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Author Topic: Is diesel dead?  (Read 3004 times)
martin
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« on: February 06, 2010, 06:51:22 PM »

from today's Torygraph

"The scrappage scheme has highlighted the benefits of small, cheap petrol engines. We examine the facts behind the predicted demise of diesel.

Nasty oily stuff or thrifty saviour? Until fairly recently, you might have said that UK buyers were coming around to the second view.

In Europe, diesel's share of the new passenger car market has grown from 25 per cent to more than 50 per cent during the past decade, but in Britain, from a lower base, growth has been even faster during the same period (from 15 per cent to 43 and a bit).

In recent months, though, Britain's love affair with diesel has lost its ardour. The latest registration figures show that January-October sales last year dropped by almost 16 per cent compared with 2008, down from 832,200 to 700,131. As a proportion of the total market, diesel has fallen from 43.3 per cent in 2008 to 41.5 per cent last year.

Small percentages, yes, but big numbers. It's a trend that is also replicated in Europe, where during the past 12 months diesel's overall market share has fallen from about 52 per cent to less than 46 per cent. Even in Belgium, which has Europe's largest diesel penetration, market share has dropped by almost four per cent.

So what has happened? Does this change mark the end of diesel's European conquest? There are several contributing factors to what initially appears to be the demise of diesel.

Small petrol engines

According to the official explanation, Britain's scrappage scheme has favoured petrol sales and there is a fair amount of evidence to support this.

The latest figures for UK new-car registrations reveal a rise of 31.6 per cent, the fourth consecutive month of growth, but almost all of this was down to the general public (rather than fleet managers).

To date, most of the 330,000-plus scrappage opportunists have bought small cars – and these tend to have petrol engines because diesels are more expensive and elevate prices to uncompetitive levels.

Diesel also yields smaller economy and durability benefits in a small, lightweight car that tends to do fewer miles than the national average. Simply put, scrappage favours small cars and small cars favour petrol engines.

Price

There's also the price question. Diesel is more expensive in Britain than it is in mainland Europe: that is partly a function of UK tax, partly supply and demand. In fiscal terms the UK Treasury has treated diesel and petrol fairly equally, so diesel does not yield the same big savings and fast paybacks as it does on the continent.

Taxation and additional refining costs increased the gap between petrol and diesel to 10 per cent in 2008, but it has since settled back to parity (or, at most, a few pence).

There are also new EU emissions regulations that mean diesel engines require a load of extra equipment to reduce pollutants such as oxides of nitrogen and particulates.

This is estimated to cost manufacturers as much as £1,000 per car to meet EU VI requirements and they are ill disposed towards absorption of such stipends.

These specification changes also reduce diesels' refinement and render them less reliable.

Honest John regularly carries letters about the failure of dual-mass flywheels on diesel cars, which can cost up to £1,500 to put right.

Turbos, particulate filters, glow plugs, exhaust-gas recirculation valve and injection pump failures are becoming more common, and are often caused in part by wrong fuelling with petrol, which causes long-term unseen damage to diesel engines and their ancillaries.

Supply

Then there's the shortage of supply itself. In a typical 35-gallon barrel of light, sweet crude oil there are about 16 gallons of petrol, 8.5 gallons of diesel, 3.4 gallons of jet fuel and 8.5 gallons of heavy fuel oil, liquefied petroleum gases and other products. However, that's based on American usage.

All these distillates can go through further refining stages to be converted into each other, but it costs money and time.

There was an illustration of diesel supply shortages last year at the point where crude oil hit almost $150 a barrel. Various members of the Opec oil-producing group admitted that they were struggling to sell all their output in this so-called "shortage".

Part of the reason for this apparent anomaly was that most of this Middle Eastern oil was ill suited for diesel production and that's what Europe wanted.

That it also suggested the unprecedented $150 price was entirely driven by speculation in the market is another matter altogether.

Delivery

Britain's North Sea oil is also ill suited for diesel production, which is why we import about 10 per cent of our diesel and jet fuel and Europe as a whole exports about 39 million tons of surplus petrol to the US. Crude oil suitability is not really the entire issue, nor are refining shortages, either.

"It's more a case of what UK refineries can squeeze out of their current configuration," says Nick Vandervell of the UK Petroleum Industry Association (UKPIA).

