Navitron Renewable Energy and Sustainability Forum

Energy/Electricity Storage and Use/Grid Connection => FITs (Feed In Tariffs) => Topic started by: Ivan on October 20, 2010, 05:50:18 PM



Title: FITs intact
Post by: Ivan on October 20, 2010, 05:50:18 PM

Looks  like FITs remains intact. I think the threat of legal action made them think twice. Still can't work out why it would make any difference to the public purse

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/oct/20/feed-in-tariffs-renewableenergy


Title: Re: FITs intact
Post by: Paulh_Boats on October 20, 2010, 06:31:07 PM
But today DECC said there will be FITs savings of 40 million in 2014-15

http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/news/csr_hmt_releas/csr_hmt_releas.aspx
 ???
-Paul


Title: Re: FITs intact
Post by: Ted on October 20, 2010, 08:21:40 PM
I think they are making 'savings' by increasing the level of degression from 2013. DECC also talk of savings from refoccusing on more cost-effective technologies - whatever they may be.


Title: Re: FITs intact
Post by: martin on October 20, 2010, 08:23:01 PM
ASHP to keep their buddies in the nuke trade happy! whistle


Title: Re: FITs intact
Post by: tony. on October 20, 2010, 08:34:39 PM
So do i sign up for my solar pv install or not?

tony


Title: Re: FITs intact
Post by: Paulh_Boats on October 20, 2010, 10:32:31 PM
So do i sign up for my solar pv install or not?

One journalist today said Yes!  Because your payments are guaranteed for 25 years, although its likely the 41.5p/kWh will be cut by 10% in 2012 or sooner.

-Paul


Title: Re: FITs intact
Post by: tony. on October 20, 2010, 10:45:16 PM
So if i get my pv system and get the 41.3p they cant cut it?

Is this right?

tony


Title: Re: FITs intact
Post by: Paulh_Boats on October 20, 2010, 10:59:24 PM
So if i get my pv system and get the 41.3p they cant cut it?

Is this right?

There's the rub. Nobody knows the answer to that question - DECC have not issued any details yet.

I'm with Ivan on this one because PV is self-funding via electricity suppliers, so it has no impact on the public purse.

However they could tax FIT's income, an idea that the Government would probably like to keep quiet at the moment!

-Paul


Title: Re: FITs intact
Post by: Ivan on October 21, 2010, 01:20:11 AM
I think they were put off by the threat of legal action (which would cost at least 3x the lost FITs). Fortunately, it was made very clear to the government that there is a body of people who would take out a joint legal action against the government. Anyone who had already installed or committed to installing a system prior to today would be entitled to sue the government (and would probably win), but of course anyone who went ahead with an installation knowing full well that they would not be entitled to the same FITs as previously advertised would be on to a loser.


Title: Re: FITs intact
Post by: GavinA on October 21, 2010, 10:46:48 PM
So if i get my pv system and get the 41.3p they cant cut it?

Is this right?

There's the rub. Nobody knows the answer to that question - DECC have not issued any details yet.

I'm with Ivan on this one because PV is self-funding via electricity suppliers, so it has no impact on the public purse.

However they could tax FIT's income, an idea that the Government would probably like to keep quiet at the moment!

-Paul
they've released enough details to say that it's not being cut until 2014, unless there's too great an uptake, in which case they will reassess it.

what the level of uptake needs to be isn't yet clear, but apparently the treasury have set a limit at which point they'll reassess it. Personally I can't see how that's going to work though, and IMO this was there one chance to have revised the rates earlier than 2014.

If I've read all the documentation right, they couldn't actually reduce the rates for existing FIT holders without going back to parliament to do it, which isn't likely ever to prove worthwhile doing bearing in mind the relatively low annual amounts being handed over to those installations in early years, and the fact that if they do it they may as well scrap all future FIT schemes as nobody will believe them. It's always going to generate more savings to reduce future rates than it will to cut existing rates because the numbers of installations will be increasing rapidly year on year through the scheme.

there are no 100% guarantees, but if they've not done it now, then I don't see them ever doing it.


Title: Re: FITs intact
Post by: Paulh_Boats on October 21, 2010, 11:02:50 PM
So if i get my pv system and get the 41.3p they cant cut it?

Is this right?

There's the rub. Nobody knows the answer to that question - DECC have not issued any details yet.

I'm with Ivan on this one because PV is self-funding via electricity suppliers, so it has no impact on the public purse.

However they could tax FIT's income, an idea that the Government would probably like to keep quiet at the moment!

-Paul
they've released enough details to say that it's not being cut until 2014, unless there's too great an uptake, in which case they will reassess it.

what the level of uptake needs to be isn't yet clear, but apparently the treasury have set a limit at which point they'll reassess it. Personally I can't see how that's going to work though, and IMO this was there one chance to have revised the rates earlier than 2014.

If I've read all the documentation right, they couldn't actually reduce the rates for existing FIT holders without going back to parliament to do it, which isn't likely ever to prove worthwhile doing bearing in mind the relatively low annual amounts being handed over to those installations in early years, and the fact that if they do it they may as well scrap all future FIT schemes as nobody will believe them. It's always going to generate more savings to reduce future rates than it will to cut existing rates because the numbers of installations will be increasing rapidly year on year through the scheme.

there are no 100% guarantees, but if they've not done it now, then I don't see them ever doing it.

Good points Gavin. But did you realise FITs payments come from a levy taken by energy companies, with no Government funding?  I don't see how the Treasury can "save" anything, except to remove the tax-free status of FITs.

-Paul


Title: Re: FITs intact
Post by: Ted on October 22, 2010, 12:32:46 AM
If the levy on all consumers gathered by suppliers exceeds the FiT payments (and the allowable admin costs) then any surplus is theoretically available to be returned to DECC by OFGEM.  It would be good to know how the figure of 40 million was calculated.