Navitron Renewable Energy and Sustainability Forum

WIND TURBINES => Direct Heating Systems => Topic started by: biff on September 23, 2013, 11:17:38 AM



Title: Off-grid Immersion thinking.
Post by: biff on September 23, 2013, 11:17:38 AM
Off-gridders like me have to take advantage of every ray of sunshine and burst of wind energy,
                           When our battery bank is full,the real benifits start coming on stream.I recently set up a dump load DC immersion in our new 3 coil D/H/W/C.It works really well,in fact a few days after I installed it,there was hot steam blowing out of the sink taps and the water had to be run off to be able to work safely.The immersion responsible was a 2kw x 138vDC x 18" which sat at the top of our new 1800mm nx 550mm hot water cylinder.
     This was quite dangerous as you can well imagine,so I set about installing a mini surrey flange to take the hot water from the head of the tank and heat exchange it through the solar coil at the very bottom,One 10mmpipe drawing off the hot and another 10mm pipe returning the same to the head of the tank cooled.The pump was a bronze innards circulation pump which was triggered by a thermoswitch,whose probe was fitted down inside a sleeve inside the immersion where the cutout switch probe would normally have been on an AC system
     As it all turned out,the arrangement exceeded our expectations.It works really well and a few times when we went out shopping during the good weather,we returned home to find that the tank was full,from the top to the bottom with hot but managable water and that the excess heat had been sent around the C/H system which was warm to touch.There had been no boiler fired up for days,so this was new and exciting,
  However,One of the main benifits of such a system is that 18" immersion heats our water for immediate use much quicker than a long immersion reaching down 3ft into the tank,which when you think about it,will definatly not heat the remaining 3ft of a tank like ours.This is just another accidential discovery on my behalf but I remember Martin remarking about large lukewarm tanks which were quite usless.Our D/H/W/c DC immersion is only 18" long,so the water at the head of the tank gets up to temp very quick,The temp in our case is adjustable on the remote stat.I am not sure if such a system would be of any benifit to an OnGridder,Perhaps making the best use of the excess heat from a boiler in a W/B/Stove,But it is all worth considering because in the depth of winter ,every little bit of heats counts.
                                                Biff


Title: Re: Off-grid Immersion thinking.
Post by: biff on April 06, 2014, 05:00:56 PM
Today the wind has been blowing from the North West,
                                A nice health force 6 ,Then brilliant sunshine for hours on end and our new 3kw array,is really delivering the power. So our 2 x 2kw immersions have been busy all day.In fact the voltage touched on 148vlts a few times and that is a record.So i will have to install that 3rd controller and redirect to an emergency dump any thing above 145vdc.I know that I have a controller somewhere with an adjustable voltage pod and with a little bit of experimenting I should be able to get it set to cope with emergencies.I have also considered supplying power to a halogen heater which is turned on and off by a stat on the recirculation return pipe however this would not act quick enough to cope with a surge in voltage.
       The rads do not get hot hot, just warm to touch but the C/H system hold quite a bit of coolant and takes a good few hours to cool down,Plus the tanks,especially the hot water storage/heater in the hall will stay warm a good 24 hours to provide excellent background heat.
  The idea is to have a system that is totally automatic and which can cope with any fluctuation in both voltage and Temperature.Eventually I hope to have a control board that tells me the water temperature and which of the 3 pumps are in action at any given time + the voltage at a glance.
                                                                                         Biff


Title: Re: Off-grid Immersion thinking.
Post by: Billy on April 06, 2014, 06:29:02 PM
Automatic, I dream of automatic.

When the bats are full I have to turn on the immersion heater or lose all those lovely kWs.  When the wind blows too hard I have to lasso the whirling blades of death.  Every month I have to undo the bolts on the solar mount to adjust the altitude.  Several times a day I have to unlock the pivot and swing the solar array towards the sun.....

automatic, automatic, automatic lover, I am your automatic energy saving lover............


Title: Re: Off-grid Immersion thinking.
Post by: biff on April 06, 2014, 06:58:20 PM
Billy,
        If I can do it,so can you,serious.! I just put the PV through Chinese hybrid wind/solar controllers and their dump load (only 2 wires) send the dc excess to the dc immersions. So there is no real brains involved.
  The Dc immersion heaters are available in 48vdc(56v) in 1kw or 2kw. Mine are 2kw in 138vdc. and yes it is fully automatic as it stands at present but in another few weeks the power coming in will exceed the dump load capabilities,so i must install another controller just for safety.
         It works a dream,It really does.
                                       Biff
    nb, I also lowered the angle of the array,Its much flatter now but works earlier in the morning and later in the evening that before.


