Navitron Renewable Energy and Sustainability Forum

Announcements & News => SHOW US YOURS.... (pics of installed systems) => Topic started by: linesrg on April 15, 2017, 07:02:33 AM



Title: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on April 15, 2017, 07:02:33 AM
Good Morning All,

Woke up at 0345 this morning, my body is still swinging around to UK time!!!

A few photo's of the CTC Gsi 12 installation that occurred during my last leave.

The first is a pretty boring picture of the field after the 2 x 400metre ground loops were installed.

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Ground%20loops%20covered_zpstc0mo00x.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Ground%20loops%20covered_zpstc0mo00x.jpg.html)

The 2-way manifold with pipes to the house not yet connected.

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Ground%20loop%20manifold_zpsyvk4zwec.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Ground%20loop%20manifold_zpsyvk4zwec.jpg.html)

Solar ET framing being constructed.

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/ET%20Framing%20being%20installed_zps9srogldm.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/ET%20Framing%20being%20installed_zps9srogldm.jpg.html)

Immersun T1060 under crude testing.

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Immersun%20under%20test_zpse9mhzymj.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Immersun%20under%20test_zpse9mhzymj.jpg.html)

Immersun T1070 on the end of some 45metres of CAT5 cabling to the sensor.

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/T1070%20Transmitter_zpsdfygpnxd.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/T1070%20Transmitter_zpsdfygpnxd.jpg.html)

Part way through installation of the heat pump and heat store.

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Partly%20installed_zpshv3zza9g.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Partly%20installed_zpshv3zza9g.jpg.html)

Another install picture.

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Heat%20Pump%20Pressure%20Vessel_zps1q2jkuqa.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Heat%20Pump%20Pressure%20Vessel_zps1q2jkuqa.jpg.html)

and another.

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Topside%20Overview_zpsnlopzpj8.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Topside%20Overview_zpsnlopzpj8.jpg.html)

CTC Solar Controller.

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Solar%20panel%20control%20unit%20%20pressure%20vessel_zpsczlhdu4i.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Solar%20panel%20control%20unit%20%20pressure%20vessel_zpsczlhdu4i.jpg.html)

Solar ET charging kit.

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Solar%20ET%20Charging%20kit_zpsmri4forl.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Solar%20ET%20Charging%20kit_zpsmri4forl.jpg.html)

CTC Control Box in situ.

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/CTC%20Box%20Installed_zpsuksl5zmz.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/CTC%20Box%20Installed_zpsuksl5zmz.jpg.html)

View inside CTC Control Box - lots of money for empty space?

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Inside%20the%20CTC%20Box_zpsduce5ium.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Inside%20the%20CTC%20Box_zpsduce5ium.jpg.html)

Stelrad K3 radiator in Utility Room.

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Stelrad%20K3%20Radiator%20in%20Utility%20Room_zpskafgsns1.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Stelrad%20K3%20Radiator%20in%20Utility%20Room_zpskafgsns1.jpg.html)

Pit prop as access hole to get the old hot water cylinder out is created and extended to fit a new trapdoor.

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Pit%20Prop_zpscn3uo1ll.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Pit%20Prop_zpscn3uo1ll.jpg.html)

Photo of installed 59 solar ET tubes.

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Solar%20ET%20Panels_zpsfrbeucmd.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Solar%20ET%20Panels_zpsfrbeucmd.jpg.html)

It took 4 top-ups of the ground loop before the air pockets were eliminated which had both the installers and myself worried but it has been OK now for over 2 months.

As I think I may have said elsewhere the system hasn't been optimally set-up until yesterday as far as the ET side is concerned as the default factory setting for the External Heat Source (EHS) or heat store is 70 degrees C i.e. the system would only make use of the heat in the heat store if it reached that temperature. Unfortunately when the system was set-up the maximum allowable temperature was 70 degrees with an automatic cooling down taking over above that. Now that I have reset this to 30 degrees the heat pump circulated the radiator water through the heat store and took it down from 58 to 32 degrees with some intermittent low level heat being provided via the ET system during the day which maxed out at only 47 degrees due not much sun!!. At least the system absorbed that energy now that heat is being extracted as intended.

As I finish typing this it is 0630 and the sun is shining and there are blue skies although I'm sure the wx forecast was for showers.........

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: todthedog on April 15, 2017, 08:00:03 AM
Looking good thank you for sharing. ;D


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on April 16, 2017, 02:54:45 PM
Good Afternoon,

Well its been grey and showery here today yet as can be seen from the photo below the solar EWT panels are putting some energy into the EHS.

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/EHS%20Charging_zpspb4thiq4.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/EHS%20Charging_zpspb4thiq4.jpg.html)

At the same time and although the heating isn't actually 'on' at the moment the system is circulating low temperature background heating and actually sourcing it from the EHS as this photo shows.

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/EHS%20Active_zpslleap6ih.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/EHS%20Active_zpslleap6ih.jpg.html)

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on April 20, 2017, 09:53:00 AM
Good Morning All,

A quick photo after I attached a battery to the Lorentz tracker yesterday having left it pointing south all winter. I'll find out today if it will behave itself!! It had developed a habit of tracking to the east in the morning and then staying there, I suspect it may be wear in the actuator drive mechanism.

Yesterday was a good day from an energy gathering point of view. Between the solar ET and the solar PV (via the Immersun) the heat store went up to 60 degrees C and the energy was used overnight via the radiators and the store is down to 34 degrees this morning.

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/DSCN0534_zpsfxfxzaw5.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/DSCN0534_zpsfxfxzaw5.jpg.html)

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: Tigger on April 20, 2017, 10:45:10 AM
I love that tracker, we need some time lapse photos for a full day of tracking......


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on April 20, 2017, 01:41:37 PM
Tigger,

I'll see what I can do one day when I'm at home and get myself sufficiently organised.

Right now I'm chuffed that it is working OK so far today. I'm beginning to think it may have been more a battery orientated issue. I put a new old (desulphated) battery on it from the old Polo yesterday. This is backed up by a LM2576HVT based voltage supply set to 13.7V.

The initial indications were good (after the battery was attached) as it went through the 'normal' start up procedure which sees it move all the way to the east and then through a full swing to the west and then back in steps to the mid-position. It then has a 'think' and did start tracking west towards the sun before settling at due south overnight.

