Navitron Renewable Energy and Sustainability Forum

Energy/Electricity Storage and Use/Grid Connection => FITs (Feed In Tariffs) => Topic started by: Flecktimus on April 01, 2010, 04:19:31 PM



Title: No FITS for me
Post by: Flecktimus on April 01, 2010, 04:19:31 PM
Just received the news from The Energy Saving Trust (Scotland) that it will be almost impossible for me to receive FITS as the technology I wanted to use is not recognised unless I go through a massive amount of accreditation work that I am quite simply not up to.
So what is this fantastic technology that they donít recognise?

 Undershot Waterwheel
I live just outside Jedburgh in the Scottish Borders and I am lucky enough to have about 300m of the River Jed. The big problem with the River Jed is, itís all volume not much drop. So not to give up that easy I measured what drop I had available and came up with between 1m Ė 1.4m.
So I starting studying on the net to see what technology was available for such a low head and came across a guy called Jean-Victor Poncelet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Victor_Poncelet.
http://www.waterwheelfactory.com/Hester.htm
Now this guy apparently developed an Undershot Waterwheel that could give 60% efficiency. Great I have loads of water but very little head can this work for me? First problem I hit is finding a decent diagram of this technology until I come across a guy call Ron Shannon
This guy has posted on the Internet a diagram as close as you can get to the Poncelet Wheel http://permaculturewest.org.au/ipc6/ch08/shannon/index.html. So I designed what I thought I needed
0.75m Drop
2.25m Wheel
1.3m Vane
282LPS (easily Available)
1245Watts @ 60% efficiency

Simples

Good news is you can have an Overshot Waterwheel

Anyway back to the drawing board.

Rant Over


Title: Re: No FITS for me
Post by: rhys on April 01, 2010, 04:27:11 PM
Archemedes Screw?
http://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6921.0


Title: Re: No FITS for me
Post by: guydewdney on April 01, 2010, 04:44:05 PM
Just call it a low head turbine  - and I have read that poncelot's are over 90% efficient (book called 'stronger than a hundred men' - is a fairly technical book on the development of the water wheel). In fact - at the time of invention - one professional body measured it as 103% efficient...  tomato:

needless to say - its very good. Also see 'zuppinger'


Title: Re: No FITS for me
Post by: northern installer on April 01, 2010, 09:33:02 PM
I would agree with Guy,after all,a poncelot has a nozzle,shaped blades,and close casing clearance,so surely it is a low head turbine? just make sure the invoice refers to it as such.


Title: Re: No FITS for me
Post by: Ted on April 02, 2010, 11:44:10 AM
Unfortunately the categorisation hardly matters if the manufacturer has not MCS accredited the product.


Title: Re: No FITS for me
Post by: Paulo on April 02, 2010, 04:09:45 PM
I wouldn't give in yet. No hydro equipment is MCS accredited yet, as far as I am aware, in fact I have just checked the accredited product list and there are no products listed at all for hydro! But from the old 'Clear Skies / LCBP' list there was a 'Zuppinger' (I think) by German company Hydrowatt, the UK agent is Pico Energy in Devon, expensive though! Another organisation worth talking to is Pedley Wheel Trust in Cheshire, I understand that they intend to go through accreditation (again they were previously on the Clear Skies list) and although most (if not all) of their existing installations are overshot, I have spoken previously to them about a Poncelet. For the size of wheel you are talking about, I would make a call to Paul Bromley at Pedley Wheel Trust. He is not a company as such and you may be able to purchase just the design and fabrication drawings from him. (Both these organisations are easy to find through google and I have no affiliation to ether of them!)

Hope this is helpful,

Paul


Title: Re: No FITS for me
Post by: northern installer on April 02, 2010, 09:58:21 PM
Flecktimus,after re reading your post,I am not clear on whether you actually have a poncelot wheel,or you plan to install one? as Ted points out,mcs is all,but there may yet be room for manouver given that mcs is,as far as I know,not yet available either on manufacture or install?


Title: Re: No FITS for me
Post by: Flecktimus on April 03, 2010, 06:46:07 AM
I wouldn't give in yet. No hydro equipment is MCS accredited yet, as far as I am aware, in fact I have just checked the accredited product list and there are no products listed at all for hydro! But from the old 'Clear Skies / LCBP' list there was a 'Zuppinger' (I think) by German company Hydrowatt, the UK agent is Pico Energy in Devon, expensive though! Another organisation worth talking to is Pedley Wheel Trust in Cheshire, I understand that they intend to go through accreditation (again they were previously on the Clear Skies list) and although most (if not all) of their existing installations are overshot, I have spoken previously to them about a Poncelet. For the size of wheel you are talking about, I would make a call to Paul Bromley at Pedley Wheel Trust. He is not a company as such and you may be able to purchase just the design and fabrication drawings from him. (Both these organisations are easy to find through google and I have no affiliation to ether of them!)

Hope this is helpful,

Paul

Hi Paul

Actually as i was driving to Edinburgh yesterday morning i had suddenly remember about The pedley Wheel Trust and yes i think they may be worth contacting.

I will kept you informed

Alex





Title: Re: No FITS for me
Post by: Flecktimus on April 03, 2010, 06:52:50 AM
Flecktimus,after re reading your post,I am not clear on whether you actually have a poncelot wheel,or you plan to install one? as Ted points out,mcs is all,but there may yet be room for manouver given that mcs is,as far as I know,not yet available either on manufacture or install?

Hi northern installer

No I haven't got a Hydro system yet,its because of my low head,but good flow that i am looking at poncelot.

I also take on board Teds point and hopefully there may be some movement

Alex


Title: Re: No FITS for me
Post by: Ted on April 03, 2010, 11:48:44 AM
Consider joining http://www.microhydroassociation.co.uk (it's free) who are still pushing to get DECC to drop the MCS nonsense for hydro.


Title: Re: No FITS for me
Post by: Baz on April 06, 2010, 11:11:27 PM
If you don't have an existing weir and wheel you might need an environmental impact assessment to get planning permission. My village looked at a community project a few years ago, reviving a 19century leat. 50k for the study soon killed that idea.


Title: Re: No FITS for me
Post by: guydewdney on April 07, 2010, 07:24:20 AM
50K just for the STUDY? jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez


Title: Re: No FITS for me
Post by: northern installer on April 07, 2010, 08:41:02 AM
Yep,thats the price of letting the lunatics run the asylum........ wackoold


Title: Re: No FITS for me
Post by: Flecktimus on April 07, 2010, 08:22:57 PM
50K just for the STUDY? jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez

Thats what you get with a service based economy  wackoold