Title: Re: Off-grid Immersion thinking.
Post by: dan_b on April 07, 2014, 08:49:51 AM
More batteries?


Title: Re: Off-grid Immersion thinking.
Post by: biff on April 13, 2014, 04:47:22 PM
The day started well,
               Good wind,but very cold with the north wind chill factor.Good solar pv output and by 1pm the rads were warm,then the sky turned grey and the house began to cool.
   Outside is bitter cold at the moment.It is very like a snow sky but a bit late in the year for that.I fired up the boiler about 3pm. The wind is driving sheets of rain against our North gable not a very nice start to Easter freeeze
                           Biff


Title: Re: Off-grid Immersion thinking.
Post by: biff on April 22, 2014, 10:39:07 AM
Easter came and went,
                    The weather was fantastic with warm sunny weather and gentle breezes.The roads were choc a block with wandering tourists in campers,looking at maps and trying to drive,I thought everything was Sat Nav these days.I had reason to travel the Finn Valley into Strabane.I am guessing that a lot of the Northern Drivers were Dui just after lent and some of the driving was crazy. Not speeding just plain drunk.Most of our Garda stations are now shut down and for a while the gangs were having a picnic robbing people in their homes. However,community protection groups were formed and Txt watch,where if any suspicious looking cars or vans were noticed in the area,they were reported in by txt giving the reg.We had excellent results here locally.A family rented a house of a friend of mine,s sister over the net. The family moved in but local observations noted that they were touring about the area in their up market 4 x 4s at all kinds of strange hours. Nothing wrong with that of course but they turned out to be one of the worst crime families in the UK with about 14 adult members and a few kids.They were here for six months before folks knew who they were.This creeping burglar lark really caught on around here for a while and the locals had a feeling that they were being watched.They were right.The guards used a strange method to move them on but now they are gone.
    My immersions are proving to be a success,as each week goes by the rads hold more hot water for longer and its has been almost a week since we fired up the boiler.There is no switching or waiting to move power over to another appliance,It is fully automatic with the central heating water acting as the final controller dump load,
  How I wish that this could carry on over the winter :genuflect
                                                                       Biff


Title: Re: Off-grid Immersion thinking.
Post by: biff on April 22, 2014, 09:04:48 PM
 Mrs Biff,s bedroom has been finished ,
                        so I used some of the T nG sealer to slap all over this water heater in the hall.I covered it all in Kingspan with a light 4mm ply.The ply is surprisingly strong when it has kingspan behind it but better still it is not given to kicking and warping.It has been tested now for about a year and seems to be pretty good and reliable.It has it own pump and thermostat which uses the C/H fluid to cool the dump load immersion on the top.I was reluctant to seal it off because I might have to access the immersion,the pump.or the little header tank which take a little fluid every 6 months. So I left the gaps in the places which give me access to anything  that might need to be inspected.
(http://s12.postimg.org/wbznhvx2h/DSCF8982.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/wbznhvx2h/)
 The vents were necessary,The top of the tank gets very hot around 1pm just before our central heating pump kicks in from the DHWT upstairs.The stat on the water heater is set a few degrees higher and is only to be used as a backup in event of the C/H pump packing in,(it could happen)which would result in the tanks overheating and boiling. The sealer is heady stuff and can give one hell of a hangover,so plenty of ventilation is a must.The little cupboard is sporting a door from the texas casulty department (1993 ;D) with the sticker still on it but it did not cost that.
(http://s28.postimg.org/9h195s8mh/DSCF8992.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/9h195s8mh/)
                                                      Biff
   NB, I would just like to add,that such a water storage/heater in a hall such as our is quite a good idea.I know there is quite a bit of work and expense in doing it right but one of the remarks that Mrs Biff has passed is that the hall never got cold or chill since I installed the water storage/heater. It really does work well.Our boiler can also heat it,The tank has a radiator effect shell right around it and is part of the C/H system,This is how it heat exchanges with the C/H to cool the dump load immersion during the day. So as night falls we have warm rads and two big tanks full of hot water. So with the house as heavily insulated as it is,we do not have to fire up the boiler near as much now.So I am not mistaken in saying that there must be massive savings in fuel alone..