When I got up this morning it was heading fully east and, as I type this, it is heading due south. Fingers crossed.

Yesterday the heat store got to 59 degrees and overnight the radiators extracted heat down to 34 degrees and now the heat store is back up to 51 degrees as a result of both the solar ET and Immersun diversion. I'm away from the house shortly (heading in to Aberdeen to go kayaking!!) but if the sun continues I'm hopeful the heat store will get up over 60 degrees as I've altered the heat pump settings to allow it.

We are intending to fit a Mira Adept Eco BIV mixer shower in place of the existing Mira Elite 2. The latter was the only viable option 15 years ago given we were on a spring fed supply with a maximum supply pressure of 1.3bar (on a good day). The Adept will utilise hot water from the heat pump/ heat store rather than using 10.2kW of imported electricity so makes obvious sense and was a part of the decision to go down this route in the first place.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: dan_b on April 20, 2017, 02:07:51 PM
+1 for a timelapse of the tracker in action over the day.
Looks a great set-up you've got there.
Thinking of a wind turbine next perhaps?


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on April 21, 2017, 12:30:31 AM
Good Evening All,

Things were going quite well this morning. Again I wasn't expecting quite so much sun so things were cooking nicely. The first picture is the Heat Pump overview (note solar panel temps)-

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Heat%20Pump%204_zpsrd604x5t.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Heat%20Pump%204_zpsrd604x5t.jpg.html)

This screen shows the EHS charging and up to 58 degrees C -

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Heat%20Pump%202_zpsc27fmeur.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Heat%20Pump%202_zpsc27fmeur.jpg.html)

This screen shows the DHW being heated from the EHS -

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Heat%20Pump%203_zpsavqrw8np.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Heat%20Pump%203_zpsavqrw8np.jpg.html)

This picture shows the Immersun was contributing as well -

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Heat%20Pump%201_zpsi6d5igqk.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Heat%20Pump%201_zpsi6d5igqk.jpg.html)

What can't be shown is that about two minutes after the last picture was taken a whole load of grey clouds came over and the whole process kind of 'died a death' which is the way of solar energy I guess. The real pain was that with the system having decided to heat the domestic hot water (I believe because it saw that the heat store had reached 58 degrees) and insufficient heat being sunk into the EHS it decided to start the brine pump and compressor to finish the job.

dan_b - I'd love to get a wind turbine in but we are in too sheltered a spot. I have all the necessary parts for Hugh Piggott design (save the blades). We also have a small burn running down one side of the property but need to gain ownership of an adjacent piece of land to utilise it for a micro hydro turbine.

I'm currently looking at just how low cost I can make an add-on solar PV system to charge a battery bank as being non-FIT I can buy everything second hand.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: Tigger on April 21, 2017, 09:04:49 AM
Excellent stuff Richard, I have serious envy going on.......


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: kibi on April 21, 2017, 10:31:42 AM
This is fantastic! Those ET tubes are really cranking even in less than ideal conditions.
Well done, keep the updates coming.


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on April 21, 2017, 03:48:55 PM
Good Afternoon All,

For those of you not familiar with how an 1859 Aberdeenshire farmhouse was constructed the following pictures will provide some insight. This is the Dining Room after the bulk of the lath and plaster has come out. The first photo shows the size of the gap between the floorboards and the wall, it is at least 2" most of the way around -

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Gap_zpstfucubu1.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Gap_zpstfucubu1.jpg.html)

You have the normal lath and plaster set-up then nailed to battens so what 3/4" of material between the room and whatever extreme of temperature exists externally as the space under the floorboards is vented to the outside and this directs the cold air up to the floor above -

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Ceiling_zpssnuzjbrz.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Ceiling_zpssnuzjbrz.jpg.html)

The fibreglass was inserted by me when the heating was upgraded 15 years ago to act as a kind of draughtproofing. Essentially underfloor, behind the walls and the ceiling space were directly connected to the external air.

We have ripped most of the upstairs apart and shoved 90mm Celotex between rafters and then overlaid with another 50mm with all vaertical walls using 50mm Celotex. There is still some work to complete. The Utility Room and the kitchen has been done. The kitchen is the only space so far with UFH.

We've retained the original skirting either to re-use or as a pattern -

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Skirting_zpstagnrssa.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Skirting_zpstagnrssa.jpg.html)

This picture shows a part of the cornice, we've retained sample but don't think an exact copy is available although it could be replicated at a mere £130 a metre!!!!

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Moulding_zpssnx1q7bc.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Moulding_zpssnx1q7bc.jpg.html)

The existing K2.0700.0800 radiators on their way out. When the heating system was installed we had to get the installers back in and they had to replace both the radiators in this room, both radiators in the Living Room and the radiators in both front bedrooms as the originals simply weren't up to the job. Given they were local installers I was a bit surprised that they had underestimated the actual heat losses.-
 
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Radiators_zpsyo1rvqag.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Radiators_zpsyo1rvqag.jpg.html)

I'm almost at the point of starting to remove the flooring ahead of the builders coming in and laying a base to lay the Celotex on prior to the plumbers coming in to install the UFH.

What fun. All this needs doing as part of reducing the amount of work the heat pump has to do an thus have it operating in the most efficient range.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on April 21, 2017, 06:15:50 PM
Good Afternoon Again,

Less sun today meaning a lower level of activity. Still the first picture shows the overview again:-

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Friday%202_zpsklufwjbi.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Friday%202_zpsklufwjbi.jpg.html)

The EHS being 'charged' -

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Friday%201_zpskp5n3vt6.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Friday%201_zpskp5n3vt6.jpg.html)

The EHS 'active' on providing energy to the heating circuit (HS) -

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Friday%203_zpsbyy7yy9g.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Friday%203_zpsbyy7yy9g.jpg.html)

and a 'Smiley' Immersun -

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Friday%204_zps0dc26ngs.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Friday%204_zps0dc26ngs.jpg.html)

Again shortly after the pictures were taken the heat pump decided to 'dump' the EHS and started the brine pump/ compressor. It has since stopped the compressor again and the EHS is currently providing heat to the radiators. It's kind of grey'ish here at 1742 and the solar ET is putting out 52 degrees and the EHS is at 49 degrees so still putting some heat in to the EHS only about 0.1kW.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on April 24, 2017, 07:03:34 PM
Good Evening All,

I'm just about done stripping out the Dining Room -

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Partition%20wall%20iwo%20door%20to%20Hall_zps3jj2tm4v.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Partition%20wall%20iwo%20door%20to%20Hall_zps3jj2tm4v.jpg.html)

The insulation arrived today -

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Dining%20Room%20Insulation_zpsj6m7kqbi.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Dining%20Room%20Insulation_zpsj6m7kqbi.jpg.html)

and as the weather people said it snowed today -

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Snow_zpsylpvhhls.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Snow_zpsylpvhhls.jpg.html)

The sub-base is now due to be laid on Friday.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: Pressure on April 25, 2017, 01:23:19 PM
Brilliant project!


