Navitron Renewable Energy and Sustainability Forum

General Renewable Topics => Renewable Energy in EDUCATION => Topic started by: billi on January 27, 2016, 01:16:57 PM



Title: 135 gramms
Post by: billi on January 27, 2016, 01:16:57 PM
per kWh  right now

not bad  dix 10 points to Denmark   :genuflect

http://energinet.dk/flash/Forside/uk/index.html


Title: Re: 135 gramms
Post by: HalcyonRichard on January 27, 2016, 01:44:26 PM
Hi Billi,
          Looks like things are coming into place at last. That would give an EV 34g/km. Or comparing eggs with doughnuts allowing for emodied energy it would be 64g/km. Not bad for current EVs.

Richard


Title: Re: 135 gramms
Post by: Countrypaul on January 27, 2016, 02:25:22 PM
Seems very good, but how do they apportion the CO2 from the CHP systems?


Title: Re: 135 gramms
Post by: billi on January 27, 2016, 06:08:36 PM
positive thinking  .... whistle.... its 118 g/kWh   now


Title: Re: 135 gramms
Post by: billi on January 27, 2016, 06:19:53 PM
Hi Billi,
          Looks like things are coming into place at last. That would give an EV 34g/km. Or comparing eggs with doughnuts allowing for emodied energy it would be 64g/km. Not bad for current EVs.

Richard


Ok   you   calculate in cars ....;)   ,  fair enough  ;D


my currency is Euros      , i still believe  , that the luxury of electric cars ...........................  has to be invested into the Grid first


Title: Re: 135 gramms
Post by: HalcyonRichard on January 27, 2016, 09:21:21 PM
Hi Billi,
          I have been looking at electric cars a lot especially how much energy they use. Something that struck me was a quote from Elon Musk :-

“You have enough electricity to power all the cars in the country if you stop refining gasoline. You take an average of 5 kilowatt hours to refine one gallon of gasoline, something like the Model S can go 20 miles on 5 kilowatt hours.”

So I am thinking will EV's be a big win win situation ?

Attached is someone else take on the situation.

Richard


Title: Re: 135 gramms
Post by: billi on January 28, 2016, 04:32:41 AM
Richard , a VW   eco up with under 80 gramms per kWh   is about   12000 euro

if Elon Musk  ever wants to manage   to built cars   in a price range like that , then he is very welcome to join

 for the time beeing , i advice  people to invest in PV   and drive  other cars


i did a few  calculations  (based on my silly brain )  ... the result was  that we are bettor of   driving small petrol cars   and  safe some cash for  other ideas


Title: Re: 135 gramms
Post by: HalcyonRichard on January 28, 2016, 10:21:47 AM
Hi Billi,
          I must admit it is very confusing trying to find any information. That refinery info came from Robert Llewellyn, aka Kryten :-

http://longtailpipe.com/ebooks/green-transportation-guide-buying-owning-charging-plug-in-vehicles-of-all-kinds/gasoline-electricity-and-the-energy-to-move-transportation-systems/the-6-kwh-electricity-to-refine-gasoline-would-drive-an-electric-car-the-same-distance-as-a-gasser/

Tesla has a three stage approach to developing the cheap everyday EV. This is to make the funding possible their plan is :-

1/ Develop high end car (I think that is done)
2/ Use money from sales of 1/ to develop mid range car (in progress)
3/ Use money from sales of 2/ to develop low cost everyday EV

But even so there are cheap EV cars that are competitive financially. I find it hard to get information on CO2 emmissions comparison though.

I plan to do both by the way PV and EV (my dead diesel made up my mind and the particulates of course).

Richard





Title: Re: 135 gramms
Post by: billi on January 31, 2016, 05:43:48 AM
Good  wind power in Germany as well

 http://www.agora-energiewende.de/en/topics/-agothem-/Produkt/produkt/76/Agorameter/



Title: Re: 135 gramms
Post by: dimengineer on February 12, 2016, 01:21:44 PM
The point about electric cars is that they are very efficient - motor efficiencies of >90% vs <50% for IC. AND the motor only runs when you need it to. In traffic, when stationary, there's no idling, no electric consumption at all.


