FITs for a "pioneer"

[moorwind]

Hello all. I've just been trying to find out some info on FITs and am now completely overwhelmed (or underwhelmed) by the complexity of it all, but I did at least discover this forum, and thought I'd try seeking some advice.
In Feb 2000 we installed a Proven 2.5KW wind turbine with a Trace inverter. We were off-grid at the time, and although we were connected about 3 years ago (thanks to a local funding scheme) we have never exported to the mains or been involved in ROCs or anything. Our surplus is negligible, as where we live any spare power generated is usually very welcome to provide extra heat, and we're experts on doing the washing on windy days etc.
However, if I understand correctly, from April 1st we would be eligible for 9p/KWh for everything we generate, but to do this we would need to get an Ofgem accredited meter fitted and approved by 31st March. Sounds simple, but the Ofgem accreditation sounds like it might not be. In addition, we're not sure if we would need to replace our Trace with a new inverter.
Have I read the situation correctly, is anybody else in a similar situation, and does anybody have any advice? Have we left it all too late?

[Ted]

Hello and welcome.

Yes, you pretty much have read it right. Any system that was installed before 15th July 2009 can only get 9p/kWh and then only if you are registered with OFGEM for ROCs before 1st April 2010.  Failing to do this you will get nothing from FITs or ROCs.

To qualify for ROCs you need to have an approved total generation meter installed - see the list at http://www.nmo.bis.gov.uk/fileuploads/Schedule_4_-_21st_January_2010.pdf  Whether any of these is suitable for your system as it stands I don't know. Generally they are all 230V AC, but there was some talk about approving DC meters a while ago. You could try contacting NMO to ask if you need one.

New off-grid systems installed after 15th July will qualify for the full FIT rate, but the metering requirements for this have not yet been published.

It's a mess.

(Oh, you could just buy an ISKRA ME100 on ebay, tell OFGEM that is your meter, and fit it at some later time)

edit - just looked and there are no ME100s at the moment - get a ME160 instead. You would buy one that has been zeroed, of course, cough.

[moorwind]

Thanks for the reply, Ted.
I've registered with Ofgem and started to complete the accreditation application, so I know now what information they need.
Thinking about the metering problem....the Trace inverter works in such a way that both the DC input from the wind, and also power from the mains, come in through the inverter, which then uses firstly the wind power to supply the house, and tops it up with power from the mains when needed.  A DC meter would thus be needed to directly measure the power generated by the wind.
However, an AC meter (such as the ones on eBay) could be attached to the output from the inverter which would measure the total electricity used. If we then used the meter reading for our mains supply to tell us how much of this came via the mains, we could then calculate how much of the electricity we used had been generated by ourselves.
Would this be acceptable?

[moorwind]

Well, I've got the meters, filled in and sent off the OFGEM form and got an acknowledgement, and I'm waiting to hear if we've been accepted for ROCs.

In the meantime, I'm wondering how we will claim our FITs, assuming we're accepted. I gather that people who export electricity to the grid get them through their supplier, but how will people who are only claiming for the power they generate and use themselves (whether on or off grid) get their payments?   

Will it all magically happen through OFGEM on April 1st, or do we need to do something else?

Pauline

[Ted]

The FITs payments will come via your supplier. You will need to notify them that you are FITs eligible if they don't already know but the details of exactly what is needed hasn't been published yet by most suppliers. There is no need to panic as the deadline for sorting it is October.

[moorwind]

Thanks, Ted.
It will be interesting to see how it all works out (if it does!).

[bottleveg]

Maybe a stupid Q but I’m finding the FIT’s ext confusing.
Do I actually need to be producing electricity at the time of registration?
I’ve only recently bought my Lister generator so I have nothing more than a machine that will produce electricity from used vegetable oil. I can buy a total generation meter and send the serial number but do I need more?

[linesrg]

Good Evening,
Forgive me as I lose track of which thread I've previously posted on assorted subjects. I'm currently at work offshore and my wife has just scanned me a letter from MP Malcolm Bruce with a copy of the reply he received to my query regarding FITs and my particular set-up. I have read the reply from the Rt. Hon. Lord Hunt of Kings Heath OBE several times and what he appears to state in the second last paragraph seems to contradict what appears to be a common understanding of how existing systems added to post July 2009 will be treated.
However in case I am misreading it I will attempt to attach both scans for others to read and see if how they interpret what is being said.
I've struggled to get both pages uploaded in this one post so may have to split them.
I read it that my entire system will be eligible for FIT payments???
Regards
Richard

[JohnS]

My interpretation is that it all gets FITs.  The original bit at the 9p rate and the new bit at the 41.3p rate provided that the original installation gets in via the ROC to FIT route and the new bit is an MCS approved install.

John

[linesrg]

JohnS,

Now I re-read it (again) I see you're right, that particular paragraph is not written as well as it might be.

Regards

Richard

[Ted]

There is still no clarity around the issue of metering in this case though. My understanding was that additional capacity, added after the lapse of 12 months or more, needed a separate meter in order to be treated as a separate system on the higher tariff.  In other words there is no allowance for you to have a single total generation meter and claim 25%, say, of the reading at 9p and 75% at 41p. And a separate meter would really mean a separate inverter as well, so you would have two quite distinct systems, even if the panels adjoined on the same roof.

[JohnS]

Correct me if I am wrong please.

Won't an additional installation need a new inverter in most cases.  Unless the inverter is presently over sized and working at a low capacity, add ing panels may take it out of its safe operational range.  I know my inverter could not take another panel without going over the Voc safe limit.  I appreciate that some inverters could take a second string which could change the situation.

Would one be allowed two total generation meters at the inveter end of the cable from the inveters to the distribution board?  This would save installing a second cable down from tha attic to the board.  Or does the DNO/supplier expect to be able to read the meter without climbing to the attic (all proper stairs, no loft ladders)?

John

[linesrg]

John,

I would think a 'new' install would need a seperate inverter/ generation meter myself, I can't think how else you would seperately meter any addition unless an agreement could be reached to split the total production on a percentage basis as previoulsy mentioned.

Regards

Richard

[Justme]

John,

I would think a 'new' install would need a seperate inverter/ generation meter myself, I can't think how else you would seperately meter any addition unless an agreement could be reached to split the total production on a percentage basis as previoulsy mentioned.

Regards

Richard

As elec companies already charge on that basis I dont see why they cant do it that way.
(IE they will split the units used when a price change happens mid bill, plus they charge £x for the first few units & £y for the rest)

[JohnS]

John,

I would think a 'new' install would need a seperate inverter/ generation meter myself, I can't think how else you would seperately meter any addition unless an agreement could be reached to split the total production on a percentage basis as previoulsy mentioned.

Regards

Richard

Richard,

My real question was where would the second meter have to be.  Could there be two meters at the inveters end of the cable linking to the distribution board, thus allowing one cable, or do they have to be near the distribution board thus requiring two cables.

I may be able to up grade by system from 2.1 to 3.8 or 4 kWp but would need planning permission although if the new permitted developments for wales allowing panels on flat roofs are introduced to England, I might not.  It would be much easier if we could use the same cable.  The existing one that the installers put in is 4mm SWA.  They use SWA on the basis that even an idiot is unlikely to spur off it.

John