Would you start breeding now, given what we know?!?

[dan_aka_jack]

OK, this is an odd question, I admit.  On the surface it looks like a bizarrely personal question to ask on an internet forum but let's just focus on the predictions of the future...  if your partner were keen on starting to have kids now, how worried would you be that it's not rational to breed given that there's strong evidence that the world will get significantly harder to live in within the kid's natural life span?  E.g. climate change, peak oil, peak natural gas, ocean acidification, decreasing availability of fresh water, difficult economic times ahead, possible rolling blackouts on the UK national grid within the next decade, increasing pressure to abandon science and rationality etc etc.

On the positive side, I suppose we can take some solace that the UK is relatively well placed.  Our arable land isn't about the turn to dust (although it might suffer from floods and ingress of salt water) and if we can get CCS to work then we'll have a fair amount of fuel to burn.  But recent research suggests that sea level rise by 2100 might be around 1.4meters - that's not good news for an island like ours.

Plus there's the notion that maybe, just maybe, the kid will play an important role in fixing the problems facing the world.

Any thoughts?!?

[martin]

I see no reason why there should be any question that to have one child is responsible, the arguments start after one...........
Unfortunately we have some very short-sighted thinking - the Chinese have for years "done something about the problem" with their draconian "one child" regime, but are now doing a volte face because of pressure of the burden of keeping the elderly by a shrinking younger population...........

[Greenbeast]

We have no plans to produce offspring.
For me it's part financial/selfish and part population control/dwindling resources based

The other half doesn't care about the bigger picture, she just isn't a big fan of kids

[wyleu]

I was about thirty five and had just emerged from about the millionth discussion with the then current 'partner' as to should we stay together, were we committed or too committed, did we want to be tied down, etc, etc ... The normal rather self absorbed stuff that seems to be a major stock in trade of young couples trying to extend youth well beyond it's normal length.

After reaching two o'clock in the morning and no obvious progress being made and deciding that for that particular evening, it was better if we slept apart, I decided the best thing I could do was go for a walk. It was February and we were staying with a friend in Malvern so the local walk involved an early morning stroll round the snow covered hills.
There were many strange noises as the snow was settling and I ended sitting on a bench near the top of one of the hills and after an hour or so of considerable thought the only purpose I could see to the whole game was children.

I haven't changed my opinion on this. It doesn't mean this is to the exclusion of all other interests and it's not all consuming, but Two kids, and a vasectomy later I have little to doubt that it was my most sensible conclusion.

We effectively split then and she moved onto pastures new. Her sad story ended in her self inflicted death some five years later, where I suspect she arrived at a similar conclusion and was unable to deal with her realisation at forty that she was probably too old mixed in with other mental problems.

The birth of my first born was probably the most emotional moment I've ever experienced and nothing compares to the sense of relief I felt in not being the most important thing in my own life any longer. I wanted to settle at one, but Miss Wyleu ( we married later) very bravely insisted on a second, and althou' there are obvious reasons for restricting the number, the two of them together seems much more balanced than the majority of single children families, ( Sorry, if this offends it's only my opinion).
It's not a case of living throu' the kids, it's just it gives us some sense of ongoing fulfilment . I know how easy it is to look at the future and despair, but Life is a miraculous process. To consider one's own consciousness is a staggering process to have emerged from a little bit of thermodynamics and time and to decide not to have kids when you can is not something that you might agree with when you are older. Our opinions seem able to change at a rate we cannot discern, and to fill your later days with unacknowledged regret based on a decision of your youth is a sadness in itself.

Selfish, probably, but I would counter with my life taking a green turn as a result of consideration of our future rather than the consumer driven indulgence I would probably still be 'enjoying' if it wasn't for that cold Malvern bench.

[pottsiwebber]

Given what all of us know we should all have kids if we can. The privilege of being a sentient lifeform in the universe is something so wonderful I cant imagine not wanting to give that gift to another. Parenting is the hardest, infuriating, stressful, joyful most rewarding thing I have ever done. Nothing comes close so go get yah freak on.

