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Author Topic: I changed the wicks on my oil fired Aga Rayburn nouvelle, virtually for free.  (Read 11093 times)
grevls
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« on: December 10, 2009, 11:35:19 AM »

I changed the wicks on my oil fired Aga Rayburn nouvelle, virtually for free. - by Steve Barson

http://www.navitron.org.uk/case_studydetails.php?id=5
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Stevie D
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« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2009, 11:53:53 AM »

Excellent write up - I've done mine ( a slightly different round burner - but different model 270K or something - same basic slightly adpated procedure) several times as well after being shown by the previous owner.

Your document will be beneficial to lots of folks.

Mine pop pops very ocasionally as well, must check my burner for level Wink

Steve
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daftlad
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« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2009, 03:12:22 PM »

I would not own an aga/ rayburn with a wick burner based on the efficiency of the things, it is poor.
I would fit one of these,
http://www.snughomecookers.co.uk/index.htm
and it will run on bio diesel, I bet frotter could even get it to run on lard.
ta ta
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Stevie D
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« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2009, 12:13:37 PM »

I would not own an aga/ rayburn with a wick burner based on the efficiency of the things, it is poor.
I would fit one of these,
http://www.snughomecookers.co.uk/index.htm
and it will run on bio diesel, I bet frotter could even get it to run on lard.
ta ta

Agreed - but for now it suits my needs, when the house is built eventually I'll be investing in a snug burner.  As it is now it doesn't use any valuable elctrical power.  I'm currently off grid.
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Off grid 400ft2 log cabin
640ah 24v VRLA battery pack - it was Free :-)
700watt (1000 watt peak) windturbine
60amp Dump load controller
Chinese thermal solar tubes
Resol Solar pump station
50amp ex military dc genset - now coupled to  Lister cs 6
3kw Sterling Invertor
sleepybubble
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« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2009, 09:32:50 PM »

Nice write up but.... you have only performed about one 1/4 of a full service there, so you have only saved yourself 25 according to how much you claim to have been charged for a service.

You still need to clean & check the flueways, check and replace the filter on the regulator, check and replace the filter on the oil tank. Check the flow rates on the BM style regulator and reset it correctly to the maufactures specification for the stove. Properly test the fire control valve, and replace if necessary.... Yada Yada Yada.

Whilst I appreciate that you feel you are not getting justice from your current boiler service provider, it certainly pays to shop around, for somebody who does know what they are doing.

Rerember that the 100 shouldn't just be buying you some new wicks. I'd suggest you check on the OFTEC website for a list of nearby certified and registered installers and talk to some of them about whether they are used to/capable of servicing your stove properly and then engage them to undertake a full and proper service on your stove.

I'd obviously also appreciate that Navitron doesn't advocate money saving tips that may lead people to believe that they have undertaken a full service when all they have done is change the wicks and re-set the oil pan correctly. An untested fire valve is extremely dangerous and places yourself and your family at risk of DEATH.

Sorry to be such a downer, but I don't pay a small fortune for my OFTEC certification every five years for the industry to be underminded by stuff like the above, and even less so by a representative of a company which hold no certification in this field of heating.
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Ivan
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« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2009, 09:59:33 PM »

Hi Sleepy,

Please don't take too much offence. Steve probably knows more about fires and flues than you give him credit for - he is the MD of Burley, which employes around 100 people manufacturing stoves in the UK. Steve also designs gas burners for production fires with all the appropriate accreditation.

I think the safety aspect is clearly covered in the opening statement of the pdf. The article isn't meant to undermine the value of servicing (hell, you shouldn't need to service a solid fuel appliance three times in a year, should you?!)

The thing that prompted Steve to write this guide was that he has had visits from approved engineers, who have simply changed the wickes (not done the other things you mention) and charged a lot of money for doing so. On top of that, their maintenance hasn't been effective, regardless of their qualifications. Unfortuantely, just because someone has a certificate doesn't necessarily mean that they will do the job correctly!



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sleepybubble
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« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2009, 11:14:51 PM »

Ivan,

Sorry too, I got called away before I finished editing what I wrote to reduce the rant level a bit... I did want to add that when your looking for an OFTC engineer on the OFTEC site then steve needs to look for somebody who holds the OFT102 certification which specifically pertains to Vapourising burners, their servicing and commissioning. Quite often the pressure jet boys haven't got a clue what to do with Vapouriser's. When I last resat my OFTEC tickets in January the trainer belittled vapourisers and pretty much told us to refuse to service them and encourage a replacement with a pressure jet unit instead.

No you shouldn't need to service a SF stove three times a year, but... this is an oil burner. Which may need servicing twice a year dependent upon usage. If steve is not getting good service from a certified engineer then he is perfectly in his right to seek recourse from OFTEC themselves. OFTEC have a contract with the registered engineer which can make them go back and reattend. IF a resonable resoloution is not found by the origianl engineer then they can appoint somebody else to undertake the works at the orginal engineers expense. This is a major part of registration. They can even take away registration and certification.

If cowboy'ing is going on it needs stamping out, and the only people who can report it are dissaffected punters. Posting a partial DIY service guide should be frowned upon.