Title: Re: 135 gramms
Post by: billi on February 13, 2016, 10:05:54 AM
Quote
But even so there are cheap EV cars that are competitive financially. I find it hard to get information on CO2 emmissions comparison though.

... In countries like Germany with an average  Co2 per kwh over 550 gram  its   close to impossible do drive more Co2 friendly with an electric car  ( but  i ignore the other emissions)

Anyway a electric Golf in Germany will emit   103 Gram per km , an 1.6 l  Golf  about 120 gram  ,    battery production emissions  is a  factor as well ...

The price difference of both is  a 10 kw PV 


Billi


Title: Re: 135 gramms
Post by: phoooby on February 13, 2016, 11:22:00 AM
Similar CO emissions for both but local particulates in populated areas with the ICE car. I trust monitoring of power station emissions more than millions of catalytic converters and particulate filters which will receive minimal maintenance during their life and by all accounts do not seem up to the job when installed on some vehicles.


Title: Re: 135 gramms
Post by: billi on February 13, 2016, 12:28:14 PM
.... its about 600 gram of Co2  avoided  by each kWh of PV  ( in Germany   2010 )

for a   10 kw PV  that means  approx 10000 kwh x 0.6 kg = 6000 kg each year avoided

the mentioned 1.6 l  Golf  emits for a yearly driving  of 15000 km x 0.120 kg Co2 = 1800 kg each year




Hope i have my calcs right

Billi


Title: Re: 135 gramms
Post by: desperate on February 13, 2016, 12:41:36 PM
.... its about 600 gram of Co2  avoided  by each kWh of PV  ( in Germany   2010 )

for a   10 kw PV  that means  approx 10000 kwh x 0.6 kg = 6000 kg each year avoided

the mentioned 1.6 l  Golf  emits for a yearly driving  of 15000 km x 0.120 kg Co2 = 1800 kg each year




Hope i have my calcs right

Billi




.........conclusion?  we need lots of PV and EVs now, or as soon as possible, also do not forget the reduction of NOx and particulates, which is estimated to be causing 5 million early deaths a year worldwide!!

Desp


Title: Re: 135 gramms
Post by: gravyminer on February 13, 2016, 01:44:23 PM
something that doesn't seem to get much of a mention with EV's is the energy required to keep the passenger space warm

Surely this is a fair power drain so even in stationery traffic theres a heater running when external temps drop below 18c ?

Or will future EV's have a little windy smith wood burner where the gear shift used to be ? ralph:


Title: Re: 135 gramms
Post by: billi on February 13, 2016, 02:11:02 PM
.... its about 600 gram of Co2  avoided  by each kWh of PV  ( in Germany   2010 )

for a   10 kw PV  that means  approx 10000 kwh x 0.6 kg = 6000 kg each year avoided

the mentioned 1.6 l  Golf  emits for a yearly driving  of 15000 km x 0.120 kg Co2 = 1800 kg each year




Hope i have my calcs right

Billi




.........conclusion?  we need lots of PV and EVs now, or as soon as possible, also do not forget the reduction of NOx and particulates, which is estimated to be causing 5 million early deaths a year worldwide!!


 

Desp

Absolutely , we have to change our transport  system  , EV s are one part of an idea

People love cars and  take it easy to find the funds for them   , i wish they would like PV more ...

There are about 2 Million new registered cars   in the UK ,  each year ,  if we  take my min of 10000 euro difference to an EV (Golf example ) ,  that would fund about 20 GW of PV in only one year

8.5 GW    of PV installed in the UK at present times



Title: Re: 135 gramms
Post by: dhaslam on February 14, 2016, 02:27:02 AM
It is difficult to understand why large car manufacturers price electric cars so much higher than equivalent petrol engined models.   The marginal cost of each car would be fairly small and mainly due to the battery.    They have a very large development costs but that cannot be recovered if they only sell tiny numbers. Adding 50% to the petrol car price is counter productive and can only be explained by them hoping that petrol cars will stay selling for ever.    The specialised manufacturers don't have a lot of choice they have to recover all their development costs and overheads if they want to survive. 
 
