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Author Topic: Has the MCS sold "the database"/is it public?  (Read 8106 times)
NoahsDad
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« Reply #45 on: May 17, 2018, 11:03:13 AM »

It sounds very much like the how the car industry operates and fuels these effectively rogue businesses who go chasing the leads they obtain. If you have ever had a car accident, you will know exactly what I mean.
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supremetwo
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« Reply #46 on: May 17, 2018, 12:32:54 PM »

The technology exists to block calls at source from invalid caller display numbers but Offcom do not have the legislation to enforce, merely 'guidance'.

This is the new guidance as from October 2018. (Note that caller display will then have to be free).

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statements/category-2/guidelines-for-cli-facilities
Originating providers are responsible for ensuring that accurate CLI Data is provided with a call. Transit and terminating providers are expected to check that the number provided with a call is from a valid number range.

For calls that originate on a network outside the scope of these requirements, the CP at the first point of ingress is responsible for ensuring that the call is populated with valid CLI Data, replacing the information with a number that has been allocated to them for this purpose where the original number is not valid or is missing.

The updated guidance also clarifies the options available to CPs to prevent calls with invalid or non-dialable CLI from being connected to the end user.

To support these recommendations, we have made numbers in the 08979 range available to allocate to CPs to use as inserted Network Numbers where no number is present or they suspect that the incoming CLI is not reliable.


I, too had an abusive response when I told the person that I never discuss buying anything over the phone via marketing calls.

This was one of several recent calls concerning the 'Green Deal'.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 12:44:42 PM by supremetwo » Logged

Tinbum
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« Reply #47 on: May 17, 2018, 01:21:52 PM »

The technology exists to block calls at source from invalid caller display numbers but Offcom do not have the legislation to enforce, merely 'guidance'.

This is the new guidance as from October 2018. (Note that caller display will then have to be free).

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statements/category-2/guidelines-for-cli-facilities
Originating providers are responsible for ensuring that accurate CLI Data is provided with a call. Transit and terminating providers are expected to check that the number provided with a call is from a valid number range.

For calls that originate on a network outside the scope of these requirements, the CP at the first point of ingress is responsible for ensuring that the call is populated with valid CLI Data, replacing the information with a number that has been allocated to them for this purpose where the original number is not valid or is missing.

The updated guidance also clarifies the options available to CPs to prevent calls with invalid or non-dialable CLI from being connected to the end user.

To support these recommendations, we have made numbers in the 08979 range available to allocate to CPs to use as inserted Network Numbers where no number is present or they suspect that the incoming CLI is not reliable.


I, too had an abusive response when I told the person that I never discuss buying anything over the phone via marketing calls.

This was one of several recent calls concerning the 'Green Deal'.

So the call just gets given a number and passed on to us. Huh
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GeoffM
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« Reply #48 on: May 17, 2018, 01:29:17 PM »

Same company as called me earlier just called again.

He also said he was Richard King but I don't think it was the same bloke.

He wasn't abusive, just refused to answer questions about his company.

I wonder if I'm now on their "fun and games" list!! :-)
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Tiff
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« Reply #49 on: May 17, 2018, 02:13:22 PM »

Same company as called me earlier just called again.

He also said he was Richard King but I don't think it was the same bloke.

He wasn't abusive, just refused to answer questions about his company.

I wonder if I'm now on their "fun and games" list!! :-)

I'm on their list. I've had them threaten to call me in the middle of the night.

When winding them up I sometimes play dumb, when they fall for it they often put you on speaker phone for the office to listen in.

I seem to be getting a spate of these again. Often get a call that hangs up, it's a test to see if anyone is answering and then you get another call five minutes later.

With so many calls I can't understand why trading standards are not shutting them down.
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Ted
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« Reply #50 on: May 17, 2018, 02:20:29 PM »

In theory at least the GDPR that comes in to force next week will fix this. Anyone on the TPS should no longer receive cold calls.

Finding out who is behind the call so that they can be prosecuted is another matter.
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Barrie
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« Reply #51 on: May 17, 2018, 02:34:45 PM »

This is great sport in our office.

There are ten of us in our department with consecutive line numbers so when a call like this comes in the first one says in a loud irritated voice "What is it you are selling, what ever it is I didn't ask for it so I don't want it" followed by the receiver being slammed down. We all then know what's coming next.

