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Author Topic: selling your PV to energy firms.  (Read 5370 times)
nowty
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« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2019, 08:09:28 PM »

I installed my own 4KW solar PV in January.  Sonce then I have exported less than 50Kwh. Everything else I have self used.  That small export is mostly at mid day when the panels generate more than the immersion heaster can use, if nothing else in the house is using power.

The only published tariff I have seen so far is Octopus Energy paying 5.5p per unit.

So my export would have earned me 2.75.  Assume over a year I export 100KWh, then the export payment would net me a dizzy 5.50

Now in order to claim this, I would have had to have used an MCS installer.  Lets be generous to the MCS people and say it would have cost 1000 for them to install it (vs me DIY installing it and sourcing the very cheapest I could find)  That would give my export payment, a payback period of 181 years.

I can't see many people paying the MCS premium just to claim such a tiny export payment.

Hmmmmmmmm, MCS or not MCS. wackoold

I read something a while back saying you would not need MCS for the new scheme, but I have now read from the official documentation that you "MUST" be certified through the MCS scheme and that you "MIGHT" be asked for your MCS certificate in order to participate in the scheme. But my interpretation is, if they say you might be asked for it, I suspect they either wont bother, or you simply get asked to self declare that it is MCS. And arguably it might be to MCS standards even if you DIY it.

I note the Octopus GO tariff says on their FAQs that you must be MCS, but then in another FAQ they say you don't even need generating equipment and you can use charged batteries or vehicle to grid systems. So, even if a battery only system is installed by an MCS contractor, I doubt you would even get an MCS certificate.

My own system is a mixture of MCS and DIY generation and non generation equipment so is that,

1) Legal for measured export because I can supply an MCS certificate (unlike ProDave) ? whistlie
2) Only legal under deemed export (as I only get paid for the MCS FIT part) ? fingers crossed!
3) Illegal full stop and I should opt out of deemed export and not claim any export even if I do export loads of leccy to help save the plannet ? fight
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11kW+ of PV installed and 56+ MWh generated.
Lithium battery storage of 50+ kWh.
Hot water storage of 15+ kWh.
Heat storage of 15+ kWh.
6kW Ground source heatpump.
EV BMW i3 (another 30+ kWh's of storage).
260,000+ litres of water harvested from underground river.
Home grown Fruit and Veg.
ProDave
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« Reply #31 on: June 22, 2019, 10:27:11 AM »

The killer for me is you would need to have a smartmeter installed to claim this export payment. I don't want a smart meter. I am refusing one and will continue to refuse one until the law says I MUST have one.

I would hate to get a smart meter, only then to find they won't pay any export payment because it is not MCS installed.

This needs challenging in the courts.  It is tantamount to enforcing a "closed shop" system.  The DNO were happy to register my system, they did not even ask for any form of certification whatsoever.  So if the DNO is happy with it, is it really legal to refuse export payments because some over priced installers club did not supply and fit the system?

I suspect it never will be challenged and if it is MCS will pay for bigger lawyers and win the case.

Apart from just a few liuke me who really want PV, I can't see many installing it now.  Which is crazy as we really need more renewable energy installed.
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4KW Solar PV,  4.5KW woodburner, 5KW Air source heat pump
Solarchaser
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« Reply #32 on: June 22, 2019, 11:54:25 AM »

I'm exporting alot just now.
Like a few of you, I have 4kw mcs and then another.6 not mcs.
I looked at the octopus offering to pay export, but their import price is over 1p/kWh more expensive than bulb who I'm with just now, so though great for the 4 middle months, it's not gonna be ideal for the other 8.
I dont mind switching suppliers, but I dunno if I can be bothered every few months to save 10 here and there.

Just a point about smart meters.
I wish I'd never got them.
I liked the idea of a display to show when I was using the leccy and gas, so got them in March 17.
All worked fine for about 4 months, then the gas meter stopped communicating,  which meant not only did the display stop working, but every gas bill showed the same meter reading,  and when I manually submitted,  I got a reply from edf saying I was mistaken and reverting back to their false read.

So now I've eventually switched to bulb, I've been 3 months arguing there is no way I used 2kw of gas for the last 18 months.

The other point is my electricity usage has increased by about 500kwh.... i guess my normal meter was running backwards with solar.

