Navitron Renewable Energy and Sustainability Forum

WIND TURBINES => Direct Heating Systems => Topic started by: biff on April 13, 2013, 09:59:55 PM



Title: Surprise,!!!
Post by: biff on April 13, 2013, 09:59:55 PM
Well today I went to view some storage heaters,
                                                                I will shortly be putting up another 1kw x 120v string.The intention is to bypass everything and just fire the pv production straight into the storage heaters.No batteries,No controller,no dump,just a 10amp fuse and straight into the storage heaters.I calculate that I will need 3.5kw of storage heater to use up what ever the PV produces.
    Then I got to see the heaters,they were installed secondhand 45 years ago and were all working right up to the time they were disconnected 2weeks ago.I wrongly assumed that there would be bricks stacked inside round a heater element but when I went to have a proper look I discovered that the 2.4kw ones had 5 seperate zink covered units inside.each unit measured 500mmhigh by 185 x 185mm.each of these units was 340lbs each,so I was slightly puzzled.They can not be removed untill next week but I was given one of the  units to have a look at.
    I took it home(very heavy) and drilled out the 4 rivits which were holding the cap on top,through which two wires fed through. Obviously there is an element in there sandwitched between layers of brick.Imagine my surprise when I opened it and discovered nothing but fine limestone road chippings,filled to the top.I did not empty them out but I put a probe down and I am fairely certain that no bricks live there,just road fine chippings, :vomit2. Tomorrow I will investigate further.              Biff                        


Title: Re: Surprise,!!!
Post by: johnrae on April 13, 2013, 10:33:33 PM
Clever concept - "fluid mass" 
Why did you choose storage heaters over water storage - since in the summer sun the last thing you want is a storage heater pumping out heat during either day or night; unless you build a huge mass of them, wrapped in loads of insulation until winter comes.
Hot water is a "flexible" energy source, capable of being redirected to wherever it's needed, but limited to around 90 deg C, whereas stone can be heated to virtually white hot.


Title: Re: Surprise,!!!
Post by: dhaslam on April 13, 2013, 11:08:53 PM
Quite a few  multi  immersion  cylinders come up on  Done Deal and usually  at fairly low prices.     They would take up a good bit of space but easy to use as a  pre-heat cylinder. 

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/heating/4549860


Title: Re: Surprise,!!!
Post by: biff on April 13, 2013, 11:11:11 PM
We already have a good water dump load system,
                                             2kw immersions in two tanks.The idea is to redirct the dump to exactly what you described, an insulated mass which can release the heat during the night.The idea is to have this new string switchable from water to storage heater.
       I wonder what the difference in heat would be between the limestone chippings and the bricks,
        Thanks for the link Dhaslam,
                                                                                       Biff


Title: Re: Surprise,!!!
Post by: dhaslam on April 13, 2013, 11:27:04 PM
Not a lot of difference except that there would be air spaces in the chippings and  that would reduce the  density,  normally limestone would be a little more dense bit slightly lower specific heat than dense brick.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/specific-heat-solids-d_154.html
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/density-solids-d_1265.html


Title: Re: Surprise,!!!
Post by: GavinA on April 13, 2013, 11:37:15 PM
hmm. Is the power input definitely low enough to never risk burning out the circuits?

As the DC might stick the overheat cut out thermostat and prevent it from working. Worth testing it to be sure I'd have thought, assuming it's just a bog standard storage heater.


Title: Re: Surprise,!!!
Post by: biff on April 13, 2013, 11:47:52 PM
If I put it through the controller it will have a ceiling of 141vdc max if I send it direct with a little inline 10amp fuse it could soar up to 200vdc,
                                                             Biff


Title: Re: Surprise,!!!
Post by: stannn on April 30, 2013, 08:55:03 PM
Biff, this is turning into one of the longest-drawn-out surprises ever. What's happening?
Stan


Title: Re: Surprise,!!!
Post by: biff on April 30, 2013, 09:01:09 PM
I got involved with a load of shelving stann,
                                         Im about to post some pics,,,,hopefully facepalm
                                                                             Biff


Title: Re: Surprise,!!!
Post by: dickster on May 01, 2013, 10:06:00 AM
Any asbestos?


Title: Re: Surprise,!!!
Post by: biff on May 01, 2013, 10:19:33 AM
Hopefully not, :o
            Biff


Title: Re: Surprise,!!!
Post by: the blacksmith on July 19, 2015, 08:59:19 AM
Biff,

I know this is an old thread, but did you ever connect up the storage heaters?

I've just acquired 4 heaters, not sure what to do with them.