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on April 27, 2017, 01:13:05 PM
Good Morning All,

This probably isn't the best place to post this but as my Lorentz tracker has been mentioned here then the issues I've been having with it might as well be detailed here.

I came home on the 13th and decided to power up the tracker again having had problems last leave with it and deciding to just leave it pointing south. As mentioned above I thought the problems might be battery related and yesterday confirmed it was.

The tracker was fine for the first two days and then it started playing up. Yesterday I tried three times to 'reboot' it i.e. disconnect power and then re-connect an push the 'Manual' button. No joy it just didn't want to play. Attach one of my trusty old Gunson's chargers to said battery and it started up and did its thing.
It parked itself overnight i.e. pointed south and this lunchtime it is performing as it should.

Clearly the mains powered power supply I've attached is being 'pulled' down by the state of the battery.

I need to look at a new battery or need to use the existing power supply to charge a big gathering of capacitors (I have plenty available)??? I need to resolve this powering of the actuator issue for once and for all as I can't leave a battery charger out there 24/7.

There is wear in the actuator as there is wobble in the frame when you shake it but given how much weight this actuator has had to move in the last 8 1/2 years that is hardly surprising. The Satellite Superstore do replacement Superjacks at around £130 should it become necessary.

The thing that gets me is that Lorentz supply a fart arse 5AHr gel cell within the plastic control box, realistically this wouldn't have lasted very long, thinking back it didn't.

Regards

Richard



Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on April 27, 2017, 01:33:08 PM
Good Afternoon,

The builders are away for today.

Hardcore laid ahead of tomorrow's concreting.

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Hardcore%201_zps9rhwqfw8.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Hardcore%201_zps9rhwqfw8.jpg.html)

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Hardcore%202_zpsjxqbu4st.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Hardcore%202_zpsjxqbu4st.jpg.html)

The hearth has been removed from the fireplace for now -


(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Hearth%20removed_zpsyaknkhto.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Hearth%20removed_zpsyaknkhto.jpg.html)

Slate removed in one piece -

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Slate_zpsbnrz6ovk.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Slate_zpsbnrz6ovk.jpg.html)

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: todthedog on April 28, 2017, 07:14:31 AM
Good luck hope it goes smoothly! :crossed


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on April 28, 2017, 10:56:58 AM
Good Morning All,

The boss builder is keen as he was here setting up the mixer at 0715.

They are well on with the job -

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Sub-base%201_zpsut0dpwz8.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Sub-base%201_zpsut0dpwz8.jpg.html)

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Sub-base%202_zpsgtjqlrdh.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Sub-base%202_zpsgtjqlrdh.jpg.html)

Plumbing department threatening to turn up 0800 on Tuesday.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on April 28, 2017, 05:11:52 PM
Good Afternoon,

I'm on the lookout for whichever feline decided it was a good idea to inspect the newly laid sub-base  >:(

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Bloody%20Cat_zpstjuokecu.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Bloody%20Cat_zpstjuokecu.jpg.html)

Mental note to self - stick glazed unit back in window frame ASAP after top screed laid.

I've also been unwrapping the Ecotherm and sorting out the 120mm for Monday, can't say I'm impressed with the pile of what would appear to be non-recyclable plastic wrapping or three bits of polystyrene -  

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Environmental%20Wrapping_zpsb71qtngg.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Environmental%20Wrapping_zpsb71qtngg.jpg.html)

I presume the insulation manufacturers include this when justifying the impact of manufacturing the insulation in the first place?

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on April 30, 2017, 03:01:59 PM
Good Afternoon All,

Picture of the EcoTherm going in -

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/ecoTherm%20going%20in_zpswvfijnkr.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/ecoTherm%20going%20in_zpswvfijnkr.jpg.html)

Stopped for the Sochi GP so will be back at it soon.

Not a bad day for the solar ET and Immersun.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on April 30, 2017, 07:47:26 PM
Good Evening All,

How's it go - Houston we have a problem.

The two photo's show the existing wooden floor slopes to the tune of about 2.5cm over the 4.8mtrs of the room. Neither Kate or I needed this today but it is what it is and needs addressing.

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Furthest%20from%20window_zpszfmrouyf.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Furthest%20from%20window_zpszfmrouyf.jpg.html)

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Nearest%20Window%20wall_zpshmxdt2xc.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Nearest%20Window%20wall_zpshmxdt2xc.jpg.html)

We need to get a laser levelling device in and use the existing kitchen floor as a reference and find out what level we need to work to.

This also needs to be considered before the new front door gets installed. We could do without this headache as well.

The only positive news is that the EHS has gone from 30 degrees C this morning to 61 degrees C at the end of the day.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: todthedog on May 01, 2017, 06:39:09 AM
Such a pity after all your work. I'm sure Biff source of all knowledge on things building will be along soon.  Fingers firmly crossed that you find a solution without too much hair pulling.


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: Sean on May 01, 2017, 08:12:17 AM
Take the PU out and a thin screed on top of the new slab to suit.

Did whoever laid the sub-floor have any instructions as to what levels to work to ?


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on May 01, 2017, 09:03:17 AM
Good Morning All,

Sean - removing the insulation doesn't alter the fact that the existing house wooden floor appears to be sloping. Any Supaflo (or similar product) poured screed is still going to find its own level. I guess you could lay a sloping floor using conventional fine concrete!!!!!! I would still need to take the 120mm insulation out and go with 100mm to provide some depth at the 'shallow' end.

I'd welcome any observations Biff might have but I think as a minimum we're still going to have to get a site survey done.