Most of Europe's refining capacity is getting long in the tooth and was set up largely to create petrol. It's now finding that it is squeezing more diesel out of equipment ill suited to the task, which is proving highly energy intensive.

In fact, squeezing that last drop of diesel is tipping the whole carbon-dioxide well-to-wheels equation into the negative compared with refining petrol. "In CO2 terms, there's not a lot between the two," says Chris Hunt of UKPIA.

Environment

In other words, because getting that extra diesel is more expensive and energy intensive, your diesel car might not be doing the environment any benefit at all.

One solution might be further investment in hydrogen cracking facilities to get more diesel, jet fuel and gas oil out of a barrel of crude, but that costs about £800 million per refinery.

The balance has just about worked up to now, but there is something of a crisis headed our way in the next 12 months, which is the result of the US's success in switching domestic consumers to corn-based bioethanol.

"Now with the US nearing a refining balance with their ethanol, there's going to be a whole load of surplus petrol sitting in the mid-Atlantic and there will be casualties," Hunt says.

Casualties are likely to include small "mom-and-pop" refineries on the Gulf of Mexico and those unwilling to make the required investments in diesel production in Europe.

It would be premature to be calling it the death of diesel, but one thing the scrappage scheme has done is highlight the limits of diesel's growth.

In supply and regulatory terms it would be hard for diesel to take much more of the market than it does today without getting a whole lot more expensive and presumably unattractive.

Diesel isn't dead, but it isn't likely to grow much, either"
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noelsquibb
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« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2010, 11:33:32 PM »

Good article. Thank you Martin.

Ive been a diesel burner for the last 10 years but have to agree they are getting worringly complex and expensive.


noel
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mmmmm,  gravy
martin
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« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2010, 11:44:46 PM »

I've just "swapped back" to petrol, and effectively at least halved my fuel consumption from my oil-burner (gone for a far smaller, simpler vehicle), and am rediscovering the joys of driving again. Sick and fed up with the cost of maintaining diesels, the pong, and the sheer "agricultural" nature of the older ones Wink
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« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2010, 11:53:59 PM »

The road tax in Ireland now favours diesel engines instead of petrol  engines so except for small cars  there probably won't be any petrol engined new cars.   Diesel is now cheaper than petrol again in Ireland and VAT is recoverable for registered businesses.     It used to be said about diesel cars that you made a triple saving, more mpg, cheaper fuel and  they were so rotten to drive you didn't go as far.  
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« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2010, 10:22:44 AM »

According to the table, diesel now costs more than petrol in France, which is a nuisance, as I use my diesel van quite a lot across the Channel. You are quite right about the scrappage scheme. I've just bought a petrol-powered Mazda and the price differential to purchase a diesel version wasn't justified. New cars are expensive enough even with the scrappage. I would have preferred a diesel. It would have simplified things when filling up, as I have two other oil-burners. By the way, I've been a bit disappointed with the diesel consumption on my Volvo S80 D5 - 32mpg around town. Don't yet know what it will do on a long trip, though, hopefully a lot more, otherwise it will have to go. I think diesel will soon be dead. German manufacturers (and others) are busy developing fuel cells and lithiun-ion powered vehicles - Smart fortwo electric drive and B-class F-cell, to name a couple. Maybe this is the way forward? British manufacturers take note! Yes, I know, it's almost too late for British manufacturing but I'm sure there must be some company out there still making electric milk floats, or do we import those too?

International Petrol Prices : January 2010
Surveyed in January (avg. retail price per litre)
Euro Zone Price Comparisons
Country    Unleaded    Diesel
Austria    1.14    1.05
Belgium    1.34    1.05
Finland    1.36    1.07
Germany    1.38    1.18
Greece    1.06    0.98
Netherlands    1.50    1.14
Italy    1.32    1.24
Luxembourg    1.11    0.91
Spain    1.06    0.98
France    1.32    1.36
Portugal    1.15    0.96
Slovenia    1.16    1.10
International Price Comparisons
   Local Currency per litre    Euro Cent per litre
Country    Currency    Unleaded    Diesel    Unleaded    Diesel
Sweden    Swedish Krona    12.56    11.82    1.24    1.17
Estonia    Kroons    16.10    15.85    1.03    1.01
Latvia    Lats    0.70    0.67    0.98    0.94
Lithuania    Litas    3.60    3.02    1.04    0.88
Slovakia    Koroan    1.18    1.14    1.18    1.14
Switzerland    Swiss Franc    1.61    1.66    1.09    1.13
GB    Sterling    1.12    1.14    1.27    1.29
USA*    US Dollars    0.72    0.76    0.52    0.55
Northern Ireland    Pound Sterling    1.12    1.14    1.27    1.29
Norway    Norwegian Krone    12.10    10.90    1.48    1.34
Poland    Zloty    4.42    4.07    1.09    1.00
Hungary    Forint    320.00    295.00    1.18    1.09
Czech Republic    Czech Koruna    29.40    27.50    1.13    1.06
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dimengineer
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« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2010, 10:20:16 PM »