Title: Re: Surprise,!!!
Post by: biff on July 19, 2015, 10:18:50 AM
Good morning Blacksmith,
                      Nope,!, never went any farther with the storage heaters. I do have one which I sometimes connect up,approx 500watt but I never got to hang around long enough to test it properly.
  Camillitech uses storage heaters for dump loads, (I think). I depend on dc immersions to heat our water and keep our Turbine,etc under control.
                                                                                     Biff


Title: Re: Surprise,!!!
Post by: the blacksmith on July 19, 2015, 06:13:35 PM
biff, i did wonder,  too many other projects on the go if your anything like me.......


Title: Re: Surprise,!!!
Post by: biff on July 19, 2015, 07:30:28 PM
Yes, Indeed blacksmith,
                          You can only do so much. In another few months, I will be starting my duel PMG wind turbine. I have most of the gear ready to assemble but the big thing is the Yaw and the 6 slip rings and brushes. However, I recon I will be able to manage it. Until then, I am steadily getting my most pressing jobs done leaving the way clear for a couple of months of turbine excitement - :garden.
                                                                  Biff
                                                                                                           


Title: Re: Surprise,!!!
Post by: the blacksmith on July 19, 2015, 08:32:58 PM
Ive lived here now for about 18 years, we are gradually getting things done( got the money no time, now got the time no money) , but my wife bless here does not understand the need for "projects" which in the end will help to get our cost of living down, one way or another!
The problem is you need to have in my opinion really good fore site , stick an extra cable or two in while the floor boards are up, then the kids start grumbling there internet is slow, so up with the floor boards again so you can feed x metres of cat5e around the house.

I did buy a couple of books from hughe, but the truth is i cant see us getting planning here for a turnip, maybe in the future i will just stick the planning in and see what happens.

I'll have to stick with pv as I've got more panels than you can shake a stick at, i went out one Sunday to pick up 4 panels, i ended bringing back 19, (they were too cheap to turn down) , the trouble was i already had 14 sat back home, then i stumbled across a place that made cider, time to keep my head down :fight

I hope the pmg goes well, im sure you will keep us informed  with pictures.

tb


Title: Re: Surprise,!!!
Post by: biff on July 19, 2015, 10:54:28 PM
Wow,, "You went out to buy 4 and ended up buying 19"
        Believe it or not, It is the kind of thing ,I would do myself and have done. You cannot go wrong.
  But Ciderrrrr, errrrrrrrrrm :hysteria
                                                    Biff


Title: Re: Surprise,!!!
Post by: the blacksmith on July 19, 2015, 11:10:36 PM
Biff, I got the panels for 30 ea, new old stock, I could not turn them down . They have got mc3's not 4's.
Before I moved down to Devon I used to drink bitter, maybe because I'm older ,now after a hard days slog in the summer I do like a cider or 3, picked up some from Sams @ winkleigh, it does go down very well......

What is your poison?


Title: Re: Surprise,!!!
Post by: biff on July 20, 2015, 12:07:38 AM
Believe it or not Blacksmith,
                            It pains me to have to tell you that neither my wife nor I drink at all :hysteria. Before my kids came along I enjoyed a drink but once they needed this and that, I did not have the dosh to spend on anything else. I know it is not what people like to hear.I was also into music and did a lot of driving, so no booze there at all but I could get up with the band and a pint of farty lemonade and sing rather well for someone who looked half shot. I also ran a bricklaying gang on the continent and booze was the last thing I needed there. I am not anti-drink but I am mad enough as it is :crossed
                                                             Biff


Title: Re: Surprise,!!!
Post by: the blacksmith on July 20, 2015, 06:48:50 PM
Biff, theres certainly nothing wrong with  not drinking.

I know what you mean about the kids wanting things, ours are 12 & 17 now, the eldest has just past his driving test.
so its gone from us paying for driving lessons to helping him get his car, to helping him insure it & not forgetting us putting the fuel in it for him!
Hes staying on at school & just picked up a summer job, so hopefully when he gets a really good job he can then look after us ;D


Title: Re: Surprise,!!!
Post by: biff on July 20, 2015, 07:27:31 PM
  " So hopefully when he gets a really good job he can then look after us"
     Sadly Blacksmith, 
                      It don,t quite work out like that, seldom does. They fly the nest and meet the love of their life, get married, have kids and expect you to carry on looking after them as well :hysteria
  You will find that they have different idea to you. They will listen carefully to you but still go ahead and do it their way.( just like I did with my own parents). I am not complaining. I have been pretty lucky, touchwood.
                       Biff


Title: Re: Surprise,!!!
Post by: the blacksmith on July 20, 2015, 07:33:05 PM
I know where your coming from, i was exactly the same at there age!!!