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Author Topic: VWs diesel boneyard  (Read 1595 times)
dan_b
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« on: March 30, 2018, 10:11:13 AM »

Wow- over 300,000 diesel cars just sitting there...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-emissions-storage/vw-storing-around-300000-diesels-at-37-facilities-around-u-s-idUSKBN1H50GQ
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M
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« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2018, 11:14:15 AM »

There is a season of documentaries called Dirty Money. The first is on NOx and VW, and it's rather disturbing to see just how much effort they put into the scam, and then in trying to hide it or mislead investigators.

At least one of their senior lawyers was smart enough to point out that it would be a bad idea for a German company, especially one with its start in Nazi Germany to carry out experiments 'gassing people', so they used monkeys instead for their also fake research using a TDi beetle on a rolling road in cheat mode.
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Nickel2
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« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2018, 03:57:41 PM »

I'll just throw in a bit of irony here:  stir

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wveW9Tw2JKE>

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myozone
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« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2018, 04:48:38 PM »

There is a season of documentaries called Dirty Money. The first is on NOx and VW, and it's rather disturbing to see just how much effort they put into the scam, and then in trying to hide it or mislead investigators.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6e8rsn
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dimengineer
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« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2018, 07:57:34 PM »

What I still dont understand is how/why the other diesel car builders have got away with it? They pretty well all cheated. Was it just a matter of degree, or was it that VW were the first to be found out, or something else?

I've heard of at least 4 different ways that the manufacturers cheated the test.
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fourfootfarm
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« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2018, 10:26:48 PM »

VW are one of the most prevalent mass market (as opposed to luxury or sport) european manufacturers.

I'd probably just put it down to good old fashioned protectionism.

Harley Davidson fell foul of exactly the same thing and powered through by plastering American flags and screaming bald eagles on everything. Not exactly an option for the people's car.
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Nickel2
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« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2018, 09:18:32 AM »

Just as I and many others predicted, various diesel vehicle manufacturers apart from VW would have "skewed" their emission figures to meet the latest standards.

Oh look, Mercedes appears to have been caught in the trap of impossible standards, providing their own brand of 'skewing'...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44444361

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Of course it'll work. (It hasn't caught fire yet).
dan_b
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« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2018, 09:27:03 AM »

The tightened emissions standards are/were not impossible.  What they were/are is expensive to achieve with increasingly complex engine technology, and would also mean the trend towards ever bigger SUVs as a regular family runabout would have to be curtailed.    What VW and Merc Execs decided was that they would rather keep selling big SUVs where the profit margins are high and would rather not spend hundreds of millions on more complex engine tech - or indeed invest in EVs instead - so they just cheated.

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Nickel2
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« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2018, 09:33:31 AM »

In the news today, fines for VW fiddling. I wonder how many other companies will cop it...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44474781

N2
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1.140kW mono south-facing at 49*
EpEver 4210A at 24v
24V 400 Ah battery. (4x200Ah FLA)
EpEver STI1000-24-230 pure sine inverter
Of course it'll work. (It hasn't caught fire yet).
dimengineer
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« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2018, 10:40:23 AM »

In the news today, fines for VW fiddling. I wonder how many other companies will cop it...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44474781

N2

It would be fun to see if Fiat/Chrysler, Or GM, or Ford - all American companies get got as well.
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phoooby
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« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2018, 09:32:08 PM »

Quote
The total cost of the scandal has been much higher. VW has set aside $30bn to pay for its US bill, which includes fixing cars, buying back cars, clean air fines, penalties and compensation.

Half the cost of the deepwater horizon oil spill yet there cars are contributing to the estimated 40k deaths in the UK alone and the oil disaster killed 11 rig workers. I'd say they have been let off quite lightly in Europe. Where is our $2bn EV charging network fund ?.
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dimengineer
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« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2018, 10:10:04 PM »

I'm going to go off on a rant here, so apologies in advance.

We were more or less ordered by the Government, egged on by the Green and Environmental movements that Diesel was the way to go, as CO2 was the ONLY thing that mattered. This was absolutely the message from the Green movement.

I am incandescantly angry that we've had not a peep of an apology from said enthusiasts who are now blithely say "ooh, NOX bad, ban diesels".

Rant over. Sorry.

