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Author Topic: Help with wiring on Xantrex charge controller  (Read 2471 times)
Wingnut
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« on: August 02, 2011, 04:57:51 PM »

Hi Folks,

Can anyone help me?

Can you tell me if it is wrong to wire a Xantrex C60 in dump controll mode as per the drawing?  (person has scrimped on connections and made the joins at the regulator) Does it make any difference that the wires from the wind turbine are joined at the controller and not at the battery?

The Xantrex constantly dumping current and discharging the batteries, the wind turbine is a Futurenergy 24V 1000W, everything on the install is new.  My thinking is that the charger is sensing the current coming from the turbine as the higher voltage not from the batteries, allthough it is connected to the batteries at the regulator.

An easy answer would be to change it and find out, unfortunately the person who owns this setup is several hundred kilometeres away and is insisting the regulator is at fault.


Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.


Wingnut


* Xantrex C60 wired as dump controller.JPG (123.88 KB, 640x480 - viewed 847 times.)
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biff
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« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2011, 06:26:04 PM »

its turbine charging directly into the battery,and the c60 set in divert mode..divert to dump.
    the set up such as you described has been tried and cried for, your friend will be lucky to get away without crocking his turbine and frying his c60,all it will take is a decent force 8 and he will have to replace the lot.
    check back a few posts under russ-fae and you will see what i mean. we all make mistakes. Cry
                                                                                             good luck,, biff
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Wingnut
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« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2011, 07:04:53 PM »

Hi Biff

Thanks for your response.


I checked the previous post you mentioned, and I am not too sure what info to take from it, he mentiones a diagram which is not shown and there is a diagram of the Tristar wiring, which is not the same as the Xantrex wiring.

Are you saying that the wiring diagram my friend sent me is incorrect and the wind turbine should be wired directly to the batteries and not coupled at the controller with the battery wires?

Thanks

Wingnut
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EccentricAnomaly
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« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2011, 08:26:45 PM »

Biff, that previous thread was so confusing it'd be better to stay clear of it, I think. Can you explain directly why the circuit as shown at the top of this thread would be a problem?

Surely the C60 can dump up to about 1600 W (60 A at 27 V) which should deal with most of the power from the turbine even in some pretty bracing conditions. Any extra power can be put down as this month's equalization charge, can't it?

As far as I can see from the C60 manual it, unlike the Morningstar TriStar, doesn't have a battery sense input. Therefore, the setup as shown here would suffer from the controller seeing the battery voltage +/- any voltage drop in the battery leads and fuses. This might cause it to stop the charging process a bit early (because it thinks the battery voltage is a small amount higher than it actually is). However, once it starts dumping there will be less current flowing into the battery and so this effect will be smaller. If the turbine was connected directly to the batteries (or if the controller had battery sense leads) then this wouldn't be a problem even at high charge currents.
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biff
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« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2011, 12:40:06 AM »

 hi ed, i think russ origionally wired his turbine directly to the controller and then onto the batts,i had done the same with a 600watt x 24volt setup using a xantrex c35, the turbine survived ok but the c35 got damaged,it was,nt untill russ started asking questions that finally the penny dropped, i should have had the turbine charging straight into the batts and the c35 in divert to dump or load mode.
 i had been used to the chinese controllers which accepted the 3phase directly into the controller ,most of which already had big resistors(dump load) fitted and could handle surges quite well.
 oddly enough,it was this 600 x 24volt turbine that gave us the biggest headache no matter what kind of controller we tried untill we corrected the wiring on the xantrex.
                                                                                biff
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« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2011, 12:51:49 AM »

it would not surprise me in the least,to find that i have got it wrong once more,however i think the gist of it is as follows,
      if the xantrex controller is placed between the battery and the turbine it can handle most winds around force 6, but once the force 8 begins to blow continious then the resistance from the battery and the amps coming in from the turbine will prove too much of a load for the controller and over a period of time it will heat up and cook the circuit,on the other hand if the turbine is rectified and run directly into the battery and the controller is used to divert the extra energy away to a heater or some other load then the battery itself acts as a kind of buffer absorbing the brunt of the charge coming from the turbine.
          h,mmmmmmm i will probely get a big duckegg(negative correction mark) for this theory,
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Wingnut
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« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2011, 08:19:13 AM »

Hi Biff,EccentricAnomaly ,

Thanks for the input, Biff I think you are correctish, just have to figure out why. not sure what duck have to do with it!

