Navitron Renewable Energy and Sustainability Forum

Energy/Electricity Storage and Use/Grid Connection => Off-Grid, Batteries & Inverters => Topic started by: clockmanFR on August 10, 2013, 09:45:43 AM



Title: Recomends please... Meter/store data, between 48vDc and 3.7kw Inverter.
Post by: clockmanFR on August 10, 2013, 09:45:43 AM
I know about the watt meters, but when the Inverter is fully loaded its drawing nearly 80amps, so the watt meters need to be robust.

I would like to know, with a bit more accuracy, what is coming out of my 1300ah batteries. I know what's going in to them and I know what kw's is coming out of the Inverter at 240vAc.

Any recommendations Please.

Thanks.
 


Title: Re: Recomends please... Meter/store data, between 48vDc and 3.7kw Inverter.
Post by: biff on August 10, 2013, 10:15:01 AM
I think that 10 minutes max @ 80 amps would finish your batteries C/M.
                                 3.8kw on sealed lead acids would murder them unless you had the same or more coming in and even then they are being stretched to the max.That load would still be 32 amp if running at 120vdc,Massive.  ( I think)
                                                                            Biff


Title: Re: Recomends please... Meter/store data, between 48vDc and 3.7kw Inverter.
Post by: Tinbum on August 10, 2013, 10:26:29 AM
I'm sure there's plenty out there to do the job. I would suggest something based on measuring the voltage across a shunt for the DC side.


Title: Re: Recomends please... Meter/store data, between 48vDc and 3.7kw Inverter.
Post by: biff on August 10, 2013, 11:09:54 AM
There is a duel push buttom meter on fleabay(red or blue)
                           It comes with shunt and instructions,200amp and 200volt.I think they were around 20.00 each but I did pay 30 bout 2 years ago.Then I got 4 of them for 50.00 complete with heavy duty shunts and clear instructions.
     Some of these little meters look the same but the wiring is the opposite and the innards are slightly different.You really need to follow the instruction carefully.If you go through the online specs and fitting instructions you will see the warnings about this same thing.
             Biff


Title: Re: Recomends please... Meter/store data, between 48vDc and 3.7kw Inverter.
Post by: w0067814 on August 10, 2013, 01:55:09 PM
I think that 10 minutes max @ 80 amps would finish your batteries C/M.
                                 3.8kw on sealed lead acids would murder them unless you had the same or more coming in and even then they are being stretched to the max.That load would still be 32 amp if running at 120vdc,Massive.  ( I think)
                                                                            Biff

Are clockman's batteries on their last legs then? 80 amps is only 0.06C and looking at a comparable battery size datasheet I see that they could handle 80 amps for 12 hours, and 52 amps for 20 hours sustained. 3.8kw is about 5hp, which is nothing for a forklift, so I'd expect to see far more current than that in every day situations.


Title: Re: Recomends please... Meter/store data, between 48vDc and 3.7kw Inverter.
Post by: clockmanFR on August 10, 2013, 02:21:52 PM
Biff, When its sunny I get 3kw, soon to be 5kw. And if its windy then I get 3kw.

Even in ambient light I am still getting 500w.

Thanks then will have a go at the ones with shunts.

Just that the batteries seem to absorb about 25% so with a data meter I should be able to give some real figures.


Title: Re: Recomends please... Meter/store data, between 48vDc and 3.7kw Inverter.
Post by: camillitech on August 10, 2013, 03:35:31 PM
Any use CM http://www.eltime.co.uk/product.php/41/DIN%20Rail%20Mounting%20kWh%20Meters.html Hugh uses them http://scoraigwind.co.uk/2011/11/kestrel-e400i-wind-turbine-on-scoraig/

Cheers, Paul


Title: Re: Recomends please... Meter/store data, between 48vDc and 3.7kw Inverter.
Post by: biff on August 10, 2013, 06:46:53 PM
Woo,
       80 amps just seems a massive draw to me.Thats all.I am used to much smaller amps and its a bit of a shock.There is also the fact that we dont drain or batteries down dead,We dont go below 12.4 and that means we only take about 12,5% or about that.If you start going below this you are killing the batteries and they will give up very quickly.So you are hardly likely to get the figures you are quoting unless you let the battery go to the bottom, ;D :fight
                      Biff


Title: Re: Recomends please... Meter/store data, between 48vDc and 3.7kw Inverter.
Post by: w0067814 on August 10, 2013, 08:27:28 PM
To be honest I don't think a bank of that capacity would even notice 80 amps presuming voltages are observed.