Title: Re: Off-grid Immersion thinking.
Post by: solar_cambridge on April 22, 2014, 09:53:05 PM
Mrs Biff,s bedroom has been finished ,
                        so I used some of the T nG sealer to slap all over this water heater in the hall.I
I'm doing something similar - trying to box in pipes and other things at the moment. Varnish or paint finish? What means do you have to access the business parts of the cylinder if needed? Is it screwed or held by a friction fit.

Any pics of your inverter that you've installed for this project. Still curious how you've wired it all up.


Title: Re: Off-grid Immersion thinking.
Post by: biff on April 22, 2014, 10:10:07 PM
Hi solar,
          I sited the vents directly over the items requiring inspection.I can isolate the pump by removing the bottom vent,I can reach the Immersion and check all the pipework from the middle vent and the top one ,when removed gives access to the header tank water lever mark and the little filler at the top.
          Wiring up is simple enough,I just use a 2kw Chinese hybrid,wind/solar controller with its own 2kw+ dump loads,I just bypass the dump loads and take the DC straight to the immersions @ 138vdc +. .I had the immersions ordered in 138vdc so there is good balance and the turbine is not going to take off on its own.There should always be one immersion ready to brake it,if the need be.
                                                                               Biff
   Varnish or paint finish,
            I am honestly not sure what it is,I just asked for stuff for the ceiling that would give a good finish but not shiny,I don,t want the headlights of cars bouncing about the room during the night.
    I thought it might have been polyurathane ? but it is water based(supposedly). It is very hard to get off the brushes.Petrol will not shift it nor white spirits and water and fairy liquid leaves an annoying mess. However,2.5 ltrs @ 30 euros put two good coats on the ceiling and I still have a quarter inch left in the tin after doing the water heater in the hall.
  Its called Crown interior woodcare all purpose varnish and if you are panting it on low down,do not bend over the open tin,best to pour out a cup full into a small container and use it up that way but it is heady stuff,


Title: Re: Off-grid Immersion thinking.
Post by: biff on May 17, 2014, 09:50:45 AM
 Just a few words to say that the water storage/heater in the hall is working well,
                                                  It is all sealed off now,so i don,t get to put my hand on the pipes to feel how hot they are,instead there is this background heat and there is never a chill in the air, even if the boiler has bot been fired up for weeks on end. Our turbine has been lowered because of suspected bearings problems and the small 660watt array has been dismantled and stored away,still each morning well before 10am the voltage climbs up into the dump load area and the two tanks are piping hot.
     I am just putting the finishing touches to the wind deflectors on the new 3kw array, I have one more important project to do for herself and then,I might get around to wind turbine but there is no hurry,It is doing dine where it is and I am strongly considering relocating it onto a tilting tower.
         In our case,it is a waste of a good turbine to have it up running all day,braking and playing second fiddle to the PV,Every time there is a massive burst of sunlight the wind turbine is forced to brake to a standstill in anything under a force 4.This kind of stop start running is bound to inflict heavy wear and tear on the turbine,s components.
  So the plan is, To lay my hands on a tilting tower a bit like George,s one but not quite as high.I have had tilting towers here before on smaller turbines and they are the true way forward.
                                                                                          Biff


Title: Re: Off-grid Immersion thinking.
Post by: biff on January 02, 2015, 02:31:09 PM
It has been a while since I posted anything on this thread,
                                                 To be honest,I did not expect to have anything to post because of the very short days and lack of sunshine. Today we had a fair old breeze and some sunshine and our tanks were getting so hot that the circulating pump taking the hot from the top of the dhwt tank to the bottom,came on and stayed on. :genuflect for a good hour. The downstair hall is warm as well. So this works all year round and at times when you really need it,on draughty days like today, ;D
                                                                              Biff
                                                 


Title: Re: Off-grid Immersion thinking.
Post by: biff on March 23, 2015, 12:16:08 PM
It is almost a year later,
                  And our water heating system is performing really well. the DHWT was circulating the hot from the top to the bottom solar coil before 10am. Even with showers and the washing machine going the cooing pump still kept going, so today might just be the very first day in 2015 that the C/H rads might get warm to touch as the C/H pump kicks in to cool the DHWT.That would be quite something.
   I don't need to touch or adjust anything, it will look after everything all on its own. :ballspin
                                                                    Biff