No 2 is Mrs string-em-along is very polite with related but stupid questions for as long as possible.
No 3 is Mr Angry, manages to keep an argument about time wasting going for quite a long time.
No 4 is a totally un PC imitation of a foreign accent which starts off holding the caller's interest but degenerates so that it is totally unintelligible, can also go on for a while.
No 5 (me) Mr Helpful, apologise profusely that it's not my department but I can transfer them over to the head of (or buyer for) phones or whatever. Then, after taking lots of enquiry details, dial the extension number for the fax machine.
No 6 then reveals the truth of what is happening, and may or may not use expletives to tell the caller to go away.
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Milton Keynes
Tiff
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« Reply #52 on: May 17, 2018, 07:56:35 PM »


Finding out who is behind the call so that they can be prosecuted is another matter.

Yes, this. Whenever I ask what their company is they are always a bit evasive and a Google search never seems to find them. Surely it would be easy enough for trading standards to arrange for someone to allow the saleman/engineer to come round and then find out who/what the company is.
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desperate
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Backache stuff!!


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« Reply #53 on: May 17, 2018, 08:25:49 PM »


Finding out who is behind the call so that they can be prosecuted is another matter.

Yes, this. Whenever I ask what their company is they are always a bit evasive and a Google search never seems to find them. Surely it would be easy enough for trading standards to arrange for someone to allow the saleman/engineer to come round and then find out who/what the company is.

It probably is easy to do but they obviously don't want to, there is too much money and data to be harvested.

I get hundreds of these time wasters on the phone and e-mail, it is getting to the point where I don't take my phone to work sometimes just to get some peace and quiet.

Desp
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Ted
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« Reply #54 on: May 18, 2018, 09:23:57 AM »

Part of the GDPR requires that the caller clearly and unambiguously identify their company when asked, but I find it difficult to believe that it will happen.

We used to get over 20 calls a week, usually around weekday lunchtimes. I spent some time reporting the numbers I could get (via 1471) to the ICO and we are now down to 3 or 4 calls a week all of which are 'number witheld'.   https://ico.org.uk/concerns/nuisance-calls-and-messages/

Whether there is a cause/effect there or not I don't know.
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Tiff
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« Reply #55 on: May 18, 2018, 05:02:12 PM »

Part of the GDPR requires that the caller clearly and unambiguously identify their company when asked, but I find it difficult to believe that it will happen.

We used to get over 20 calls a week, usually around weekday lunchtimes. I spent some time reporting the numbers I could get (via 1471) to the ICO and we are now down to 3 or 4 calls a week all of which are 'number witheld'.   https://ico.org.uk/concerns/nuisance-calls-and-messages/

Whether there is a cause/effect there or not I don't know.

Wow, 20 calls a week, that must have been a pain. I think the most we ever got was around half dozen in a week. Now around one a week on average but they come in batches.

I'm afraid its the same old routine, law abiding decent companies will follow the rules.

These scum bags who are already breaking the rules/law will continue to do so.

I do what I can to either waste their time or report them. It's good to know that others do the same.
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Antman
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« Reply #56 on: May 18, 2018, 07:40:32 PM »

I've had regular calls from companies who claim to have "obtained my details from the FiT register".
After a recent bout of them I emailed Ofgem and got the following reply:

Thank you for your email to the RE Compliance Team.

I am sorry to hear about the problems you are experiencing. I can assure you that Ofgem takes the utmost care in ensuring that personal data is protected and that we comply with data protection regulations.

For the purpose of providing information about the operation of the scheme, Ofgem publish the Feed-in-Tariff Installation Report on a quarterly basis, which gives a breakdown of the installations that have completed the accreditation within the relevant period. The report does not include personal data and, as a result of a recent review, FIT ID and accreditation number will no longer show in the report.

Some renewable generators are also REGO accredited. All REGO accredited installations are published on the public report of the R&CHP Register. However, if your installation has a total installed capacity of less than 50Kw and you are not an organisation, the address is not published.

You may find it useful to contact Citizens Advice consumer helpline who may be able to provide advice on how to stop/report nuisance calls.