PS I'm as guilty as the rest, as I think modern Diesels are lovely, so much nicer to drive than Petrol cars, and EVs aren;'t good enough yet.
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« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2018, 12:46:00 AM »

I'm not sure what "enthusiast" should be providing a apology. I am an EV enthusiast but I dont feel I owe diesel owners an apology despite banging on about EV's being superior.

There are millions of diesel owners in the UK and I would hazard a guess that the vast majority have no idea of the issue despite many news articles. I am sure many are in a trap of having bought the car with a view to long term use and now being told it is bad and there will be additional costs of ownership in the next few years such as higher VED and zero emission zones etc. Perhaps the government should step up and launch a scrapage scheme specifically for diesels. Something needs to change, I followed (at a distance) a 17 plate VW Golf diesel today and was wondering what they were thinking having chosen that car. I concluded to myself that it must have been a company car so purely a cost decision or perhaps they were not aware of the issue or maybe like the vast majority in the real world, they don't care.

Personally, I moved to EV in early 2015 after a year of looking for an alternative to diesel due to many large repair bills. Injectors (200 each reconditioned), DPF repairs/fluid renewal and the final straw was a dual mass flywheel failure which took out the starter motor. I was becoming obvious that maintaining a 3-5 year old diesel was an expensive business which outweighed the benefit of 10-20% less fuel usage and the low VED. 

My decision to move away from diesel was confirmed as the right one in late 2015 when dieselgate hit the news.

We are a 3 car house (only 2 drivers), one EV and 2 diesel. One of the diesel's will go shortly and the other will go in the next couple of years when a suitable alternative hits the market.
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« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2018, 08:56:00 AM »

Another semi-rant, perhaps!

2017 registered vehicle?  We are still at the other end of the car market - much older second hand vehicles.

We will very soon be temporarily down to a single car.  A 2005 Peugeot 607 diesel auto.  I am currently driving it as my wife is (temporarily) incapacitated.  I have recently achieved close to 50mpg - admittedly longer journeys, but over about 2000 miles of motoring.  I suspect it has achieved over 45mpg for all of this year.

Comparing mpg with my saxo - which returns over 55mpg, unless all running is short journeys, and up to about 70mpg driving steadily on a longer journey - is not so good, but after about 100 miles in the Saxo my neck is aching (no such problem in the 607).  Comfort is most certainly an issue for my wife since the beginning of the year!

Safety is yet another issue - my wife had one 607 severely written off, by a lorry which shoved her into the central reservation armco at close to 70mph, followed by a 540 spin into a bridge parapet, and walked away, only shaken and a little bruised - so not all can be decided on grams of CO2 per mile.

Depreciation on these older vehicles is minimal and I have to look at overall cost of motoring - the economics - not just going electric to reduce my fuel/energy bill, Im afraid.

The next but one will likely be an EV, if I can locate one at a decent cost.  But not a new one.

My first diesel car was back in 1987.  I was totally aware, then, that diesels were not as clean/green as advertised.  Joe Public has been brain-washed about how good diesels were for the environment, but petrols spewed out lead all around the environment for many years, prior to the forced use of lead free fuel and introduction of catalytic converters, etc.

Remember, too, that EVs running on fossil fuelled electricity, are not exactly CO2 free.  Both my daughter and son travel a considerable mileage in their company-supplied diesels.  The companies will have determined that diesel is still the better option for them, over a three or four year cycle.  Until the government redresses that, things will not change for those companies ... and when they do get suitable EVs, the second hand car market will change very quickly indeed!
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dan_b
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« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2018, 09:12:29 AM »

I bought a brand new diesel in 2016, a Volvo V40 D2  Wanted an EV then but just wasnt viable for our domestic situation, the amount of driving I do, and frankly none of the EVs back then were the car I wanted/could afford.  Mine was based on MPG, VED and parking costs- all significantly better for me with diesel vs the petrol equivalent.  And frankly petrols are not clean either.  My next car will be an EV though and probably/hopefully the Tesla 3.

For the company car fleets, I understand that the benefit in kind tax rate for full EVs is changing dramatically next year as a means of incentivising EV fleet adoption- I believe it might be 0% - which, coupled with the arrival of longer range mile muncher executive car EVs like the iPace, the Model 3 etc will probably make those cars quite a popular choice...
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3.06kWp SolarEdge system with a split array:
2.18kWp 10x South facing, plus 4x West facing 880W

Mk1 ImmerSUN DHW diverter
4kW PowerVault Battery
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