The guys that put the sub-base in were aware they needed to allow 185mm (120mm for the insulation and 65mm for the screed) from the top of the base. I guess they should have detected that there was a problem. They had a laser leveller. I guess having set the level at whichever point they did they just kept working from there?

It's a bank holiday here but I'l still try raising the lead contractor's rep later this morning as I want to know if I'm completing the insulation install.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: Sean on May 01, 2017, 09:21:25 AM
a dry screed, not self levelling .....


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on May 01, 2017, 05:17:55 PM
Sean,

I hadn't thought of that route!

Not surprisingly nobody has gotten back to me today so I'm continuing with Plan A for the moment. My thinking is that we need to establish a level in the house and the already laid kitchen floor is it i.e. the determining level as it ties in with the existing suspended floor at that end of the house, unfortunately the other end of the house isn't at quite the same level, as I found out yesterday.

I've now laid the EcoTherm and taped the joints and part way through 'tanking' prior to the UFH piping going in. I'm not going to secure anything to the walls yet just lay the plastic sheeting for now pending developments tomorrow.

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Plastic%20sheeting_zpsi8esb88t.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Plastic%20sheeting_zpsi8esb88t.jpg.html)

Useless day for harnessing 'free' energy but 'harvested' 12kW yesterday - 7kW from the solar ET and 5kW via the Immersun. It could have been more but SHMBO insisted on doing a shed load of laundry.................

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: Sean on May 01, 2017, 06:18:47 PM
As there's another insulated slab going in you just need someone competent at dry screeding to the agreed FFL (minus coverings) - your levels will likely be all over the place in a structure of that age - lasers levels should be banned from your house, just mark at the openings where you want the screed to top out at.


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on May 02, 2017, 05:15:16 PM
Good Afternoon All,

Lots of energy being harvested today (ended up at 12kW from the ET and 6kW diverted by the Immersun).

I now have a plastic soft bristled brush jammed in the end of a length of 22mm copper pipe so that I can reach the lower bird fouling on the ET tubes.......

On a more positive note I've now wired both immersions in the EHS to the Immersun unit, as the EHS has now gone over 70 degrees I'm listening to the Immersun clicking back and forth between both immersions as it is now exporting energy to the grid. It has diverted 5.7kW to heating the EHS.

The solar ET system had also shut down as the EHS had reached the 70 degree cut-off point I reset it to the other day. The ET manifold went up to 102 degrees so I've now reset the EHS tank to 75 degrees.

We really need to get the non-electric shower fitted as I don't use the bath and Kate is now away back into Aberdeen for the rest of the week. I have a tank of hot water and no real use for it - bizarre really. The new shower is due to get fitted shortly.

The man from the builder will be here tomorrow armed with a laser leveller and we can then decide the way ahead.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on May 03, 2017, 03:15:44 PM
Good Afternoon All,

Panic over - well kind of. Armed with a laser leveller we've determined that the kitchen floor is only 5mm higher than the window end of the front room so only a 5mm step in to this room once the screed is poured.

Just waiting to find when the plumbers will be back to put the UFH piping in.

Gained 12kW out of the solar ET and 6kW diverted by the Immersun yesterday.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on May 04, 2017, 11:41:20 AM
Good Morning All,

Well weíre now kind of back on track. Thatís the two UFH loops installed and the troops away so Iím left putting the Hall floor back together.

The screed will be laid a week tomorrow apparently.

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/UFH%20Loops_zpsfmkgaifm.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/UFH%20Loops_zpsfmkgaifm.jpg.html)

We gained 14kW from the solar ET and 8kW diverted by the Immersun yesterday. The EHS got to 78 degrees C at the end of the day.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on May 05, 2017, 09:19:52 AM
Good Morning All,

I call this submission Immersion Woes

OK so having more money than sense I went out and bought a Immersun T1090 Immerlink unit and having got back from canoeing last night tried setting it up (CT for inverter output to be fitted tomorrow).

I followed the instructions supplied with the device and couldnít get the amber Gateway Status LED to go from Amber to Green and resigned myself to having to phone Sisemís Technical department this morning.

Hang on I thought, Google is your friend so I did some Googling and found the following link-

http://www.marshflattsfarm.org.uk/wordpress/?page_id=4154

From reading this I found that I needed to set the Cloud IP address. Having done this I unplugged the T1090 and re-connected it and I got two green LEDís, yippee I thought and came back downstairs and tried logging on to myimmersun. Still no joy and on going back upstairs the Gateway Status LED had gone back to Amber.

A part of the T1090 set-up calls for checking the firmware on the Immersun which Iíd done but there didnít appear to be any way of Ďforcingí the Immersun to check. Having no other option than to power it down thatís what I did 10 minutes ago, lo and behold it goes in to what can only be called a Ďfirmware updateí mode.

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Immersun%20Downloading_zpsjcvrpd9l.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Immersun%20Downloading_zpsjcvrpd9l.jpg.html)

I wouldn't mind all this faffing about but I've been in direct contact with those awfully nice people at SISEM very recently and none of this was mentioned. I've now got to sit around waiting for the update to complete. Time to go out and connect up the CT to the inverter live output. Thankfully I still have some CAT5 cable left from connecting up the other CT from the live incoming tail to the T1070 Wireless unit as the inverter live is about 8 metres from this unit.

Regards

Richard



Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on May 05, 2017, 02:05:33 PM
Good afternoon All,

Well all is now well and the CT for the inverter output has been fitted and is clearly operational. I've been in contact with SISEM and they are still referring me to an out of date instruction sheet for an Immerlink which makes no mention of iCloud or any suggestion of the necessary IP address.

The Immerlink hooked up to the BT router -

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Immerlink%20at%20Work_zpsddlwp5l1.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Immerlink%20at%20Work_zpsddlwp5l1.jpg.html)

Picture showing my mobile phone accessing the system -

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/New%20Icon%20on%20Immersun_zpsnwjbrtdc.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/New%20Icon%20on%20Immersun_zpsnwjbrtdc.jpg.html)

What it looks like on my mobile -

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Mobile%20View_zpsjkzbhhzc.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Mobile%20View_zpsjkzbhhzc.jpg.html)

The CTC internet unit has been ordered today so I need to get on with running the cable.

