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Author Topic: Is it time to enforce the lax "no engine idling" rule (20 -40 fine) ?  (Read 667 times)
MR GUS
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« on: December 04, 2019, 02:59:00 PM »

More Ev's on the road, more being pushed as a great way to cut down on concentrated pollution & all that go's with it making vehicles that bit safer to be around (kind of).

Yet the majority are either unaware or "not bovvered" by the No engine idling rule which has been in place for a handful of years now.

It's legal on your driveway (for now) but not on the highway.
The only apparant exemption is if diagnosing an engine fault (apparantly).

As it gets colder we experience a lot more of it.

Apparantly the police in staffs who reported 9 cars stolen today (defrost / warm up, ..keys inside) likely haven't added a fine for engine being on & idling.
Police don't tend to consider idling engines enough to concern themselves, ..so hows it going to change?

Do you (E.V drivers especially) address this issue & inform drivers, if so how is it met?
Do you think its time to increase the fine, is there a way to report this these days (thought I saw mention of an app somewhere)?
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« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2019, 03:46:46 PM »

As usual, the wording leaves it open to interpretation:

'You MUST NOT leave a parked vehicle unattended with the engine running or leave a vehicle engine running unnecessarily while that vehicle is stationary on a public road'.

Parked and unattended on a public road is easy.

'Engine running unnecessarily' is not so easy as in the middle of winter you could argue that you need the engine running whilst sat in traffic in order to keep warm.  I'm not defending those who do it, just pointing out that it can be difficult to interpret and enforce......

My car has auto-stop on the engine and there are plenty of times when it disables itself for whatever reason so even though the engine is warm and there's no excessive load for either heating or cooling, it won't switch itself off so surely that would be a reasonable argument in court and may even be what is happening to many of the ones sat in traffic with their engines running.  Yes I can switch the engine off manually but if I do that, it then shuts down completely and I've been caught by lights then going green whilst I'm waiting for the car to run its restart routine (start/stop button rather than a key) whilst a huge gap opens up ahead of me and then I manage to sneak through the amber light by the skin of my teeth leaving half a dozen people behind me swearing, who would have got through ordinarily.

Just saying, as usual the statement in the highway code isn't completely clear cut  facepalm
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« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2019, 04:04:35 PM »

Left mine running unattended the other day for about ~15 minutes to defrost the windows ... surrender

Is was on my driveway
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« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2019, 04:29:08 PM »

In traffic is a completely different matter (apparently) & fair do's where it is irregular movement ..then there are the constant p155takers & flouters to the extreme side of patience & understanding.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regulation/107/made?view=plain

https://twitter.com/CMPG/status/1202142254078578689


I advised a driver sitting in his big SUV the other day "keeping warm" with lots of clothes on waiting for a bus to come ...got cr@p from him so went full on weasel pee-take mode in reply.

I also understand modern car engines only need 30 seconds to 1 minute warm up, car engines warm interior better via being driven, ie clear your screens & mirrors quickly & get the heck out. any more is just for personal comfort realistically.

Dress properly maybe too?

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« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2019, 04:59:32 PM »

As I understand it the UK does not have a "no engine idling" rule/law, rather we have a "no engine idling while unattended" rule/law, which only covers public highways/land.

As such the police do not have much to 'police' and they only find out about most vehicles that were running their engines while unattended at the time they are reported stolen. I think the cost of the vehicles replacement without the owner's insurance paying out is going to be far more noticeable than any fine.
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MR GUS
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« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2019, 06:52:42 PM »

As I understand it the UK does not have a "no engine idling" rule/law, rather we have a "no engine idling while unattended" rule/law, which only covers public highways/land.

As such the police do not have much to 'police' and they only find out about most vehicles that were running their engines while unattended at the time they are reported stolen. I think the cost of the vehicles replacement without the owner's insurance paying out is going to be far more noticeable than any fine.

Rit.

Section 98 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986/1078 requires a driver to stop the engine of a vehicle when it is stationary so far as is necessary to prevent noise or exhaust emissions, unless the vehicle is stationary because of traffic. Section 107 of the same regulations prohibits a person from leaving a vehicle unattended unless the engine is stopped.