... Now if you really want to murder a battery you do what we do at work. We have 4 battery banks each 384v 80Ah. Weighs about 5 tons. Combined draw is a shade under 300 amps. stir:

Tim


Title: Re: Recomends please... Meter/store data, between 48vDc and 3.7kw Inverter.
Post by: camillitech on August 10, 2013, 08:43:35 PM
To be honest I don't think a bank of that capacity would even notice 80 amps presuming voltages are observed.

... Now if you really want to murder a battery you do what we do at work. We have 4 battery banks each 384v 80Ah. Weighs about 5 tons. Combined draw is a shade under 300 amps. stir:

Tim

That's nothing, this is what we have at work,

(http://lifeattheendoftheroad.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/023_thumb1.jpg?w=716&h=538)

800v 700kwh and seven tons  8)


Title: Re: Recomends please... Meter/store data, between 48vDc and 3.7kw Inverter.
Post by: biff on August 10, 2013, 08:45:54 PM
Aweeee well,
             And there was me thinking I had arrived with my 2 ton of lead acid  ::).
                                                                              Biff


Title: Re: Recomends please... Meter/store data, between 48vDc and 3.7kw Inverter.
Post by: clockmanFR on August 10, 2013, 09:46:07 PM
eye eye Paul, well scrag my cat for dem der lovely batts.

Will look at meter, thanks.

Biff my 12v batts never ever go below 12.35v or 49.40v, I now have a master auto LVD, (Low Voltage Disconnect), Also have EricW's circuit that recognises when batts have gone to float mode, and diverts extra power on the 240vac side of the inverter to heat water or the under floor heating. It also switches the load off if the voltage goes below battery holding voltage of 52.00v .

This now means very minimal use of the Wind turbine dump loads.


Title: Re: Recomends please... Meter/store data, between 48vDc and 3.7kw Inverter.
Post by: clockmanFR on August 10, 2013, 10:03:58 PM
Eltime stuff is good and have used them in the past for my panel amp meters.

Have been looking at this type, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Turnigy-130A-Watt-Meter-and-Power-Analyzer-in-stock-from-UK-with-fast-dispatch-/281106316902?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item41733dfe66 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Turnigy-130A-Watt-Meter-and-Power-Analyzer-in-stock-from-UK-with-fast-dispatch-/281106316902?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item41733dfe66)

Any one got any recommendations?

But have heard about the insides melting when power is really on.  sh*tfan:


Title: Re: Recomends please... Meter/store data, between 48vDc and 3.7kw Inverter.
Post by: camillitech on August 11, 2013, 07:50:00 AM
Eltime stuff is good and have used them in the past for my panel amp meters.

Have been looking at this type, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Turnigy-130A-Watt-Meter-and-Power-Analyzer-in-stock-from-UK-with-fast-dispatch-/281106316902?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item41733dfe66 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Turnigy-130A-Watt-Meter-and-Power-Analyzer-in-stock-from-UK-with-fast-dispatch-/281106316902?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item41733dfe66)

Any one got any recommendations?

But have heard about the insides melting when power is really on.  sh*tfan:

Morning CM,

But have heard about the insides melting when power is really on

yes I heard of more than one chap who wrecked a wind turbine with one of those  :'(

Cheers, Paul


Title: Re: Recomends please... Meter/store data, between 48vDc and 3.7kw Inverter.
Post by: rogeriko on August 11, 2013, 09:37:27 AM
Don't use those Turnigy types. Any more than 20a sustained and they melt. There are plenty of models with an external shunt. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bogart-TriMetric-2025-A-Solar-Battery-Monitor-Meter-500AMP-Shunt-Cable-/300943365845?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item46119f56d5


Title: Re: Recomends please... Meter/store data, between 48vDc and 3.7kw Inverter.
Post by: clockmanFR on August 11, 2013, 10:45:20 AM
Thanks rogeriko will have a good look at your link.  COR, bursts into song, so sexy for my batts, so sexy for my batts.