Now if it had been a guide to relplacing the wicks on a lard burning monstrosity, I would have maybe not bitten so hard.....
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« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2009, 11:58:45 PM »

By the way ...  how efficient are AGA / Rayburns

To be honest  i think they should be banned

I did a few gardens for new built highly insulated houses  and most people  wanted an Aga  ( like my 2 year old son wants a tractor )


If i work in my neighbourhood  local  i am invited for lunch or a cup of tea , all is cooked on their Aga

i get cabbage , potatoes, and a cup of tea , i will easy provide answers like (how long are you in Ireland and is your name Lar or Lars , ok we call you Lar cause thats the short form for Larry  Grin)

This is a nice cup of tea i have



But people  that just fit an Aga because its trendy are sick



Billi
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sleepybubble
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« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2009, 12:32:25 AM »

By the way ...  how efficient are AGA / Rayburns

To be honest  i think they should be banned

I did a few gardens for new built highly insulated houses  and most people  wanted an Aga  ( like my 2 year old son wants a tractor )


If i work in my neighbourhood  local  i am invited for lunch or a cup of tea , all is cooked on their Aga

i get cabbage , potatoes, and a cup of tea , i will easy provide answers like (how long are you in Ireland and is your name Lar or Lars , ok we call you Lar cause thats the short form for Larry  Grin)

This is a nice cup of tea i have



But people  that just fit an Aga because its trendy are sick



Billi

Vapourising units proberbly should be banned... however I'm not going to tell a 90 year old granny I can't service her boiler cos its rubbish, and that she needs to spend 5k to get it replaced am I. Especially when she has spent possible 1/3 of her life sat next to it.

Its a bit like telling somebody with a Series IIa landrover, you need to junk that useless old car, you've had it fifty years, you want to spend 18k on a new 4x4.

Whilst it is ok to be on the cutting edge of technology if you can afford to, some people live within a poverty trap.. Granny in her run down farm house is not quite the same as hooray Henry in his replica farmhouse. Also don't be fooled by the badge not all AG/Rayburns are the same under their clothes, the new ones are quite good actually. However I think we have done the range vs microboiler debate to death many times over on this forum.

If the PDF linked in the top post could specify that changing the wicks is just one part of a full service which should be undertaken by a suitable qualified Engineer, then it is actually very useful. Its a lot better than the one I did on FB a while ago for a friend who was to far away for me to visit.
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« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2009, 02:20:28 AM »

sad enough  that  solid fuel units  were replaced with oil burning ideas ,
Quote
and that she needs to spend 5k to get it replaced am I
?

Quote
... however I'm not going to tell a 90 year old granny I can't service her boiler cos its rubbish, and that she needs to spend 5k to get it replaced am I. Especially when she has spent possible 1/3 of her life sat next to it.

Its a bit like telling somebody with a Series IIa landrover, you need to junk that useless old car, you've had it fifty years, you want to spend 18k on a new 4x4.

Yes i agree  and decided  i want to grow old  with my own gear

 Billi
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grevls
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« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2009, 01:34:45 PM »

If the PDF linked in the top post could specify that changing the wicks is just one part of a full service which should be undertaken by a suitable qualified Engineer, then it is actually very useful.

'Servicing of any heater or appliance should only be carried out by a qualified engineer.'

I think that pretty much covers it...
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Ivan
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« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2009, 12:31:16 AM »

Billi's asked an important question - and it's one I'm interested in....are Agas and Rayburns efficient? Is there any way they can be modified to make them efficient?

My understanding is that wick burners are hopelessly inefficient compared to modern pressure jet burners, and an upgrade from wicks to pressure jet is a damn good idea.

I've also been told (but no way of checking) that Rayburns and Agas have very poor design of heat-exchanger (heat extraction from the fire/exhaust), resulting in very hot flue gases, taking away much of the valuable energy. I'd like to be proved wrong on this one, as I'd love to get a Rayburn or equivalent to run on veg oil or biodiesel, but I'll only do so if it can be efficient.
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« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2009, 12:40:23 AM »

my parents house had an aga when they moved in 40+years ago..... and they removed it after a few years.....


my mother has always regretted it... she loved it.... and they're planning to get another one when they move into a cottage in a few years time !
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« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2009, 12:48:37 AM »

Billi's asked an important question - and it's one I'm interested in....are Agas and Rayburns efficient? Is there any way they can be modified to make them efficient?

My understanding is that wick burners are hopelessly inefficient compared to modern pressure jet burners, and an upgrade from wicks to pressure jet is a damn good idea.

I've also been told (but no way of checking) that Rayburns and Agas have very poor design of heat-exchanger (heat extraction from the fire/exhaust), resulting in very hot flue gases, taking away much of the valuable energy. I'd like to be proved wrong on this one, as I'd love to get a Rayburn or equivalent to run on veg oil or biodiesel, but I'll only do so if it can be efficient.

http://www.snughomecookers.co.uk/index.htm

From this site they quote from aga that the efficiency of the wick aga is 55 percent and there pressure jet is 88 percent (having said that I also read somewhere else on this site that the efficiency is up to 80 percent)
Either way a bit better than 55 percent. Also the burner has a pre heater so it will run on bio diesel.
I read a bit about the burner somewhere else and it was developed for the army to allow them to cook using the same fuel as the tanks etc ran on (so they didn't have to carry gas cylinders).
ta ta
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« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2009, 10:40:51 PM »

The Aga with a vaporising burner may only be 55% efficient but it is 55% better than 0% which is what the Snughome burner is when there is no electrical supply!!
merkland.
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