More good news in that the postie has just delivered my FIT's statement from SSE. Hopefully it will appear in my bank account shortly.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on May 06, 2017, 05:57:01 PM
Good Afternoon All,

Having 'pushed' the heat store yesterday I found this morning I''d tripped the lower immersion in the EHS! As it was a sunny afternoon I decided to raise the cut-off on the EHS to 82 degrees C. Having reached this the system switched off but the system induced cool-down which operates when the ET manifold gets to 120 degrees kept cutting in and then as the heat in the lower part of the EHS migrated upwards the heat sensor reached 85 degrees C and the tank cool-down process then started.

I only noticed the cut-out had operated on the lower immersion when the Immersun burst into life this morning and went straight to charging the higher immersion having determined the lower was 'Hot'. All part of the learning process I guess. I now know there is a reset button.

I'm not too sure Kate was too impressed whilst we were in Tesco's this afternoon and I was able to check on the Immersun courtesy of Tesco's wi-fi.

12kW from the ET solar and 7kW from the Immersun yesterday. The heat store peaked at 85 degrees last night and was down to 32 degrees this morning.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on May 11, 2017, 09:08:52 AM
Good Morning All,

I'm monitoring how all the bits are working on a daily basis (SWMBO thinks it very sad as do my sons).

Previously we've utilised some 64% of our solar PV output but in the time I've been home (since April 14th) the utilisation has been up at 84%.

Currently waiting on SSE Connections reverting about any PV system expansion before moving on to, possibly, implementing some form of battery storage system. I'm monitoring/ buying bits in the background with fingers crossed.

Regards

Richard



Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on May 13, 2017, 07:46:59 PM
Good Evening All,

Well after only a 3hr wait for the Breedon concrete truck to turn up the screed has been 'poured' -

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Screed%201_zps0c1jrlub.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Screed%201_zps0c1jrlub.jpg.html)

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Screed%202_zpsgmecmmpb.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Screed%202_zpsgmecmmpb.jpg.html)

It seems to be taking a while to set but the house is a wee bit cool at the moment. So far at least two woodlice have met their end crawling across it that we can see and two bits of wood have dropped down from the ceiling  :( .........................

On a more positive front my cheap and cheerful Growatt SP2000 has arrived -

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Growatt%202000_zpsyg5hiw0e.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Growatt%202000_zpsyg5hiw0e.jpg.html)

Aided by my eldest son I've been out cleaning 8 of my somewhat neglected Trojan T105's and they are now all on charge and being desulphated as I'm trying to do the battery storage bit on the cheap if I can.

I've run a mains socket in to power the Growatt.

SSE have indicated that they'll want between £200 - 300 + VAT to carry out any 're-inforcement' but essentially seem to have approved my system being expanded. I'm now looking to get a local solar install electrician to assist with filling out a G59.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: Bodidly on May 13, 2017, 09:42:46 PM
Looks great. Slow drying is good as stronger  :)


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on May 13, 2017, 10:50:58 PM
Good Evening All (again),

A picture of the batteries being 'recovered' -

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Batteries%20being%20recovered_zpsvsb0rixu.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Batteries%20being%20recovered_zpsvsb0rixu.jpg.html)

A wonderful time to find you've all but run out of distilled water.........

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on May 15, 2017, 10:59:12 PM
Good Evening All,

Well having sourced some distilled water we now have more batteries being 'recovered' (still to get a desulphator on one) -

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/More%20batteries%20being%20recovered_zpszl3qzsmb.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/More%20batteries%20being%20recovered_zpszl3qzsmb.jpg.html)

Aided by my eldest son we mounted the Growatt and SMA and ran one of two PV cables today. I'm away down to Glasgow for a medical tomorrow so no more progress until Wednesday.

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Units%20mounted_zpso4h4mgdb.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Units%20mounted_zpso4h4mgdb.jpg.html)

The new floor is still drying out, I've now stuck a fan on at the doorway to increase the ventilation and the floor is starting to show signs of 'going off'.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on May 16, 2017, 05:10:16 PM
Good Afternoon All,

Here's a technical question for them what are qualified to answer or assist with.

Assuming this Growatt unit actually works and I have enough T105's to form a battery bank then I will have one source of charging these batteries i.e. the PV panels.

One 'drawback' I see with the Growatt system, if it can be called a drawback, is that it doesn't allow for off-peak/ Economy 7 charging. If I install suitable relays/ switches in the cables between the Growatt and the battery bank i.e. DPDT there would be nothing stopping me using a mains powered 48V charger to charge the batteries off-peak and come the expiry of the off-peak period switching back to the batteries being charged via the Growatt?

Seems simple enough to me and I may have suitable Allbright devices on hand but need to look in to the 48V charger side.

The graph below shows how the battery recovery is going -

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Battery%20Recovery_zpsexayypkh.png~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Battery%20Recovery_zpsexayypkh.png.html)

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on May 18, 2017, 08:39:02 AM
Good Morning All,

Well the jury rigged testing of the Growatt yesterday shows it appears to be fully functional connected to some panels and an SMA SB1700. Hopefully once the batteries are charged/ recovered I'll be able to test that side.

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Picture2_zpszjtissbh.png~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Picture2_zpszjtissbh.png.html)

Now I need to commit to buying the extra panels...................

I see I've made over 95% utilisation of solar PV generated on site over the last 6 days.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: Sean on May 18, 2017, 10:14:09 AM

One 'drawback' I see with the Growatt system, if it can be called a drawback, is that it doesn't allow for off-peak/ Economy 7 charging. If I install suitable relays/ switches in the cables between the Growatt and the battery bank i.e. DPDT there would be nothing stopping me using a mains powered 48V charger to charge the batteries off-peak and come the expiry of the off-peak period switching back to the batteries being charged via the Growatt?

Seems simple enough to me and I may have suitable Allbright devices on hand but need to look in to the 48V charger side.



Those who have considered it in the past (when the costs of a replacement bank are included) have concluded that it's not ecconomically viable - electricity purchased from the grid is very cheap.



Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: Tinbum on May 18, 2017, 10:47:08 AM

Seems simple enough to me and I may have suitable Allbright devices on hand but need to look in to the 48V charger side.



I've been using Eltek chargers with my system/ energy diverter for the last 3 years and been very happy with them.


