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Author Topic: Got my Lister  (Read 4410 times)
jotec
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« on: September 20, 2009, 01:32:58 PM »

Just been and collected the Cs for te CHP project.




Well pleased.
Now to build the shed then get it running.
D ick
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Aiming to reduce dependency on 'mains energy'. Own bio for 40k miles, solar water heating (DIY),  CHP done blog at http://www.dpks.co.uk/CHP/main.htm (not always up to date!)
martin
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« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2009, 01:44:13 PM »

Excellent - hours of fun there! Wink
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Unpaid volunteer administrator and moderator (not employed by Navitron) - Views expressed are my own - curmudgeonly babyboomer! - http://www.farmco.co.uk
RichardKB
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« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2009, 08:20:32 PM »

Green with envy here.

Rich
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iann41
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« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2009, 08:05:03 AM »

You'll be able to power the bio plant from the lister, so even cheaper fuel.

And even some machinery from that large belt pulley.
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jotec
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« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2009, 08:21:38 AM »

Very tempted to run a saw from it. It came with a corn grinder so that may have to be restored!
I have always intended to try heating the processor with the waste heat but that will come after the 'main' part of the CHP is up an running.
Making a jib strip puller today to get the flywheels off (hopefully) and bringing the digger home to start digging out for the 'bunker'.
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Aiming to reduce dependency on 'mains energy'. Own bio for 40k miles, solar water heating (DIY),  CHP done blog at http://www.dpks.co.uk/CHP/main.htm (not always up to date!)
desperate
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« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2009, 08:44:07 PM »

Hi jotec

you obviously don,t need the inspiration, but I thought you might like this, seen at the IOW steam fair while on our hols

Desperate


* IMG_0929.JPG (101.72 KB, 811x540 - viewed 680 times.)
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guydewdney
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« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2009, 10:17:42 PM »

Just how long can pipes be run for CHP heat recovery? I have a lister CS (thanks woodenstop) that now runs (minor rebuild) and a shed which is a LongWay (tm) from the house. If the cooling was plumbed into the solar coil - would it work over 200 metres? with 'normal' 25mm insulation? Could I use garden hose to economise for that length? (incedently - got charged 6 quid for 2 metres of 15mm bore, 25mm wall grey insulation today  Shocked )

And I have a belt drive cast iron saw bench  Cool thats 100+ years old and works great. Currently runs off a LS1 (Ithink) 1.5hp lister engine - but needs more for the 30" saw  Shocked so would connect to the lister CS when I have time

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Pic of wheel on day 1
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Ivan
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« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2009, 10:26:41 PM »

might work if you transferred the heat in batch-mode. ie, you accumulate heat in a tank local to the generator. When tank hits 90C, you transfer the heat quickly to a good heatsink in the house (could even simply pump the hot water from one tank to another), thus minimising time for heatloss in transit
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knighty
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« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2009, 10:39:32 PM »

200meters there and back or each way ?

if you use smaller hose - like hose pipe etc.. then you should have a lot less heat loss ?

hose pipe is about 10mm yeah ?

really depends on how long you plan to run the engine for.... if you're only going to run it for a few hours then I think Ivan's heating up a tank and then transferring the heat would be the best system....

but if you're going to have it running for longer I'd think you'd be best off with a continuous pump going pumping the water around through say 10mm pipe/hose?

I don't have any figures to back it up, but don't think 10mm hose well insulated, inside a bigger tube (like frotters bog pipe) underground will lose much heat ?

also, if you;re running an exhaust heat exchanger too, I wouldn't worry too much about the heat loss... you'll have tonnes of heat to play with ?
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petertc
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« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2009, 01:34:17 PM »

With small pipe you will have a lot of frictional loss in the pipe so you will need to run at higher pressure to over come this
20mm bore at 0.5 l/s is .9 bar per 1000 meters of pipe so over 200 meters about 0.225 bar. i.e. 2.25 meters of head.
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iann41
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« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2009, 06:20:57 PM »

I'm sure i read it some where, but i thought over long runs bigger bore pipe lost less heat than smaller. the theory being that the surface area of pipe to volume was less (or more) so less heat lost.