Title: Re: Off-grid Immersion thinking.
Post by: biff on May 13, 2015, 09:00:52 AM
Like my previous post,
                    Our system is performing very nicely. Our rads stay warm untill well after 6ish and the tanks then keep the chill out of the air. Yesterday was a top performance day.
  There is bound to be a big saving on fuel. Despite the periods of bright sunlight yesterday, there was a bitter wind, a force 6-7 for most of the day and our turbine would have been well near the max output. This is an excellent system for anyone who wants to be serious about living off Grid, so anyone who would like to know the specs,etc can PM me and I will gladly supply the info. It is one of the most simple installations that I know off. (it has to be ;D )
                                                 Biff


Title: Re: Off-grid Immersion thinking.
Post by: billi on May 13, 2015, 09:15:00 AM
... march , april and now may  are beautiful month for our radiators to come on automatically  , when bat voltage rises


Title: Re: Off-grid Immersion thinking.
Post by: Fionn on May 13, 2015, 12:32:50 PM
A great result for your system Biff.
So if I understand it correctly you have both PV and Wind connected directly to your battery bank with a DC immersion heater acting as a dump load (controlled by Chinese controller).
When the tank gets hot at the top you start a destrat pump that circulates the water throughout the tank to even out the temperature.
When the whole tank gets very hot the central heating circulation pump kicks in and moves heat from the tank to your rads.
Presumably you are just using normal tank stats for the last 2?


Title: Re: Off-grid Immersion thinking.
Post by: biff on May 13, 2015, 01:06:17 PM
That is exactly it Fionn,
                 And right again about the last two stats, However, the stat triggers the domestic water circulation pump is a remote boiler type with the sensor placed deep down in the sheath between the immersion tongs. The control to adjust the temp setting if necessary, is out in front where we can reach it easily. So far we have not had reason to go near it.
  The C/H pump is triggered by two ordinary pipe stats, one on the normal expansion pipe from the boiler and one on the domestic water cooling return pipe to the top of the tank.
  There is a further second C/H pump,set to start up at a slighly higher temperature. It is plumbed in next to the water heater /storage tank in the hall which has its own 2kw immersion heater. All the pumps  become ac dump loads themselves. The pump in the Hall seldom activates and if it does,it means that the ordinary house C/H pump has gone awol or some thing else is wrong.It can deal with it.
  I use ordinary Chinese wind./solar hybrid controllers and bypass their dump loads to connect to the house dc immersions. Very simple and straight forward, using as many controllers as necessary and not a Sunny boy in sight. ;D
                        Biff


Title: Re: Off-grid Immersion thinking.
Post by: andygo999 on August 02, 2015, 12:57:08 PM
Hi Biff
Thanks for posting this - interesting thread.
You've been kind enough to reply to my thread about ufh and issues I'm having with my store.
I've been wondering if it's possible yet to connect a wind turbine directly to the immersion on a thermal store? I'm at the top of a very windy hill. I like the idea of a small charge going into the store - especially over the shoulder seasons when the Rayburn isn't going flat out. Maybe I could sawp the immersion which is leaking on my store. Could you pm me details of your system
Andy