[daftlad]

I am not convinced that we will get through the current and future problems unscathed, maybe we are all toast as Martin would say?
For that reason I have no plans for kids, but funnily I would quite like to get involved with someone who already has them, or even adopt?
ta ta

[Amy]

Nope, nope and errr, no way Jose'

Practice making them is permitted though 

[northern installer]

Daftlad,stop it,we are not going to be toast,we may have to adapt,even lose some of our luxuries,but the human race is not going to abruptly end ! bearing in mind the fact that ,as you go higher up the social scale,the birth rate is in inverse proportion,don't we owe it to ourselves to leave some kind of intelligent legacy? or is that being presumptuous!
One or two children per couple would seem to be a reasonable level of breeding.
Amy,practice is good,but the real thing is immensely satisfying !

[dan_aka_jack]

Excellent replies - lots to think over.  The general mood seems to be positive.

Wow, Wyleu - that was one of the most heart-felt, honest and well written posts I think I've ever read on an internet forum.  Thank you!

[alank]

I do not see one or two kids as a problem - but with the worlds (and countries!) resources running out it seems strange we have a benefits system that provides more reward for more kids

[desperate]

One Microdesp is enough for any self respecting planet
Seriously though for a long time we thought we couldn't, or were very unlikely to have kids, and that was fine until I was about 42-3 ish, then I bottled it more so than Mrs Desp and the thought of never having any kids was quite frightening. When she got pregnant 3 years later I was dumbfounded/overjoyed.
While the population level is a huge problem, it is also a problemn to reduce a population without the economy going into a tailspin, and if we are to stand any chance of managing the climate issues the last thing we need is another world recession, so yes If I had my time again I think it is as good a time as any to have kids.

Desperate

[Mudman]

Here's a thought:
anybody born to someone on this forum is likely to aquire a better appreciation than their average peers of living within environmental limits and making your own contribution to living on the planet. These are attitudes- and they might also have the practical skills- which will be desperately needed by everybody in their generation- and they could lead the way in teaching the majority. In this way you might conclude that having a few children is good for future society and therefore for the planet not necessarily bad. Of course, one can't be certain that such attitudes get accepted by the offspring of course, but most kids would still have picked up a lot along the way.

Wyleu, thank you very much for your post. greatly appreciated. I had a moment about three years ago when deciding my half of the now or wait question and suddenly firmly decided that considering that I'm a human and lots of the human experience is about producing and bringing up children, we should go ahead sooner rather than later and take what comes.
So far it's been great- very fulfilling - and we've made sure the little one's carbon footprint is miniscule, but i appreciate that's not quite the question that's being posed here which is more about the life long effect.

[camillitech]

I was fortunate/unfortunate enough to have environmentally aware parents, fortunate because it gave me a healthy if not frugal lifestyle where we would trail up mountains instead of going to Butlins. Unfortunate because I was deprived of much of the cr4p that kids of my age had and craved.

At the tender age of 16 in the grip of an oil crisis and impending 'peak oil' (1972  ) and two years into a 22 year long relationship we decided not to bring any children into this world that was doomed, after all my dad who I greatly respect said it was inevitable ( he's still saying now at 82 )

It was probably a combination of his preaching and the first hand experience of the 'oil tap' being turned off that set me on the course to 'futureproofing' not by buying the latest technological gizmo or running extra cables to my TV but by moving 'off grid' and becoming more self sufficient.

Personally I don't think the world will go tits up, just like I don't believe walking under a ladder is bad luck. I just think it's good sense to be prepared and I am so glad that I have my own son now to pass this on to 

Don't deprive yourself of the joy of children because you think it's your duty as a good citizen when half the planet is breeding like rabbits. Buy a house on hill, facing south, with a stream a wood and bit of land, by the sea but at least 50m above it 

Then have as many kids as you like and they can look after you as civilization crumbles 

Seriously though, I never started  getting 'broody' until I hit 40 so don't do anything stupid :-)

Good luck, Paul

[guydewdney]

SWMBO is getting fat as we type..... 

There were questions - but we decided that what was the point of life, if not to pass it on? Still a bit scary to see that little grey blob on the screen.

[billi]

late daddy here as well  , thought a lot about it not to have children , forgot about these thoughts the last years , and bingo       

Wow  awesome ,