Kind regards,


Embeded links within the pasted email response don't copy in but see:
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/environmental-programmes/fit/contacts-guidance-and-resources/public-reports-and-data-fit/installation-reports
https://www.renewablesandchp.ofgem.gov.uk/
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/get-more-help/if-you-need-more-help-about-a-consumer-issue/


I use BT cordless phones with Call blocking. Once you tell the phone the number is junk the phone stops ringing when the continue calling.
BTs Call Protect is not what it seems. I signed up to it and then had to cancel becuase what they don't tell you is that BT stop transmitting the CLI down the line. All you get is "incoming call" (or similar). Hence you lose caller display and your phones that identify known callers no longer do so! You still have to control all incoming calls using BTs system - either via the phone or via your internet account. Far easier to use a phone of your own and still see who is calling!

TPS is totally useless and without any teeth. If you report a nuisance caller you simply get a standard email response which ends by stating that you (as the reporter) will not receive any follow-up. So you have no idea what, if anything, is the outcome and are left feeling the response is a fob-off and nothing is actually done.
Further, unless you can provide the company name AND the company name quoted matched the phone number on the CLI, TPS do nothing. Many illegal callers vary their trading name quoted so that you cannot directly identify them deliberately - and will simply claim to TPS that "It wasn't us".

You cannot report repeating illegal nuisance caller that won't take NO for an answer to the ICO until you have already reported them to the TPS  banghead

What we need in this country is a law to force Telecomms providers to blacklist and automatically block at source ALL numbers that are genuinely/proven reported as being nuisance/fraudulent. That will stop companies from being able to continue making calls in the first place and will incur them costs for a new connection/number and prevent their business functioning in the interim.

Also the money-grabbing con that allows Telecomms providers to charge the consumer a monthly fee supposedly to block nuisance calls must be banned by law. Let's be clear, nuisance calls are a breach of the Communications Act 2003 and are thus illegal. Why should providers be able to charge consumers to prevent something that is illegal in the first place?  banghead

Antman

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GeoffM
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« Reply #57 on: May 19, 2018, 08:23:16 AM »

Thanks for that detail.

Of course, having solar panels is fairly obvious to anyone walking past or surveying an area using Google Maps. But these people also have my phone number and name. It'd be a not-bad bit of detective work to pt that all together but too much effort for the reward I suspect. However I never assumed was given out by any official body

Maybe on the next instance I will test their knowledge a little further, for instance ask how many panels I've got, or who installed them (which I think they don't know), or what my FIT ID is, or my inverter make/model.

My recent calls have come from "Number Withheld", and they are giving me non-existent company names. Again, I suppose I could string them along and if I get to the point fo some kind of appointment or transaction I would maybe fuind out who they really are, but I'm not sure I can be bothered.

Irritating though...
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RIT
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« Reply #58 on: May 19, 2018, 10:04:58 AM »

The key thing is not to get your details recorded on any of the general 'lookup' lists that are used to match homeowners to addresses and phone numbers.

- Go ex-directory as data collection from the phone book is still a major source of info, but few people now depend on the phone book for 'legal' tasks.

- Remove yourself from the public electoral roll. Again this is often used to map names to addresses.

- If you are ever asked by a door knocker or cold caller "are you the owner" just say "no, I rent" as this can mean that they drop you from the data they are collecting.

- If you do enter your personal details online a lot get a payg sim (Three's 321 offering is good) and an old phone and just leave the mobile number. You can then leave the phone off 99% of the time.
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GeoffM
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« Reply #59 on: May 19, 2018, 10:16:26 AM »

I already do all of the above except the phone thing. But the calls I am getting are almost solely on my landline.

I would add to the list do not do any surveys which dangle a freebie or too-good-to-be-true offer, or make the assumption that "respectable" companies won't resell your details.

'Er indoors was caught by a "Tesco" survey offering free Tesco points, she was plagued with random sales calls for weeks afterwards.

And years ago someone in my family (not me!) filled in one of those "lifestyle surveys" you sometimes get on the plane on your way back from a package holiday, in order to be entered in a draw for a free holiday. That also contained some kind of approval for the calls...


What I am not sure completely I understand is why  in this particular instance they are pretending to be someone they aren't, and/or won't divulge their true identity. If I "fell for it" presumably they'd want to do a little work for me, in return for vast amounts of cash, so sooner or later the truth will out. Won't it?
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