Title: Re: Off-grid Immersion thinking.
Post by: biff on August 02, 2015, 04:10:48 PM
Hi Andy,
        Well first things first, I am off-grid and have been for over a decade, I started off with a small turbine to learn how they work and to get to know the right way to go about it.
  Our dc voltage is 120v ( 95% of our off-grid members are 48vdc)and our storage is 60 forklift battery cells, Approx 2 ton. Our dump load voltage is 138.9vdc and besides having our turbine delivering 1.5kw approx in a decent force 6/7 ,we aqlso have 3.8kw of pv. Our dump loads are 2 x dc 138vdc ummersion heaters, One in each tank. One in the DHWT and One in the water storage/heater tank, These Dc dump load immersions cannot be fitted with cutout thermostats, because the turbine depends on them for braking and preventing overspeed,
    The Controllers are simple Hybrid wind and solar controllers,,each capable of handling 2kw+ each, We have 4 strings of 120v PV 2 strings for the water storage/heater tank and 2 strings + the turbine for the other tanks, In the stormy weather, the turbine can fill the clock @ 1.6kw and stay there for days, One immersion is a little later coming onstream than the other, so they don,t both hit on the Turbine at the same time and it does not slam to a stop,instead it seems to have a nice light touch,yet keeps up speed and generating. Our previous controller from years back, used to slam on the brakes and discharge the bank for about a minute before levelling out @130v and then start going like the clappers straight into overspeed again and again. So the present controllers are a fantastic improvement and make the whole show run smooth even in the toughest conditions.
   The PV is briliant and very easy managed. i would start with a small turbine, something around say 600watt to 1000watt and learn to fly that. If you are on grid you would need some other type of arrangement to mine but a lot of the members have such systems that can handle grid tied inverters etc,
                                 It is all good, but just remember that you are dealing with electric cables and inverters and such, so you have to be really careful and not take chances. Just train yourself not to gamble and take chances and you will get there without a bother. There is all the help you need here on Navitron and many of the members are much better able to keep you in the right track than i am so we can all help. Wind turbines are highly addictive and once you get to know them,you are hooked for life. You really get to love them as they work through the gales and the lashing rain to deliver the power when you need it. So spending a few hours now and then maintaining them is a genuine pleasure.
  I hope this helps,
                       Biff


Title: Re: Off-grid Immersion thinking.
Post by: andygo999 on August 03, 2015, 10:36:02 PM
Hi Biff
Thanks for the reply. Your system sounds great (even though you lost me on some of the details) but it's something I'd like to aspire to one day.

For now as you say I'd like to start small and keep it simple. Maybe this is too simple, but what I'm wondering is if it's technically possible to connect a small turbine DIRECTLY to the thermal store immersion to provide a constant trickle charge - which in our case could help keep our underfloor heating going. Ideally the system would consist of just the turbine and the store (which is a 277 litre Gledhill). If that's not possible perhaps we could use a battery in the system, but only as a buffer between them. For the moment I'm not looking to generate electricity for anything else or tie into the house system.

If the wind really blows and starts to heat up the store the CH system can kick in....

I've got a mate who's an electrician and done some pv installs. He's never done wind turbines though...
Is any of this feasible do you think?

Andy


Title: Re: Off-grid Immersion thinking.
Post by: biff on August 03, 2015, 11:17:35 PM
Yes it is feasible Andy,
                 AG (Agrarian)has such a system in which the working go right over the top of my head. He did explain it to me but I forget now exactly how he did it. I know that he split the phases and heats water with one of his turbines. He does visit us on a regular basis and is never less than helpful. ( He keeps me on my toes as well)
                                                                          Biff


Title: Re: Off-grid Immersion thinking.
Post by: Stig on August 04, 2015, 07:57:19 AM

For now as you say I'd like to start small and keep it simple. Maybe this is too simple, but what I'm wondering is if it's technically possible to connect a small turbine DIRECTLY to the thermal store immersion to provide a constant trickle charge -

What's going to happen to the turbine when the water's hot and the thermostat switches off the load?  It'll need a dump load else...  sh*tfan:


Title: Re: Off-grid Immersion thinking.
Post by: biff on August 04, 2015, 08:31:41 AM
Good morning Stig,       
                    In our own System,where we have 2kw dc dump immersions in each of our two tanks, I don,t have a cutout switch on the immersions. Instead, I keep the head of the DHWT cool by drawing off the hot at the top down through the solar coil at the bottom and pumping it back up,cooled to the top,so that i eventually get a tank with the water temperature the same all over. At that point a stat on the return pipe to the top of the tank,triggers the c/h pump and the boiler coils exchange the heat in the tank for the cold water in the C/H system.
   You are right. We cannot have the turbine without a load. Our system seems to work well and the rads get hand warm on windy sunny days which means that the 500ltrs approx of water is sitting toasty roasty and will provide background heat well into the early hours.
                                                                          Biff


Title: Re: Off-grid Immersion thinking.
Post by: andygo999 on August 04, 2015, 08:36:02 AM
Does it though....? I was only planning on using a small turbine and there's an awful lot of water to heat...
And the CH heating would kick in long before the store got hot enough to go bang...
Besides surely there must also be ways of turning a turbine out of the wind to switch it off.......
Having said that I know nothing so I'll start investigating dump loads......  