If drivers are breach for reasons outside those stated above, is is considered an offence under section 42 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 which can be punished by a fine of 2,500 if the vehicle is a goods vehicle or adapted to carry more than 8 passengers, or 1,000 otherwise (see Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 section 33 and Part I of Schedule 2 to that act).

In addition, local authorities can apply for the right to issue fixed penalties for breach of those regulations under the Road Traffic (Vehicle Emissions) (Fixed Penalty) (England) Regulations 2002/1808. Under regulation 8, the amount of such a fixed penalty is 20. In addition under regulation 12, an authorised person who believes that a driver of a vehicle is idling while stationary may require them to stop the engine. If they fail to do so, they may be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine of up to 1,000.

But it is rarely enforced
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« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2019, 07:40:28 PM »


Rit.

Section 98 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986/1078 requires a driver to stop the engine of a vehicle when it is stationary so far as is necessary to prevent noise or exhaust emissions, unless the vehicle is stationary because of traffic. Section 107 of the same regulations prohibits a person from leaving a vehicle unattended unless the engine is stopped.


Section 98 of 1986/1078 is about noise only

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regulation/98/made

There may be an amendment I can not find - where did you get your text from?

I am happy to admit that I total missed everything to do with the rights granted to local authorities - but even there the wording you have seems to be at odds with the text. The fixed penalty can only be issued if the vehicle owner does not stop their vehicle idling, not just because their vehicle is idling. This in many ways explains why so few penalties are issues, firstly few local authorities are going to focus on 'possible' fines and few drivers are going to say no to such a request if it going to cost them a fine.

   http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/1808/regulation/12/made

Which may result in a fine if the request is not followed

  
« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 08:34:06 PM by RIT » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2019, 08:20:15 PM »

This forum gets more bonkers every day
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« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2019, 08:03:43 AM »

This seems like more unnecessary interfering in our lives and freedoms to me. Nanny state knows best.
Fined for warming my vehicle up? I'd also be fined for driving a vehicle with iced up windows..... 
Just going to warm up one of my diesel 4x4s to run the kids to school in 10 mins stir

H
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MR GUS
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« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2019, 12:19:59 PM »

However, the guy I ran into the other day (as per thread) was idling for the plus minutes waiting for a bus (the cambs busway) whilst we just turned off our leaf & Sat like him in coats  ..So he was not de-icing a vehicle to make safe for driving he just wanted his little bubble warm & damn everyone else.

This forum used to look at efficiency of all sorts,  well your likely comment if it were water pouring out of a gap straight down a drain & say what a waste.

To do what he & many like him do is senseless as it served no purpose other than his bubble whilst his suv sat belching behind him, right by where other film were walking (crossing points).

There's a difference between making sure your Windows are clear to drive & just being a selfish "person" surely?

Or else why do we make changes to kit, drive efficiently, insulate, etc, ..is it just for monetary gain?
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« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2019, 07:29:12 PM »

We are all going to get along peachy Gus
            Its Christmas and even Santa leaves his old diesel glow plugs stuck to the runner to keep them from icing up,,
 It is also the season of good cheer and forbearance.
                         Biff
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« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2019, 08:21:29 PM »

Thanks Gus for giving me the opportunity to update the forum swear filter - again.

And a timely reminder that we do not like swearing here nor is it permissible to use your imagination to subvert the filter either.   Both are against the forum rules.

 reindeer   fingers crossed!
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MR GUS
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« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2019, 09:33:45 PM »

Not subverting ted, simply getting the same point across as various graphics & alt words infer.

I anticipate you have now caught a multitude of ancient use of that one across the board as it was quite a common parlance.

I think I'll to burn some laminate worktops slowly ..because well, "fudge it"
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« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2019, 10:58:14 PM »

Had to tell my son to close the front door this morning. Warming his car up on the drive and filling the house with exhaust fumes. Only a 1lt petrol 15 yr old car so very little chance of it being stolen.
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