in the crotch.
******* B*******
ta ta

[Ivan]

Yep, I think you've all got the idea! I think it is pointless and silly. In doing so, they open many loopholes that easily allow you to exploit the system, and I would encourage anyone with an existing PV system to do exactly that. I've outlined two possibilities below. Incidentally, Navitron has an installer lined up for MCS installation and MCS work, so please feel free to contact us if you have MCS requirements (including certification of re-commissioned systems)



OK, here's the process:

1)Firstly, you need to have MCS-approved panels. I'm hoping to get the Yingly 55W, 80W and 110W panels added to the MCS list, but this is likely to take several months.

2)Assuming you've satisfied my first point, you now...at least on paper...decommission your PV system. As far as I can see, it simply needs to be disconnected from the grid for a period of time (how long? Only long enough for my forth point)

3)Inform your DNO/Supplier that on a specified date you will be decommissioning your system.

4)You get a MCS-approved installer to re-commission the system, and to issue an MCS certificate.

5)You write to your DNO/Supplier and inform them that you have installed a new, MCS-approved system, and that it will be active from the day after the date that the previous system was decommissioned.

6)It would make a lot of sense to have a slightly different rated power for the 'new' system - that way, it will avoid potentially being confused with the 'old' system

ALTERNATIVELY:

1)Leave original system alone

2)Install new MCS approved system

3)Reconfigure old system so that it feeds into the Total Generation Meter fitted to the new MCS system.

4)Don't tell anyone.



 

[Ivan]

P.S. Ted's post suggests the DECC are trying to block Method 1 outlined above. There's bound to be an alternative, so as soon as I read the relevant paragraph I'll get back with an alternative.

[fje-iptelenet]

Ivan,
Thank you.
Regards,
Franz,

[guydewdney]

Anyone got an antique water wheel 'rubber' to make it dissapear?

[wookey]

Paras 85 and 86 of http://decc.gov.uk/Media/viewfile.ashx?FilePath=Consultations\Renewable%20Electricity%20Financial%20Incentives\1_20100201131016_e_@@_GovernmentResponsetotheFITsConsultation.pdf&filetype=4 explain that the 9p generated + 3p exported (guaranteed for 25(?) years) is equivalent to 20p/kWh export-only at 50% export:import ratio (except that wasn't guaranteed), and that suppliers who offered good export rates under the old scheme may continue to do so in the future (i.e more than 3p).

So whether people are really being penalised depends on the rate they were getting, and their export ratio. And whether the certainty of a guaranteed rate is worth anything to them. (Is this rate index-linked or not - I haven't worked that out yet). People like CeeBee (high export ratio, Ebico's very good export rate) probably will get less (depending on what export rate is offered). I guess people getting Good Energy's 15p generation tariff will be 3p worse off, unless GE offer extra. People on an export tariff that didn't export much will presumably actually be better off. Anyone on the EDF, Centrica, npower or EON microgeneration schemes will either be better off or the same (according to the rates at http://www.boost-energy.com/boost/UK_microgeneration_export_tariffs.pdf which doesn't seem to be entirely up to date). However I assume that very few people are on those rates because they aren't very good.

[guydewdney]

Not sure how you work out that people like me (3kw gen, low export) who, at the moment get 45p a minute, 'plus' not paying 15p/unit import for my background useage am only going to be 3p / kWh worse off? Their random expectation of 50% export is twaddle. They have basically wiped three grand per annum off my install, and added fifteen years to the payback period..... They are people with unmarried parents.

[Simon]

While understanding the frustration of some existing generators, my newly installed 1.4kWp PV system is going to be even better. I have revised my calculation to take into account the higher FITs and now estimate a simple return of 8.9% index linked. This is based on the inclusion of the £2500 grant (received yesterday  ). Without the grant, the return becomes 6.1%.

Clearly the index linking and tax-free status make this a good investment regardless of any ethical issues. Anyone contemplating an installation ought to get on with it while the grants are still available - free money anyone?

Simon

[StBarnabas]

I have discussed the StB system with Ivan before. I do hope there is some way around this. I'm not sure if my system was installed earlier or later than Simon's, but  naturally pleased other can get good rates and more pleased that some people like Wookey located decent MCS installers to some extent because of my efforts. All the MCS people I contacted wanted £6.00-£7.00 per Wp installed at the start of last  year.

Look forward to hearing Ivan's suggestions and hopefully I can get FITs.

Sean

[EccentricAnomaly]

While understanding the frustration of some existing generators, my newly installed 1.4kWp PV system is going to be even better.

Don't worry, they'll shaft you next time round.

This nonsense confirms my prejudice to have as little to do with the government as the law allows.

[rhys]

I have discussed the StB system with Ivan before. I do hope there is some way around this. I'm not sure if my system was installed earlier or later than Simon's, but  naturally pleased other can get good rates and more pleased that some people like Wookey located decent MCS installers to some extent because of my efforts. All the MCS people I contacted wanted £6.00-£7.00 per Wp installed at the start of last  year.

Look forward to hearing Ivan's suggestions and hopefully I can get FITs.

Sean

Sean
There is a flow chart in the Consultation response dealing with systems installed after July 2009 which are either registered for ROC's or not registered for ROC's. Those not registered for ROC's and also NOT MCS approved must first go through the ROC's process and then transfer to FITS. Does that not cover you position. I.E. MCS not needed for FITS if already installled after July 15th??

[rhys]

Seems to be a distinct oppourtunity for some second hand PV export schemes here.
Must be somwhere in the world where the value of a secondhand system makes it worth decomissioning a pre July 2009 system and selling on to somewhere where Feed in Tarrifs and other incentives are more generous, and less dependant on MCS approval? Spain?
A bit of clever PR and just one system decommissioned, might yet change the attitude to "secondhand systems".
I can see the headlines  "Government Feed in Tariff encourages the decommisioning of PV systems, furious early adopters to sell PV systems around the world rather than be ripped of by the new funding system, that was supposed to encourage installation of photovoltaics - Minister splutters."