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on May 19, 2017, 01:04:16 AM
Good Morning All,

The battery recovery programme is going OK, the average is now up to 6.5V. Battery 12 isn't picking up currently but is on the weakest desulphator. Might need to cycle it out for now and start on another.

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Battery%20Restoration%2018th%20May_zpsy5wrtckj.png~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Battery%20Restoration%2018th%20May_zpsy5wrtckj.png.html)

Floor in Dining Room still 'going off'............. Glazing outfit have fitted the new front door and one window. The other is propped up in the Hall.

EHS cooking at 71 degrees C and I've seen 95.3% utilisation of Solar PV generated electricity over the last week and gained 45kW of heat from the Solar ET.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on May 20, 2017, 11:27:29 PM
Good Evening All,

Battery recovery ongoing and most batteries continuing to respond with the exception of Batt 12 which seems to be heading south! I know batteries being desulphated can do this prior to recovering but I have my doubts about this one currently.

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/170520%20Battery%20recovery_zpszztp9shc.png~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/170520%20Battery%20recovery_zpszztp9shc.png.html)

Might think about taking the best 8 for a trial run with the Growatt. Tomorrow would have been a good day as we are being promised sun all day but apparently I'm going kayaking........

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: Tinbum on May 21, 2017, 11:37:48 AM
Richard I'd be interested to know who made the desulphators.


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: Mostie on May 21, 2017, 04:43:36 PM
He sells them, I have one currently running on a diesel starter battery, with solar panel.


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on May 21, 2017, 10:38:51 PM
Good Evening All,

That's me hobbling about having bruised my knee exiting the kayak this afternoon. Battery recovery continues with the latest figures below. Battery 12 will get one more day to show signs of recovery before being taken out and replaced.

There is no immediate prospect of a great deal of sunny weather so I think I'll end up implementing my Economy 7 charging for now just to 'test' the system.

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/170521%20Battery%20Recovery_zpsvbkfbfmz.png~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/170521%20Battery%20Recovery_zpsvbkfbfmz.png.html)

Too much opposition from cheap Chinese competition means I no longer sell our desulphators.

I think I may have secured a genuine Growatt 5kWhr lithium battery having gone to effort of recovering the Trojan's.........

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on May 22, 2017, 11:57:08 PM
Good Evening All,

Well a couple of pictures showing 8off Trojan's now connected to the Growatt:-

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/48V%20Battery%20Bank_zps3md79ms8.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/48V%20Battery%20Bank_zps3md79ms8.jpg.html)

The next shows the batteries connected to the Growatt, it is all very much work in progress:-

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Growatt%20Battery%20Pack_zpsyf1weqzw.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Growatt%20Battery%20Pack_zpsyf1weqzw.jpg.html)

As I understand the G59 application it requires the addition of a G83/2 capable inverter as a minimum. Given I only want to add around 1650W of panels what inverter would suit???? An SMA SB1700 is only G83/1 as far as I can tell.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: Countrypaul on May 23, 2017, 07:38:24 AM
As I understand the G59 application it requires the addition of a G83/2 capable inverter as a minimum. Given I only want to add around 1650kW of panels what inverter would suit?Huh An SMA SB1700 is only G83/1 as far as I can tell.


You're adding 1650kW of panels, I don't think there is anyway a SB1700 will allow you to get the most of of all those.  ;D


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on May 23, 2017, 08:27:49 AM
Countrypaul,

Thanks for that, post edited.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on June 07, 2017, 11:53:09 PM
Good Evening All,

Growatt and PV expansion is on bit of a back burner currently.

The focus has gone back to the refurbishment of the Dining Room - part of the 'big' project to make the whole house more energy efficient

Once the floor had gone off sufficiently the joiners have been in and erected most of the framing except in to the window recess until the new window is installed.

Prior to them arriving I stuffed the upstairs floor joists with 200mm of fibreglass held in place with netting.

I'm now on with installing the rigid insulation -

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Insulation%20going%20in_zpssh9bcvkn.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Insulation%20going%20in_zpssh9bcvkn.jpg.html)

The plumbers have now been back to install the Mira Adept Eco BIV shower along with modifying the water supply to provide pressurised hot as well as cold water  -

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Mira%20Adept%20BIV%20Shower_zpsmwtewpau.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Mira%20Adept%20BIV%20Shower_zpsmwtewpau.jpg.html)

Nothing too exciting there you might think? Well it replaces a Mira Elite Mk 2 which was a 9.8kW unit so we're now using hot water derived from either solar PV, solar ET or the GSHP.

Mind I do now have to 'repair' the plasterboard wall in my younger son's bedroom -

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Thomas%20Bedroom_zpsulkpn4u2.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Thomas%20Bedroom_zpsulkpn4u2.jpg.html)

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: TT on June 09, 2017, 04:58:27 PM
That wall looks great!
Hoping to do the same soon, was that any particular foil tape or just ordinary foil tape as used in ducting installs?


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on June 10, 2017, 07:26:31 AM
TT,

I just use 'normal' aluminium foil tape. Installing the large pieces of insulation is pretty quick but the smaller bits and the taping is very time consuming................

I'm just about ready to start the 25mm overlay part today.............

Window installers due today (yes a Saturday) as they overran on another job on Thursday. The joiners will then be back in on Monday to complete the framing around the window and complete the insulation install. Hopefully a start will be made on plasterboarding whilst I'm away on a course next week.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on July 03, 2017, 09:15:29 AM
Good Morning All,

Due to pressures elsewhere I haven't been able to make any progress on the Growatt front. The Dining Room is progressing though and has now been plastered. We're still trying to sort out replacing the original plaster mouldings or a very similar pattern.

The plumbers were back this weekend to take out the circulating pump for the UFH and fit a bypass/ bleed arrangement (using a Zilmat/ Inta automatic bypass valve). This allowed me to fit a TRV to the Hall radiator which will hopefully allow the heat pump system to run at an overall lower temperature than last 'winter'.

Despite isolating all radiators I still ended up draining the system and had to pour a whole lot of liquid back in through an upstairs radiator and we're still trying to get rid of air in the system on both the heating and DHW circuit.

Hopefully the heat pump heating circulating pump will have enough 'grunt' to circulate water around the whole system.