 In my case the dump load is being activated around 24.5 volts (this probably being the battery voltage at the time). The regulator has been returned to Xantrex to be tested.


My questionable theory is that if you make the connections at the regulator not at the batteries the regulator senses the incoming voltage from the windturbine, in this case a FE 24V 1000 at a voltage beyond the set point of the regulator and begins the dump process never allowing the batteries to charge. (as you said Biff)

However, if you wire the turbine to the batteries directly as suggested in the wiring diagram from  Xantrex  the batteries will hold down the voltage (assuming they are not fully charged).   

The question is, does wiring the turbine and batteries at the controller have this effect? and if so why? After all it is wired to the batteries, all be it in a corner cutting fashion. 

Wingnut

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Iain
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« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2011, 08:32:49 AM »

Hi
What size cable are you using to link everything? If the cable between the controller and the battery is undersized there will be a volt drop in it when the system is charging, so the controller Will be at a slightly higher voltage than the battery. If there is a bad or high resistance connection between the controller and battery the same will happen,IE higher voltage at the controller than at the battery. Your dump voltage seems very low as well. At a guess it should be at least 27/28v. Others will have a better dump voltage setting.
Iain
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« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2011, 08:58:06 AM »

Hi Iain,

Thanks for the response, you might have something here, correct connections, wire size will play a part in this.
Not too sure of the cable size as I only have a photo to go on, looks like 16mm.

 I never made the drawing,  not too sure why this was written on the drawing, the turbine owner has had it explained that the float voltage should be around 28V and the bulk 29V, but I have suggested he contact the battery supplier for the exact info.

The hard part of this for me is that I can not visit the install and everything is being done in a second language.

I think lots of people have problems with getting to grips with the setting on the Xantrex controllers.

Thanks


Wingnut

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EccentricAnomaly
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« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2011, 09:10:44 AM »

Another thing to do would be to check the voltage drop on the cables between the controller and the battery when the turbine is generating a significant amount of power but the controller is not yet dumping (i.e., the batteries are not full). It'll likely be a bit under 100 mV (millivolts, i.e., about 1 tenth of a volt) for each metre distance (two metres of cable). A little bit more distance than normal or poor contacts anywhere (e.g., in the fuses) could cause a really significant difference between what the battery voltage actually is and what the controller thinks it is.
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biff
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« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2011, 09:19:34 AM »

the pods in the xantrex are adjustable,the dump load voltage can be set lower or higher than normal,however 24.5volt is much too low for dump and will without doubt damage the batteries.float should be a multiple of 13volts in the case of a 24volt system it is 26volt. bulk can be adjusted as high as 29.9 and dump mode should kick in about 28.4volt.
    the above is only an approx,the bigger the bank the more energy you have to stuff into it,i turn the bulk up to the limit when i am charging forklift batts,they can take almost anything you throw at them.on smaller sealed lead acid banks i go by the book settings.
 "duckeggs" was a term used to denote a negative correction mark,it was a big oval with a red cross through it over the offending exercise answer,we called them duckeggs and our mams would say,,"dear oh dear,!! tell your teacher we have quite gone off duckeggs."it was tough love when you were only 8yrs old at school.
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Justme
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« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2011, 09:32:52 AM »

Unless the cables are very under sized & the turbine working flat out wiring it as you have should still work.

I have a 120 amp charger & an 80 amp solar charger feeding into my bank. The 120 amp uses 120mm2 CSA for the full 1.2m each way & the 80amp starts in 40mm2 CSA for about 0.8m then joins the 120mm2 CSA for about 1m. I see very very low V drop over the all the cables even when fully loaded. Oh & each feed goes via its own 100mv shunt as well.
(The 120mm2 CSA was used for the discharge loading of up to 300amps)


Check for high resistance in all joints.

Is the battery OK? It could be going high V to quickly & causing the dump to activate almost instantly. Does he charge it via other sources?

Can you alter the voltage set points of the controller? The dump point you have is far far to low.

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Wingnut
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« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2011, 03:13:42 PM »



Thanks I will pass the info on, as per previous post, I have no idea why the set points were written on the paper, the set points of 28V float and 29V bulk were used. This cant be too low.  biff, I agree with cracking the bulk up as high as possible on big battery banks as the problem is allways not enough charging, seldom too much charging

could be a bad battery bank, that is worth checking

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