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Author Topic: VWs new diesels really are clean this time  (Read 746 times)
dan_b
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« on: August 14, 2019, 11:28:23 PM »

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-rival-volkswagen-exec-clean-diesel-commitment-interview/

Honest guv, they’re absolutely clean. Promise.
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Westie
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« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2019, 11:28:15 AM »


'The executive mentioned that diesels remain popular among car buyers due to their longevity, helping vehicles’ mileages reach between 400,000 to 500,000 kilometers (248,000 to 310,000 miles).'

Yea - sure. I'd like to see how clean it is after half that mileage. 

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Philip R
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« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2019, 10:55:58 PM »

The use of low sulphur diesel facilitates the use of low SAPs engine oil. This inturn reduces the abrasive properties of the burned oils ash around the top of the pistons above the rings. This in turn reduces bore polishing,which l causes excessive and runaway bore wear.
Fuel injector nozzles wear or clog up so may require replacement in this projected lifespan.

Have VW reengineered their weak chain driven engine lube oil pump.

 BEV owners should not be so arrogant and smug and get off their moral high ground.  Electric cars are damaging the environment in a different way. They are not clean machines.
Philip R
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Philip R
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« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2019, 11:05:51 PM »

What has spoilt diesel engines is the cursed EGR and all the add on systems like adblue SCR and particlate filters. It has made them less reliable beacause of the added complexity.
Maybe BEVs are simpler  therefore offering greater reliability.

Not sure about a battery pack lasting the equivalent of the diesel car mileage though.
Philip R
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todthedog
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« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2019, 06:19:05 AM »

Not clean but our old pug van was just shy of 500,000 km when we left France and gave it to a neighbour.
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« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2019, 07:26:02 AM »

I am thinking that the life of the engine is no longer the limiting factor to life span of cars.  Most cars do not get to the end of engine life but end their days because they become "beyond economic repair".  There is no point having an engine that can do x miles if other things are breaking down well before that and then there is accident damage where cars are scrapped with a perfectly good engine.

Car engines may be called clean when new but what about 100k miles down the line?

Anyway EVs are just better however one wants to look at it.

Ken
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Sprinter
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« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2019, 09:52:54 AM »

I would not buy a VW of any of its sibling brands out of principal, or Hover/Hotpoint or Vauxhall.

To be honest any company that lies and or refuses to support its products or blatantly lies about its capability (read wriggle and squirm and try every method available to get out of the issue without fixing it), then have to be forced to make the necessary amends by the people, government or law are not worth buying from in my opinion.

I don't see why others would forgive these corporate "indelicacies" and carry on supporting them, but each to their own.

Anyway i gave up on Diesels 3 years ago as they had indeed become too complex, managed to put 150k miles on my old MG ZTT (which i loved) but when it became uneconomic to repair (Fuel pumps Etc, sure the engine itself had many more miles to give) it was scrapped and i went for a petrol as i didn't want the unnecessary hassle and extra complexity of EGR, Particulate filters, Turbos Etc.

Took me a long time to decide on a normally aspirated petrol car that had a bit of grunt, but very happy with my Swindon built Honda.

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Barrie
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« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2019, 10:25:39 AM »

Sprinter +1


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dan_b
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« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2019, 10:35:56 AM »

Hate to break it to you but petrol cars also have EGR systems and have done since the 90s.
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Sprinter
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« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2019, 11:10:25 AM »

Quote
Hate to break it to you but petrol cars also have EGR systems and have done since the 90s

To be honest, "I did not know that", and i guess the reason that i didn't know that was you don't hear about EGR problems on Petrol's much (if ever),  however now i know about it i have had a quick google and my Honda does have one, and according to the forums they do soot up occasionally and they also recommend cleaning, but its a 30 minute relatively clean job, whereas my old ZTT was several messy hours of fun.

