Navitron Renewable Energy and Sustainability Forum

HYDRO TURBINES => Hydro Turbines => Topic started by: eabadger on December 03, 2016, 10:01:56 AM



Title: water mill advice please
Post by: eabadger on December 03, 2016, 10:01:56 AM
i have met a bloke who owns a water mill, he likes our offgrid lifestyle and was asking about creating electricity for self consumption, i have always wanted a mill we saw one once and so nearly bought it, but regulations on sewage and fosse install put us off.
given we have a complete mill stream and bypass i am thinking generate and store during day, or direct water heating and space heating, any advice?
mill we looked at had been used by germans to power village, just a huge alternator on mill wheel, little shed on top with manual regulation controls.
is a big multi-pole so slow alternator an idea?

steve
 


Title: Re: water mill advice please
Post by: dhaslam on December 03, 2016, 10:54:24 AM
The most efficient way to heat  is to  use a heat pump to transfer heat from the water and  export as much electricity as you can.     


Title: Re: water mill advice please
Post by: Countrypaul on December 03, 2016, 10:58:45 AM
Where is this mill? Since it was used by the Germans makes it sound to be on the continent?

Is there a plate on the alternator giving you any idea of the output? If it used to run the whole village could be a lot larger than normal domestic requirements.

Sounds like a real find, any chance of some pictures for those of us that can only dream of such things.

Paul


Title: Re: water mill advice please
Post by: eabadger on December 03, 2016, 11:04:04 AM
sorry for confusion, that isnt mill i now have to play with, that was one we looked at to buy before this place, but both in northern france, the "new" one in Pays Loire area, the german one was Normandy i think, the place had german graffiti on the loft ceilings, thought was it was used as a dormitory.
story of running the village may or may not have been true, alternator was big, i know war time alternators are bigger, i have a 6kva 1944 unit that is maybe 3x as big as a new one, so from memory it was about 4x bigger than my 6kva 1944 one.
yes i do have pictures somewhere, i will dig them out, maybe on pc that is in storage, be good excuse to get it out of the delivery van.

so do you have a water turbine?

steve


Title: Re: water mill advice please
Post by: eabadger on December 03, 2016, 11:20:20 AM
so drive the heat pump compressor from the water flow? or convert to electricity first, direct method i had not thought of but what a good idea.


Title: Re: water mill advice please
Post by: Countrypaul on December 03, 2016, 11:54:18 AM
No Steve unfortunately I don't have a water turbine, as I said soe of us can only dream about such things.

I think there have been discussions before about direct driving a heat pump so you may want to try doing some searching.


Title: Re: water mill advice please
Post by: eabadger on December 03, 2016, 12:05:14 PM
i will search, just being a bit lazy, but would be a good work project.

steve


Title: Re: water mill advice please
Post by: eabadger on December 05, 2016, 08:37:08 AM
this is in my village, classed as expensive, must have been for sale for maybe 3 years now.

http://www.mills-in-france.com/property/nv/ID/570338


Title: Re: water mill advice please
Post by: gravyminer on September 11, 2019, 01:23:28 PM
Further to the various comments above regarding the dream of owning a water mill, Ive just spent a week exploring Anglesey and was amazed at the number of totally abandoned buildings and many with outbuilding roofs collapsed and a mobile home parked beside them.
A bit like mid Wales 25 years ago or rural France today.

A random turn took us to an old mill that had a somewhat faded for sale board on it and as it was obviously not occupied we stopped and had a look.
The mill stream and feed to the water wheel all looked ok as did the wheel itself. A launder (?) or timber shute would easily feed the water to the wheel.
From the estate agents pictures it looks like a lot of money has been spent on the roof and the structure generally. From the OS maps it looks like the stream is fed by a large reservoir and there was a healthy flow in the stream.

It seems a bargain at an asking price of 175k and I share it here in case someone fancies realising their dream in an English speaking and resonably accessible part of the UK ( never heard a Welsh voice while on the island)

https://www.morganevans.com/en/properties/llanddeusant-anglesey-ll65-1


Title: Re: water mill advice please
Post by: JohnS on September 11, 2019, 02:33:35 PM
Nice to dream but...................
In case any one else dreams, the mill is Grade II listed.
Any changes, eg to residential use, would require planning permission.


Title: Re: water mill advice please
Post by: gravyminer on September 12, 2019, 07:59:20 PM
John
I reckon most historic mills will be listed.
Grade 2 is not that difficult to work through although a difficult listings officer is not unheard of ( its a bit of a lottery ) but I would expect them to be relieved that someone wants to take the place on and use it, as this seems to be a good way to preserve buildings.

Theres plenty of room to create living accomodation without removing or modifying any of the internal macinery.

I was drawn to the fact that the water rights and visible flow seemed to be intact as this can be a far bigger challenge than listings especially when ownership of the upstream weir and leat sits with others and any right of removal of water from the stream flow has lapsed ..........

However caution is required and seeing that a previous owner has insulated the roof it would appear that they had plans that went beyond restoring the mill that they did not see through.


Title: Re: water mill advice please
Post by: todthedog on September 13, 2019, 11:03:43 AM
One of those odd quirks owning a Welsh water mill does not give automatic right to the water. Folks we know own and have painstakingly restored an old mill for flour milling. They were lucky and have 17C paperwork to prove right to use the water.  Other mill owners do not have this right which can be extortionate or impossible to obtain. It is evidently a bone of contention among  mill owners.