Paul, might ping Eltime a mail and ask how much, I know there stuff is good but their price is good too.  svengo


Title: Re: Recomends please... Meter/store data, between 48vDc and 3.7kw Inverter.
Post by: rogeriko on August 11, 2013, 08:12:09 PM
Here is another type    http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=MS6172

If you have a Turnigy you can replace the internal shunt (that's the bit that gets hot) with an external one   http://www.rc-electronics-usa.com/special-mods.html  Then you can run it at 100 amps no problem. here's a photo of the wimpy shunt inside the turnigy.



Title: Re: Recomends please... Meter/store data, between 48vDc and 3.7kw Inverter.
Post by: clockmanFR on August 12, 2013, 09:00:46 AM
Thanks again rogeriko. I loved the rc=electronics modification.  :genuflect

Have contacted the Australian Jaycar co. and await.

Also dropped Eltime a mail, and await.


Title: Re: Recomends please... Meter/store data, between 48vDc and 3.7kw Inverter.
Post by: rogeriko on August 12, 2013, 11:22:59 AM
This is the Chinese one I was thinking of yesterday but I couldn't find it, now it has appeared. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ECO-DC-Dual-Digital-Led-Voltmeter-Ammeter-Amp-Power-Meter-0-90V-100A-shunt-/350846579367?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item51b015f2a7


Title: Re: Recomends please... Meter/store data, between 48vDc and 3.7kw Inverter.
Post by: hobbit-express on August 12, 2013, 12:53:00 PM
http://www.navitron.org.uk/product_detail.php?proID=835&catID=157
Is this the kind of thing your looking for?


Title: Re: Recomends please... Meter/store data, between 48vDc and 3.7kw Inverter.
Post by: clockmanFR on August 13, 2013, 07:53:15 AM
Reply from eltime, was bad, (but normal ). They sent me details of Measuring Transducers errr. I asked for a cost effective max 70vDC max 80 amp watt meter, "contacts us" they said but I just did.
But in this day an age expecting an employer of this company to actually understand products is perhaps to costly. So yet again I go elsewhere.

Many thanks young Hobbit-express, will keep that in mind, but it shows amps used per hour, Ah, so would have to convert it to watts for her indoors.
Oh yes, My sheep still need tackling and shearing. (got one this year called Ninja, it jumps into the hedges and eats it way out, rugger to catch and hold).

Rogeriko, hmm, ever had one?. Looks a new gadget to me and I have not seen it anywhere before?  It sure ticks the box, but not clear what it actually displays, and as for operation, I do hope the set up explanations are a little better than the usual mumbo jumbo transalation.
BUT I do like that stonking great shunt bolted directly to the PCB with the 2 flying leads to the display chip.

Any way have sent 26 by Paypal so await outcome, if its real s.hit at least I can get my money back.  exhappy:


Title: Re: Recomends please... Meter/store data, between 48vDc and 3.7kw Inverter.
Post by: rogeriko on August 13, 2013, 08:10:52 AM
I never bought one but I believe it probably works OK. Please report your findings.


Title: Re: Recomends please... Meter/store data, between 48vDc and 3.7kw Inverter.
Post by: clockmanFR on September 28, 2013, 11:44:03 AM
Hi rogeriko,

My semi-report.

Pic shows it powered up.

2 menu's by pressing the OUT button, shows what's going out.... Other menu shows internal battery Volts, and three other functions but not sure what they are yet as I have no working power going through the meter.

2 displays, using the up and down arrows, showing Volts, power in Watts, Amps, C is amp hour, H is time.

Note, if battery supply removed then meter stored info is lost. :'( 

Trust this helps
Ps, at the price I thought it was worth playing with it, especially with this shunt arrangement.