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Author Topic: How to insulate walls which lack cavities?  (Read 21716 times)
Flamethrower_
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« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2008, 07:39:30 PM »

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     How to insulate walls which lack cavities?
on: January 31, 2008, 01:15:40 PM Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It turns out our 1905 house has no cavities in the exterior walls.  What are our options for adding insulation to the walls?

In particular, we're about to re-build our bathroom.  Is there a thin* material I could cover the walls in which would significantly improve the walls' insulation?

* By "thin" I mean no thicker than plasterboard.

Jack,



Have you heard of Sempatap Thermal Insulation its been used in the UK for the last 15 years by Local Authorities and Housing Associations specifically on cold solid walls

www.mgcltd.co.uk

info call 020 8337 0731

email info@mgcltd.co.uk

Regards

Rob
« Last Edit: March 23, 2008, 07:44:43 PM by Flamethrower_ » Logged
daftlad
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« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2009, 01:06:50 PM »

i would seriously lood at what stbarnabus is on about.
it is very thin and as i am aware it out performs other insulations by a lot i think it can be equivelent to 10 inch of rockwool!!!!!, but it does need 20 to 25 mm of airgap on either side so 50 mm total.
it isnt that expensive if you are only doing a single room to start, it was stupidly expensive when it first came out.

also easy to do, screw battons to wall, staple blanket stuff to battons, tape up joins, more battons and then screw plasterboard to battons

not sure about condensation issue???

if i was to use kingspan i would use kingspan backed plasterboard and "dot and dab" it to the wall.

again not sure about condensation issue?

good luck and laters
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dan_aka_jack
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« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2009, 10:53:09 AM »

Thanks loads for the replies.

Sempatap is better than nothing but it really isn't to be recommended.  This is for several reasons:

The main reason is that 5mm of Sempatap applied to a solid wall doesn't improve the thermal performance of the wall anywhere near enough to satisfy Part L1b of the building regs.  An uninsulated 9" solid wall has a U-value of 2.1 W/m2/K.  After applying 5mm of sempatap, the U-value drops to 1.82 W/m2/K.  Building Regs say that if the U-value of the existing wall is above 0.7 W/m2/K and if you're modifying more than 25% of the wall then you have to achieve a U-value of 0.35 W/m2/K or lower.

In terms of conductivity, Sempatap actually underperforms mineral wool.  Mineral wool has a conductivity of 0.038 W/mK whilst sempatap has a conductivity of 0.068 W/mK.  In other words, 5mm of Sempatap will provide as much insulation as 2.8mm of mineral wool.  Not much!

Personally, I'm planning to glue 70mm of Kingspan K17 directly to my 9" solid walls to achieve a U-value of a little under 0.3 W/m2/K.  After modification, my walls will leak heat at a 7th the rate at which uninsulated solid walls leak (0.30 x 7 = 2.1).
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wookey
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« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2009, 01:36:21 PM »

yeah, daftlad - don't know where you are getting your info but sempatap is not very insprising. dan/jack had given the figures. It's only advantage is that it can be done relatively quickly and easily in an occupied building, and it will help with condensation.

But anyone on this forum should be ignoring it and putting in some proper insulation, such at the 70mm PUR dan/jack is specifying.
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Wookey
daftlad
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« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2009, 03:11:56 PM »

wookey
i have no idea what sempatap is
what i said was "look at what stbarnabus is on about"
which was Super foil not sempatap.
my info was got from working along side other trades on building sites which is why i was not specific about facts (i used phrases like "i think")
i suggested that dan aka jack "look at" not that it was the best thing since sliced bread.
It appears that dan aka jack has looked at different things and made a decision, GOOD
so if you are to use phrases like "yeah daftlad" please bother to read the posts first
laters

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dan_aka_jack
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« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2009, 03:22:02 PM »

Ooops, sorry Daft Lad.  I must admit that I failed to read your comment properly and I thought you were refering to Sempatap too!  Sorry.  I must read comments more closely!  Apologies!