Personnally I really love diesels. Modern Turbo diesels are just so much nicer to drive than petrol cars. I've had diesels  for about 12 years now, and whenever I have to drive a petrol car , I really hate it - they are so gutless
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tony.
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« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2010, 10:42:38 PM »

i like diesels, maybe its the particular model thats put you off diesels.

65+mpg no problem

tony
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Stuart
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« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2010, 11:23:07 PM »

My Dad has a petrol van now, and it makes sense to him as he does less miles and there cheaper to buy in the first place.

Personally I dislike driving petrols, the only ones with any guts have poor MPG. I do lots of miles and am probably 15 - 20 MPG better off, And my road tax is cheaper.
And if i need to i can tow something without burning up the clutch.
I'll have a diesel anyday, after all its not just diesel they can run on.  Grin



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« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2010, 09:01:30 AM »

Another one here who moved from a Diesel van to a small petrol car.  To be frank the 50hp van was much better to drive around Cornwall due to all the hills but on a long run I would have the car now.  Advised MPG is no where near real life, even with hyper mile techniques I am unable to get the MPG figures put out by the government.  Modern diesel engines are amazing but they are complicated, I long for the day I could buy a new car with a direct injection cable diesel engine.  One good thing to come out of the EU regulations is that lots of older diesel cars will not meet the new regulations and so are being sold of cheap!

Modern 3 cylinder, 12 valve, turbo petrol cars are getting there mind.

Good report, overall diesel is not dead, its reached the top and had to stop until production veggie models are common place I doubt diesel will progress further.   
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« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2010, 09:44:19 AM »

At least with diesel you can grow your own oil seed rape  for an independent supply.  1 tonne of oil seed rape produces about 350 ltrs of bio diesel.
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desperate
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« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2010, 11:36:28 AM »

Or Algae, seems like a promising source

Desp
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dimengineer
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« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2010, 12:52:45 PM »

What I meant to add before my laptop battery died, is that Diesels are fundamentally more efficient than Petrol engines, because of their inherently better thermodynamic efficieincy. They do extract about 25% or so more energy out of a kg of hydrocarbon fuel than a petrol engine.
However, It would appear that once you get to the level of sophistication of modern diesels, and their requirment for ultra clean fuel, the overal energy equation is not so clear cut.
It will be interesting (in the long run) to see which wins - bioethanol (petrol engine derived) or biodiesel (diesel engine derived). My money would be on bioethanol from sugar cane in the low latitudes and biodiesel elsewhere.
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« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2010, 01:59:18 PM »

It will be interesting (in the long run) to see which wins - bioethanol (petrol engine derived) or biodiesel (diesel engine derived). My money would be on bioethanol from sugar cane in the low latitudes and biodiesel elsewhere.

I think that's got more to do with what can be grown and converted to fuel more easily (answer, nearly always veg oils to biodiesel imo) than what cars people want to drive.  Especially as biodiesel / ethanol can be burned in most standard diesel / petrol engines without significant changes.   

Anyway, in the long run I'm convinced we'll be using electricity for surface transport - though possibly biofuel hybrids for a few specific applications.
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dhaslam
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« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2010, 03:07:31 PM »

England cannot be self sufficient in biofuel or anywhere near it.  3.95 persons per hectare and growing.   To have anything like  self sufficiency  there has to be a much  changed attitude to solar,  wind and tidal energy and this means using electric cars.       

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/2967374/England-is-most-crowded-country-in-Europe.html
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desperate
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« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2010, 04:36:37 PM »

I also don't think it is a case of which technology wins out, we need vast amounts of all of them if we are not going to go down the Nuclear or CCS route, and even then we are probably going to be forced to use a certain amount of both.

Desperate
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