I have installed Danfoss RM24 thermostat's in the kitchen and Dining Room wired back to a Danfoss FH-WC 24V controller as it was stuff I had in a box from when the kitchen UFH was installed.

I'll post pictures later once I've found the lead to download the pictures............

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: eabadger on July 03, 2017, 09:50:11 AM
do you not have a separate pump on the ufh? i have 3 eco modulating pumps, one on ufh one on wood back boiler and one on the new heat pump.
have i gone over the top pump wise?
dont plan to use heat pump in winter as wood does all our cold needs.

steve


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on July 03, 2017, 11:47:18 AM
Good Morning All (again),

Pictures as promised, firstly overview of UFH manifold although nothing special:-

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Overview%20of%20UFH%20manifold_zpsdajcaogs.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Overview%20of%20UFH%20manifold_zpsdajcaogs.jpg.html)

The most recent change i.e. fitting of bleed valve and re-fitting of isolation valve:-

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Close%20up%20of%20bleed%20valve_zpskegxnif4.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Close%20up%20of%20bleed%20valve_zpskegxnif4.jpg.html)

and, finally, the heating wiring 'centre':-

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/View%20of%20control%20box_zpscxjy1ebv.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/View%20of%20control%20box_zpscxjy1ebv.jpg.html)

Now back to trying to vent all the air out of the system..........

Steve - time will tell whether we need to put a pump back in but it would need to be 'modulating' so as to not 'steal' all the flow from the rest of the system as its predecessor did.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on July 03, 2017, 10:41:19 PM
Good Evening All,

Well the latest 'toy' turned up today. It was what three years ago now that I noted the 'howling gale' coming back through the Elica extractor hood in the kitchen. Clearly the conventional pivoted flap on the outside wall wasn't terribly effective so I started looking for an improvement.

After some internet searching I ordered a Helios vent flap which uses a mains powered bimetallic strip as far as I can tell and has proved to be utterly useless in that it won't allow the extractor to be used at anymore than the 1st setting and doesn't always close effectively.

Aided by my wife I ended up buying a 'professional' vent flap and actuator which now needs fitting and will have to wait until my next leave as some kind of 'hood' or 'enclosure' will need to be sourced. As far as I can tell there is no ready provision of 'total' isolation readily available on such as cooker hoods.

We also have a 150mm extractor in the Shower Room with a conventional non-return flap which isn't overly effective and irritates our youngest son no end and will also be fitting another extractor on the bathroom in due course.

This is what the actuator and vent flap look like:-

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/New%20vent%20closure_zpsiqncyty7.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/New%20vent%20closure_zpsiqncyty7.jpg.html)

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/New%20vent%20closure%20actuator_zpsv6nyt0mw.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/New%20vent%20closure%20actuator_zpsv6nyt0mw.jpg.html)

It may seem over the top but I don't see what other solutions there are?

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: pdf27 on July 04, 2017, 01:12:46 AM
We had a sprung flap non-return valve in the pipework for our bathroom extractor fan in the last place which worked really well - didn't open until there was a significant positive pressure, and pretty well sealed with something like silicone rubber around the outside of the flaps. It'll be a problem with kitchen extractor fans, however, due to the grease in the air which will probably force the seal slightly open.


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on July 04, 2017, 07:51:56 AM
pdf27,

We used to have a simple 'hair' spring loaded type previously and it used to 'oscillate' as well.

I find it strange that in these days of increasingly tight building regulations that there aren't more 'engineered' solutions to the ventilation systems we're now required to install.

How do you install a cat flap in a Passivehaus????

I finally got around to replacing the filter element in our water pumping 'plant', what a horrid brown colour it was. The picture below shows my set-up before I box it up again. The unit hanging off the baling twine is a heater - I need to install this a little more professionally but as the baling twine does the job..........

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/mobilewelder/Pressure%20Filter_zpsv0awrwvf.jpg~original) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/mobilewelder/media/Pressure%20Filter_zpsv0awrwvf.jpg.html)

Still venting air from the system but at least we managed to get three showers and a bath out of the system yesterday evening!

Having managed to get some radiators bled of air and the TRV's wound down to the required settings we did get flow in both UFH circuits so we'll see how it goes as autumn sets in although given a temperature of -1.7oC was reported somewhere in Scotland overnight maybe sooner?

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: eabadger on July 04, 2017, 08:08:43 AM
i have autovents on all my rads and floor and at high points, we did have issues with air but no more, especially since the new water pumps, which dont suck air in on the open vented side, but still pump up 3 floors high.

steve


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on July 04, 2017, 10:54:14 AM
Steve,

The plumbers modified the domestic water to pressurised on the last visit and I had assumed the central heating/ heat pump was also changed over. Currently I'm struggling to work out where the air might be coming from as a fair amount has been vented. I might have to venture into the attic space shortly.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: eabadger on July 04, 2017, 04:00:43 PM
so you have no f&e tank? my old stanard pumps on full pelt were causing suction, probably due to my diy plumbing but all maybe due to hight of house, when pump was on if you open bleed valve in atic bedrooms no water came out, so changed to some bargain modulating pumps at £59 and never had issue since, i already had the autovents but they may have added to the issue with old pump, no air no noise no probs now.

steve


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on July 04, 2017, 11:26:20 PM
Steve,

Things are getting back to normal now so my focus is moving elsewhere and something a little less high tech, roof repairs. Having removed the sandstone ridge tile (which split!!!!!!) I could get on with replacing slates:-

(https://s1.postimg.org/58ow7bsfbf/Ridge_Tile.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/58ow7bsfbf/)

One day I'll be too old to be working off roof ladders............

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: eabadger on July 05, 2017, 09:19:56 AM
they hang roof tiles here!! no nails in the top, we have s/s hooks that support the slate at the bottom they hook over the laths, very fast and seems to last.
have you got a slate scissors just got some and they are also brilliant, made here in france but very expensive here, cheaper of amazon by far.

another funny thing here, no roof ladders, i spent ages trying to find some, they make their own on site out of cobbled together lath, then drop them in the gutters which are put up with this in mind.


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on July 06, 2017, 07:07:13 AM
Steve,

I know the regular slaters around here use slaters axe's but there is a local guy who produces a guillotine type device which I use. It can only be used on the ground due to its size but is very effective.

