navitron
 
Renewable Energy and Sustainability Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Anyone wishing to register as a new member on the forum is strongly recommended to use a "proper" email address - following recent spam/hack attempts on the forum, all security is set to "high", and "disposable" email addresses like Gmail, Yahoo and Hotmail tend to be viewed with suspicion, and the application rejected if there is any doubt whatsoever
 
Recent Articles: Navitron Partners With Solax to Help Create A More Sustainable Future | Navitron Calls for Increased Carbon Footprint Reduction In Light of Earth Overshoot Day | A plea from The David School - Issue 18
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Solar plus storage cheaper than gas!  (Read 440 times)
dan_b
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3870


WWW
« on: January 14, 2019, 07:54:35 AM »

Never mind renewables now being cheaper than nuclear - this article says solar plus renewables are already cheaper than gas peaking plants.

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/01/13/solar-storage-half-the-cost-of-gas-peaker-plants-8minuteenergy/

(Interesting sub-point In here also about battery supply for EVs being constrained by the demand for grid-scale storage)
Logged

3.06kWp SolarEdge system with a split array:
2.18kWp 10x South facing, plus 4x West facing 880W

Mk1 ImmerSUN DHW diverter
4kW PowerVault Battery
GarethC
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 214


« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2019, 09:29:41 AM »

So as I understand it, solar plus storage works well because, as inverters and other gubbins are already installed for the solar plant, this brings down the marginal cost of installing the storage greatly. And the timing of usage is complementary. Generation winds down at the same time demand for stored leccy winds up (thus freeing up the inverter etc. for use by the battery). Am I right?

So solar plus storage presumably works better than wind plus storage, as the generation/usage pattern isn't necessarily as complementary with the latter, as it doesn't follow a predictable daily cycle.

The article points out that this is killing the business case for new gas peaking generation, but I think Lazard's levelised cost of storage report also suggested that this is an area where solar plus storage might hasten the demise of -existing- gas peaker generation.
Logged
M
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5003



« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2019, 12:18:06 PM »

So as I understand it, solar plus storage works well because, as inverters and other gubbins are already installed for the solar plant, this brings down the marginal cost of installing the storage greatly. And the timing of usage is complementary. Generation winds down at the same time demand for stored leccy winds up (thus freeing up the inverter etc. for use by the battery). Am I right?

That's my personal belief, since now matter how great (or small) the PV gen is, the timing of the peak period corresponds nicely. But then again, I suppose good win gen at night, is nicely timed for the morning rise in demand, ready for a 'PV handover' by late morning?

I'm sure there are recent articles, but all those I read over the last year or two said that PV and windfarms were keeping a close eye on storage, waiting for the point it becomes economical, since, as you pointed out, there are no issues to adding storage, especially these containerised solutions.

Looking good.  Cool
Logged

Just call me Mart.     Cardiff: 5.58kWp PV - (3.58kWp SE3500 + 2kWp SE2200 WNW)
stannn
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 5034



« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2019, 02:13:21 PM »

On an environmental basis, I wonder whether itís more important that those scarce batteries go into cars or that they go into energy storage devices?
Stan
Logged

2.45 kWp PV (Navitron supply), 40 evacuated tubes (Navitron supply), Clearview 650 log burner with back-boiler heating cottage and water, 2 off 50W border collies, 1 off 35W cat, 1 off 25W cat.
azps
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 636



WWW
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2019, 02:29:55 PM »

On an environmental basis, I wonder whether itís more important that those scarce batteries go into cars or that they go into energy storage devices?

They're not scarce, so both.
Logged

RIT
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1940


« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2019, 02:50:45 PM »

On an environmental basis, I wonder whether itís more important that those scarce batteries go into cars or that they go into energy storage devices?
Stan

Most lithium scarcity reports from a misunderstanding. Just about all resources are measured by a figure known as the "reserves estimate". The problem comes from reporters using this figure as a "total available" value rather than what it is - an estimate of what so far has been found. In general mining companies do not keep looking for something if they have found enough to meet their current forecasts.

Unless governments start to get involved (and most likely make a complete mess of things) lithium is an openly traded commodity, so its market price will decide what markets can afford to make use of it. A rising price for lithium and the other key items used in batteries (such as cobalt) should also keep the focus on making more efficient designed or alternative solutions, as well as getting the mining companies going out looking for more.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 02:56:45 PM by RIT » Logged

2.4kW PV system, output can be seen at  - https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?userid=49083

Why bother? - well, there is no planet B
stannn
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 5034



« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2019, 03:57:26 PM »

I should have been more specific. The CleanTechnica article suggests that Kia and Hyundai have had difficulty supplying both markets because of the rapid increase in demand for storage.
Logged

2.45 kWp PV (Navitron supply), 40 evacuated tubes (Navitron supply), Clearview 650 log burner with back-boiler heating cottage and water, 2 off 50W border collies, 1 off 35W cat, 1 off 25W cat.
RIT
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1940


« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2019, 04:56:19 PM »

I should have been more specific. The CleanTechnica article suggests that Kia and Hyundai have had difficulty supplying both markets because of the rapid increase in demand for storage.

It's the reports I've seen regarding the state of the Korean market that made me make the "Unless governments start to get involved" comment. Their government started to offer businesses discounts to install battery storage systems that are so good that everyone has signed up. A Bloomberg report last year talked about 3.7GWh of storage capacity being installed by the end of 2018. Another report talked about the fact that the original plan was to deploy 800MWh by 2020, but the offer was far too generous.
Logged

2.4kW PV system, output can be seen at  - https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?userid=49083

Why bother? - well, there is no planet B
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums
Simple Audio Video Embedder
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!