Damit, now i know it exists i am going to have to go and clean it Smiley

But thanks for the info.
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dan_b
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« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2019, 11:18:15 AM »

Petrol cars have EGRs for the same reason as diesels, to reduce the production of NOx emissions.
The reason petrol EGRs don't glue up as often as diesel ones is I think because the petrol exhaust is hotter and less sticky sooty particulatey - I'm sure there's a technical term of that! 
Also, in a petrol car, the % of exhaust gas recirculated is about 10%, whereas with a diesel it can be around the 50% mark.

For reasons I can't fathom, on diesels, the higher the % of EGR, the more particulates you get from the exhaust, which is why we've then seen the introduction of exhaust gas particulate filters on diesels to counter that.
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« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2019, 11:47:50 AM »

I haven't had a modern diesel since 'adblue' was brought in. To clarify things in my mind I found the following video on yewtewb to explain things a bit more clearly-ish.
The advertising starts at 11:20, so stop video before then to keep everyone happy.
I have no connection with the product(s), just thought others may learn the same as I have learned.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzRR8BTVsyw>
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Westie
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« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2019, 11:58:03 AM »

Petrol cars have EGRs for the same reason as diesels, to reduce the production of NOx emissions.
The reason petrol EGRs don't glue up as often as diesel ones is I think because the petrol exhaust is hotter and less sticky sooty particulatey - I'm sure there's a technical term of that! 
Also, in a petrol car, the % of exhaust gas recirculated is about 10%, whereas with a diesel it can be around the 50% mark.

For reasons I can't fathom, on diesels, the higher the % of EGR, the more particulates you get from the exhaust, which is why we've then seen the introduction of exhaust gas particulate filters on diesels to counter that.


Most new Petrol GDi engines are now fitted with GPFs  (Gasoline Particulate Filters), this started with Euro 6c in 2017.

Re - EGR -  If an engine has variable camshaft timing EGR is now implemented using that rather than an EGR valve,  it allows the inlet valve to open early allowing some air to be sucked out of the inlet tract  into the exhaust tract, it's called 'scavenging'.

I read that the 'emissions module' on the latest  VW 1.6 TDi engine now costs more than the engine itself!



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dickster
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« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2019, 02:04:14 PM »

Am I missing something here? An in depth chat between forum members on diesel/petrol exhaust particulates. Is CO2 not to be mentioned as it is considered a clean gas?

I am, at the moment owner of Dacia Duster diesel, one of the dirtiest of them all, apparently, bought 3 weeks before dieselgate. Old C15 van went to scrappers with 180K on the clock, chassis gone but with perfectly good, well looked after engine. Crushed.

Want EV.
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dan_b
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« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2019, 02:35:35 PM »

So the post-combustion injection of AdBlue came about as the solution to trying to solve NOx emissions from diesels.  You inject urea into the exhaust and over a catalytic converter it kills the NOx and you get nitrogen and oxygen gasses.
Of course it's an expensive system. Which is where dieselgate all came in in the first place - the bosses at VAG said they could make diesels that had reduced NOx without AdBlue because their engines were so "advanced".  Turns out all they were doing was cheating on the tests...

Winding back the clock - diesels used to be more fuel efficient and so lower CO2. Hence the drive to promote diesel vs petrol back in the 90s when all the environmental lobbies were really worried about was CO2.  "Unfortunately" the more the diesel motors are tuned and designed for max MPG, the more NOx they generate.    Then NOx levels, and particulates, became more of a policy priority and there became a very clear dilemma of essentially opposing directions in engine development.
Of course at that point the answer was "diesel is awful, let's build BEVs", but here we are in 2019 and most if not all legacy ICE manufacturers are still clinging to their ICE motors as if their lives depended upon them.   Mazda is currently launching a new range of petrol engines with ultra-high compression ratios without spark ignition which mean that in certain operating modes, they're actually operating like diesel engines.
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Mk1 ImmerSUN DHW diverter
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Tesla Model 3 Long Range
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