Thanks for the tip about Agrarian Biff, I'll have a search around some of his posts


Title: Re: Off-grid Immersion thinking.
Post by: billi on August 04, 2015, 08:42:48 AM
as far as i know  a turbine direct  attached to an ac immersion , will not work  good and the turbine gets stalled ......


Title: Re: Off-grid Immersion thinking.
Post by: biff on August 04, 2015, 08:58:10 AM
            "And the central heating pump would kick in long before...."
        Hi again Andy, That is exactly what i thought until the steam came out the taps and Mrs Biff said,,"Ere  do you see this"
 Our immersion was 18" down from the very top of the tank, the boiler coils were another 6" of cold water below that and the stat on the expansion pipe for the boiler would never have triggered, so a proper sensor had to be fitted inside the sheath at the top inside the immersions tongs themselves.
  I have matched the dump load immersion voltage of 138/9 to the turbine,One in each tank but with over 150ft of a difference in cable length to the controller,so one immersion kicks in later than the other The two do not hit on the turbine at the one time during windy weather or at night. However,the PV can stall the turbine during the sunny weather when the bank is full.
  Unfortunately there is no way around that, unless you get all fancy and interesting but at the end of the day, it is like carrying buckets of water from the well, The color of the bucket could be more pleasing to the eye but it will not help you hump the buckets any easier( I could be wrong) freeeze
                                                                                  Biff


Title: Re: Off-grid Immersion thinking.
Post by: andygo999 on August 04, 2015, 09:15:41 AM
            "And the central heating pump would kick in long before...."
        Hi again Andy, That is exactly what i thought until the steam came out the taps and Mrs Biff said,,"Ere  do you see this"
 

Ha, that made me laugh....

(http://s8.postimg.org/n6lw5uf3l/thermal_store_1.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/n6lw5uf3l/)

The immersion on my store is close to the bottom, so i figured there would be alot more water to heat, it's also below the CH stat so in theory that should act as a failsafe.....but yeh point taken, I've no desire to create a hot water bomb....just wondering really what's feasible for my situation.
I'd like to dip my toe in the water re wind turbines (and keep it fairly cheap) but without having to go full on with batteries and connecting it to the rest of the house.

I guessed I'd have to swap the immersion for DC (though don't know much more than that). But am having to drain the system anyway to flush it, so might as well take the opportunity


Title: Re: Off-grid Immersion thinking.
Post by: billi on August 04, 2015, 09:21:11 AM
andy , what kind of a  off grid system do u have ore aiming to have


Title: Re: Off-grid Immersion thinking.
Post by: andygo999 on August 04, 2015, 10:12:46 AM
Hi
Not really off grid at the moment. We don't have gas (rural location) so heating is done via solid fuel Rayburn connected to a thermal store. There's also a woodstove in the lounge.

I'd like to install PV, but the start-up cost is too much for us at the moment sadly.

I'm just looking for ways of keeping our thermal store hot....

Solar thermal panels are one obvious way but I'm also looking at ways of utilising the immersion on the thermal store - maybe by connecting a wind turbine  (which is why I posted on this thread)...


Title: Re: Off-grid Immersion thinking.
Post by: biff on December 19, 2015, 09:10:04 AM
Our 138vdc immersions are proving their worth,
                                       It may be miserable,windy and wet outside but inside is warm and cosy, Our two tanks are full of nice hot water,total capacity just under 500ltrs, One tank downstairs in the hall and the other upstairs in a hot press/mini kitchen. This morning the hot water was circulating in the DHWT and the return pipe to the top was the same temp which means that the excess hot was being pumped into the big underfloor pipes down stairs. So it is a system that looks after itself pretty well.
  We did leave the little stove on late, last fire was around 12pm but still the immersions work very nicely along side it,taking up the slack.
 The beauty of this system is that it takes the excess PV also and automatically,looks after everything itself.
 I hope this does not sound like I am blowing my trumpet here but instead, I recommend this system to anyone who is thinking of going down the same road.
 It is very good.
                 Biff


Title: Re: Off-grid Immersion thinking.
Post by: Handyman Essex on March 02, 2017, 11:40:12 AM
Solar thermal panels are one obvious way but I'm also looking at ways of utilising the immersion on the thermal store - maybe by connecting a wind turbine  (which is why I posted on this thread)...


Hi Andy,

How did you get on with this can?

Chris