The figure of average electricity co2 emissions is frequently used to say electric cars produce a lot of co2  but there is probably  only a small minority that doesn't have PV  and those that don't are more likely to use a renewable energy supplier.   


Title: Re: 135 gramms
Post by: HalcyonRichard on February 14, 2016, 09:25:12 AM
Hi,
    I do not think that the headline price for new cars bears any relationship to the actual price. I know that nearly new Leaf Acenta can be had for about £11,000 with full warranty on the car for 3 years and battery for 8 years/100,000 miles. When my diesel Mondeo became beyond economic repair I bought an ex demo Leaf for £12,000. I took all the paperwork and prices for the old car and basically the Leaf saves £2,000 year over getting a similar car to my old diesel. After three years if I sell for £6,000 the car will have paid for itself. This was planned as a second car but it has become our only car at the moment. I would not recommend one if you do long trips(but there are plenty of rapid charge points around). If you have a daily commute of say 60 miles round trip they are ideal fun to drive and will pay for themselves pretty quickly. There is a view that the finance deals like PCP are used to keep the second hand prices up and distort the market.(but who knows).

Richard


Title: Re: 135 gramms
Post by: TheFairway on February 14, 2016, 06:08:10 PM
It is difficult to understand why large car manufacturers price electric cars so much higher than equivalent petrol engined models.   The marginal cost of each car would be fairly small and mainly due to the battery.
Ive been thinking the same and with some they cant even blame it on battery as thet is priced seperately.

Ive neen tempted to propose this as a question to my employers as a research project. I just need to get all the facts together as i see it and get them to view it as something that may influence the car manufacturing industry into facilitating faster take up of low/zero emissions vehicles.


Title: Re: 135 gramms
Post by: HalcyonRichard on February 17, 2016, 11:07:04 AM
Hi,
     Just been looking at which energy supplier to use. Ecotricity stay they are the lowest CO2 at 11 g/kWh. I know they build their own renewable generation and/or buy in renewably generated energy. Any thoughts ? is it too good to be true ?

Richard

Edit from:-

 http://www.ecotricity.co.uk/for-your-home/britain-s-greenest-energy


Title: Re: 135 gramms CO2/kWh Denmark
Post by: billi on May 06, 2016, 07:06:46 PM
oh  .... surprise while i write this  ,  its again down to  about 135 grams in Denmark http://energinet.dk/flash/Forside/uk/index.html 

hard to believe , cause it is so  calm here in SW of Ireland  and a stunner of a sunny day  

Germany made it close to 30 GW of PV today  around lunchtime  so about half of the whole el. consumption




Title: Re: 135 gramms
Post by: billi on September 25, 2016, 02:02:44 PM
110 gram/kWh  at present  http://energinet.dk/flash/Forside/uk/index.html


Title: Re: 135 gramms
Post by: billi on January 11, 2018, 08:11:40 PM
Good stuff denmark ... https://www.rte.ie/news/newslens/2018/0111/932573-denmark-wind-farm/


Title: Re: 135 gramms
Post by: smegal on January 12, 2018, 04:20:07 PM
Hi,
     Just been looking at which energy supplier to use. Ecotricity stay they are the lowest CO2 at 11 g/kWh. I know they build their own renewable generation and/or buy in renewably generated energy. Any thoughts ? is it too good to be true ?

Richard

Edit from:-

 http://www.ecotricity.co.uk/for-your-home/britain-s-greenest-energy

Dale vince is an aunt. I'd use another. I'm with Pure planet, but bulb come highly recommended. Also liked being with OVO, but I understand that they aren't competitive any more.