MultiFoil is pretty controversial stuff.  See here for a lengthy discussion on the stuff: http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3135
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daftlad
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« Reply #36 on: February 20, 2009, 03:39:41 PM »

dan aka jack
no problem, i really don't mind people getting the wrong end of the stick (i do it all the time) just don't get grumpy (like i just did sorry)
I also don't mind people correcting me when i get it wrong (see first set of brackets above). *BUT DO IT NICE*

laters

ps thanks for the link to the Multifoil discussion.
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StBarnabas
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« Reply #37 on: February 20, 2009, 07:36:00 PM »

Hi
I have over 100 m^2 of multi-foil installed at StBC (Actis Tri Iso Super 9, Super 10 and SF19 - a Canadian Equivalent). It is vastly better than nothing and also vastly better than anything of a similar thickness. There are a lot of claim and counter claims about Superfoils. My feeling is that the jury is still out (see some of my previous posts - don't believe all the manufactures of more standard insulation say - they have commercial interest as primary motivation). Given my structure I had little choice. However if I had 20-30cm of space I would not currently use them (or at least not on their own). 1830's structures are difficult to insulate!
StB
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wookey
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« Reply #38 on: February 23, 2009, 11:04:54 PM »

daftlad. Yes, sorry - I am indeed guilty of not reading properly - made same mistake as dan_aka_jack and conflated posts. Can I use the 'it was after 3am' excuse?

Meanwhile super foil is a controversial solution. Go and read the epic 520-post thread on the green building forum for the full story: http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=125&page=1#Item_0
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Wookey
daftlad
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« Reply #39 on: February 23, 2009, 11:25:11 PM »

wookey
i did follow that link  MY WORD
it strikes me as amazing that a product that has been around since at least 2002 and is approved by building control, the french and the canadians is a maybe or a maybe not.
i hope it does work for the sake of stbarnabus.
laters
ps  the 3 am excuse works for me  Smiley
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kris
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« Reply #40 on: May 08, 2009, 02:08:37 PM »

I can say that I have used Sempatap in one of the bedrooms and I wouldn't use it again.   Despite claims by the manufacturer: you can't use any wallpaper over it and if you want to do it properly around corners, it is not very DIY- easy.  I had to get a professional decorator in who applied 3 layers of wall paper to try to mask the fact that you can't wallpaper over it, but the result is still not great.  I've put my experience with it somewhere on the green building forum.
Even after several months, the Sempatap still gives off a smell.  I think in a few years time, I will take it off and dryline the wall.  A shame as it turned out a very expensive expensive exercise for not much result.
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leepike
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« Reply #41 on: May 09, 2009, 01:25:48 PM »

dan-aka-jack

    we are an external wall insulation  installer company and the price to insulate your property would be around 5000. this price is based on 90m2 and includes all scaffolding and a choice of any colour acrylic render finish (1000s to choose from) you require. the system consists of 50mm eps boards mechanically fixed all around your property,a render is then applied and a plastic mesh is embedded into it.when this has dried a second slurry coat is applied and sponge finished. when this has dried a final top coat is applied. we have been trading for 28 years and all our customers are happy with the results.
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Amy
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« Reply #42 on: May 09, 2009, 02:32:49 PM »

Leepike

is that just for masonary buildings or can it be used on temp structures like caravans and wooden clad sheds?
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« Reply #43 on: May 09, 2009, 02:34:05 PM »

How do you deal with window and door reveals to reduce the end of cavity bridging without narrowing the opening?
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leepike
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« Reply #44 on: May 09, 2009, 02:55:05 PM »

 AMY

 i can fit external wall insulation to any surface although normally fitted to solid walls.
 i apply thermarend ( a mixture of selected polymers and polystyrene balls ) by trowel, can be applied very thinly so will not decrease the size of reveals etc.
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