Sure it takes longer to heat the amount of water in the pipes but i assume you'll be running the lister for a while and even have loads of hot water after the engine has stopped.

either way, as well as insulation it will have to be water proof as ground water (and the ground itsself) will leak heat out of the loop. By the way you can never over insulate.

I've seen a website (not sure where it was, maybe here or may have been CSOG or ken's powercubes) but some one insulated then wrapped industrial clingfilm around Cu pipe then buried the lot in drainage pipe. Saw photos of this and even though it took time was a great job.
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KenB
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« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2009, 08:38:43 PM »

Iain,

Yes, that was me.  I got some 22mm poly pipe, insulated with 19mm insulation from Wickes, and then found that I could get a 68mm black guttering downpipe around the outside to keep the ground water out. 

The clingfilm was to strap the flow and return together to make it easier to manhandle them into the trench.

I put 50mm of  Kingspan in a rough box section around the outside of the flow and return and buried it underneath the patio at about 350mm depth.

It's all here in powercubes_listers page 3  http://www.powercubes.com/listers_3.html

A 6hp Lister with a good exhaust heat exchanger will produce about 6kW of heat, which should be more than enough to keep an average 3 bedroom property at a reasonable temperature.

Mike Wilkinson at Steck Depositors is producing a neat 3 way stainless steel exhaust gas heat exchanger designed from scratch for the 6hp/8hp Lister - well worth it if you want to do this heat recovery seriously.

Ivan's approach of running a windturbine alternator, belt driven from the Lister is a good idea.  That way you use all the standard inverter kit that comes with the windturbine to produce nice clean mains.

However, with most of the WVO being consumed by the biodiesel industry we seriously need to get these venerable old Listers running on gasified woodchips.   


Ken
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Ivan
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« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2009, 09:59:49 PM »

I'd love to see a Lister CS running off woodgas (unfortunately I arrived at Chug's summer BBQ just a little too late to see Ken demonstrating this). However, it does look tricky from what I know of woodgas.

Yes, the veg oil is being consumed by the biodiesel guys, but I think interest has started to reduce, and there's no end of solid fat available free to whoever will take it. I should think there's also a source in the veg oil that's too acidic to make good biodiesel out of. I had some from the Forest of Dean Chinese restaurant, which had a titration of 12....to make good biodiesel you want something that's no more than 3 or 4.
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KenB
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« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2009, 07:41:41 AM »

Quote
and there's no end of solid fat available free to whoever will take it

LARD LIVES!!

Where's Frot and Speccy when there's a job to be done?  Probaby still wussing around with their Donut of Delight.....

I'm sure that lard, solid animal fat (tallow) and the gloopy residues of biodiesel production, such as the glycerol, methanol, KaOH mix, could all be added into a gasifier running woodchips and help improve the calorific value of the gas.

As those of you who attended Chug's Biodiesel Bash last July will know - there is serious interest in burning  the glycerol gloop to raise process heat for biodiesel production. Lots of turk burners being shown plus one Babbington burner.   

Just wait till gas goes through the roof again in a couple of years time and then all these bi-product fuel-stuffs will make a comeback.  Frot's probably secretly being hoarding lard for the last couple of years so he can survive the next winter of discontent.



Ken
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jotec
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« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2009, 09:04:19 AM »

I add the glyc to woodchips for composting - it would be nice to use it to power the lister. I will add this to the list of experiments when I have the CHP working. Glyc is the only residual from the bio making, except a little water, I have as the methanol is recycled and I use all the crud for making the bio.
D ick
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Aiming to reduce dependency on 'mains energy'. Own bio for 40k miles, solar water heating (DIY),  CHP done blog at http://www.dpks.co.uk/CHP/main.htm (not always up to date!)
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