I think I'm onto plumbs asking for an old one back though, but you are definitely right Dave, stick with old as long as you can!
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book_woorm
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« Reply #33 on: July 12, 2019, 05:10:19 PM »

   Maybe this should be a new topic, but the MCS organisation seams to be determined that early adopters of PV should NOT be paid for their exported energy in the future! So for a lot of people here the discussion on getting paid is academic.

   Does anybody have any idea how many PV installations pre date the existence of MCS? in 2007 and or how many MW capacity that represents?

   I've just had quite an 'un-helpful' email from the MCS compliance people which in polite language says that because my PV installation predates the existence of MCS it can never have a MCS certificate and because of that I will never get the SEG tariff! Plus even if I decommission and remove the existing installation them put a new one up that won't qualify either even if its a MCS install! That's a little more difficult to swallow as eventually components will fail and renewal will be required.  Talk about MCS being a closed shop - I thought things like that died 30 years ago.

   I'm trying to find out what OFGEM think, after all HMG is after as much renewables as it can get and anyway FIT payments will run out in 15 to 25 years, depending on when one joined up so owners will be looking to be paid for export. The Power companies should not be getting anything for free and an economical rate is needed to both satisfy demand and pay back on capital invested, irrespective of weather the suppler is an individual with a few KW or a 'green' company with fields full of panels.

  Disenfranchising the early adopters is asking for a mass switch off by them, I just wonder how big a hole that would make in the targets. It would certainly upset the green lobby.
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2.4 Kw Kyocera Panels (west facing) Feronius inverter; Sonenkraft Solar Thermal with Twin 180Lt & 280 Lt Thermal Stores; SAP 'A' rated property with UFH & wood burner. Full weather compensation on the UFH buffer temperature & differential controller decides where the heat from the wood burner goes.
nowty
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« Reply #34 on: July 13, 2019, 11:34:29 AM »

   I've just had quite an 'un-helpful' email from the MCS compliance people which in polite language says that because my PV installation predates the existence of MCS it can never have a MCS certificate and because of that I will never get the SEG tariff! Plus even if I decommission and remove the existing installation them put a new one up that won't qualify either even if its a MCS install!

I do not understand this, surely if you installed a new system by an MCS installer they would give you an MCS certificate ?

And that would allow you to get the SEG tariff.
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11kW+ of PV installed and 56+ MWh generated.
Lithium battery storage of 50+ kWh.
Hot water storage of 15+ kWh.
Heat storage of 15+ kWh.
6kW Ground source heatpump.
EV BMW i3 (another 30+ kWh's of storage).
260,000+ litres of water harvested from underground river.
Home grown Fruit and Veg.
RIT
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« Reply #35 on: July 14, 2019, 12:30:12 AM »

   I've just had quite an 'un-helpful' email from the MCS compliance people which in polite language says that because my PV installation predates the existence of MCS it can never have a MCS certificate and because of that I will never get the SEG tariff! Plus even if I decommission and remove the existing installation them put a new one up that won't qualify either even if its a MCS install! That's a little more difficult to swallow as eventually components will fail and renewal will be required.  Talk about MCS being a closed shop - I thought things like that died 30 years ago.

I'm not sure how that would work, unless an installation has received some sort of support in the past, the MCS will have no record of it and so can not say that a brand new installation on a property will receive no support in the future. It's fair for them to say that a pre-MCS installation cannot receive an MCS cert as they can only issue certs to installations that are built from MCS approved equipment and installed by MCS installers, but that can't stop a new installation that is MCS compliant.
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2.4kW PV system, output can be seen at  - https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?userid=49083

Why bother? - well, there is no planet B
brackwell
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« Reply #36 on: July 14, 2019, 07:50:08 AM »

Why would anyone bother selling their PV output to a energy firm ?  To the PVer the leccy is worth c18p/kwh.  Just use it by increasing the loads and time shifting to coincide with production. 

The best for this is probably the EV with its big capacitry and mop up the rest with the HW,dishwasher etc.  For those with 9to5 jobs where the car is not at home during the day then a stationary battery is nesassary but i much prefer the idea of a 2nd EV as this is cheaper than a stationary batt but with the advantage of a 2nd car.  Once you have used up the PV this way then one has achieved max value from the PV output.  However i do accept that once we have TOU (time of use) tariffs then there is an argument for having a small house batt to get over the 4-7pm peak pricing or V2H/G which is what i am waiting for.
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