I now use Hall hooks for slating repairs or copper tingles depending on circumstances. The former must be somewhat like the hooks you describe. Had to break out a 'new' ridge tile. I then mixed up a full 25kg bag of non-hydraulic lime mortar to finish the job and used the 'spare' to fill in gaps in the steading wall.

Previous repairs to the property have been done in sand/ cement but I now use lime.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: todthedog on July 06, 2017, 07:40:20 AM
Steve +1 for the scissors so easy to use.
Even an idiot like me can do a good job. Worth the money I bought half shares in a pair with a chum who also had a roof to do.
Amazing the uses that left over hooks can be used.


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on October 09, 2017, 10:50:18 PM
Good Evening All,

My ongoing struggle with SSE over FIT payments goes on. The readings I submitted prior to going away in early July were entered in to my 'old' account apparently so having harassed them with my latest readings I see I now have a pending payment to my bank account - hooray.

It's now 10 months since the heat pump and all associated paraphernalia was installed and the savings from this and other 'rationalisations' are becoming clearer.

We were paying a total of circa £323 a month for energy 18 months ago and this is now down to circa £142 a month. This is a combination of the efficiency of the heat pump over the LPG condensing boiler, replacing the old 9.5kW electric shower with a 'conventional' one driven by hot water produced by the heat pump, reducing the battery charging for the standby generator from 24hrs to Economy 7 charging only, one of the bigger savings has been reducing the excessive usage of the 300W/ hr electric airer from 24hrs a day to Economy 7 usage only (currently actually off completely).

It also includes the fact that the heat pump and Immersun are making more use of the electricity produced on site.

As noted elsewhere SSE will allow me to expand my system but I'm struggling to see the economic sense in doing so. I'll need to see if I can have a sensible dialogue with them as my planned expansion will need to be larger than planned to make it 'viable'.

We have lost energy over the last two months with the solar thermal system being 'airlocked'.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on November 09, 2017, 09:30:26 AM
Good Morning All,

It's a sure sign that autumn is its way as the mice are back!! That's several been zapped by the electronic mouse traps. It has also 'forced' me to get on with properly blocking the old cat flap hole which is the number one easiest route in for them along with the exhaust hole for the old Stanley range, the fibreglass has had its day.

Aided by Kate we are now going around finding all the 'drafts'. Having been here 17 years I have finally put draft strips on the bottom of the Utility Room doors.

I have still to fit the whizzo vent flap to the kitchen extractor.

(https://s1.postimg.org/2scvaxnfy3/Vent_Flap.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/2scvaxnfy3/)

I've also been playing with the heat pump settings. It has been running on the default 'heating' curve since installation whereby it is expecting to need the radiators at 50 degrees C for an outside temperature of -5 degrees C. I have progressively bought this down to a 42 degree setting. The internal temperatures are being maintained and, more importantly, we have reduced the heat pump short cycling. I've incorporated a before and after photo now I've found one showing the short cycling.

(https://s1.postimg.org/1cn1rop8zf/Heat_Pump_Trace.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/1cn1rop8zf/)

(https://s1.postimg.org/9ia7h4a9tn/Previous_heat_pump_trace.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/9ia7h4a9tn/)

The big spikes are for the hot water.

The installers have been in to refill the Solar ET loop which did cure the problem but only short term as it is back to where it was. I see from reading another thread it could be the expansion vessel which is at fault. I need to chase them again.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: Tinbum on November 09, 2017, 10:04:45 AM

It's a sure sign that autumn is its way as the mice are back!! That's several been zapped by the electronic mouse traps. It has also 'forced' me to get on with properly blocking the old cat flap hole which is the number one easiest route in for them along with the exhaust hole for the old Stanley range, the fibreglass has had its day.

I had the temperature at the top and bottom of my wood burner showing 888 degrees C on Sunday morning, found the 2 cables eaten through, repaired them, then less than 12 hrs later they had been eaten through again!!


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: Nickel2 on November 09, 2017, 10:23:31 AM
Ah yes, autumn and mice. My back door opens at ground level with no step, so from this time on I have to make sure I shut the door promptly. If I leave it open longer than a few seconds, the little devils all rush in as a gang, then I have to spend the next 4 hours baiting then emptying the mousetrap. I now have one of those ultrasonic rodent deterrent things plugged in in the kitchen that hopefully will do it's job, so that I won't need to leave a trap down.


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: dhaslam on November 09, 2017, 11:38:47 AM
I had an early version of the electronic deterrent  and when I was moving house I found a mouse's nest underneath.  Are the newer ones any better?


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: djh on November 09, 2017, 09:40:17 PM
Ah yes, autumn and mice. My back door opens at ground level with no step, so from this time on I have to make sure I shut the door promptly. If I leave it open longer than a few seconds, the little devils all rush in as a gang, then I have to spend the next 4 hours baiting then emptying the mousetrap.

My wife gets annoyed if we leave a door open for few seconds and get some flies in as a result. Despite being in the country, we haven't seen any signs of mice. I don't know why?


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: Tinbum on November 12, 2017, 09:56:04 AM
Had to repair one of the cables again this morning.  :(


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on November 12, 2017, 11:12:00 AM
Tinbum,

Now I've blocked up the old catflap and the old Stanley vent hole and got all three electronic mouse traps up and running we've had no mice caught for two days and no sound of them gnawing the Celotex in the kitchen roof space.

I now need to complete the hole to install a permanent hatch for any future mouse invasion. This hatch will also allow me to insert more fibreglass above the 50mm Celotex, more as a 'draught limiter' than for its thermal properties.

Currently on with some very overdue draught tracing. All the big obvious ones have been eliminated but it is clear from when the Shower Room fan goes on that there is a draft coming in from under the door despite the Velux window being open.

I have recently instigated timer switches on both routers and switched off everything in the Living Room which was on 'standby' only.

I now need to get back to the solar tracker which is currently performing irregularly............

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: Mostie on November 12, 2017, 01:46:54 PM
I'm at 10 mice and counting in the last 3 weeks, now employed a second mouse trap  :crossed


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: Nickel2 on November 12, 2017, 02:05:23 PM
I was going to buy a trap as I seem to have lost the old galv. steel job. Brer mouse saved me the effort and expense by walking across the kitchen flip-top recycle-bin and falling in. I only found this out when I went to empty it and saw one ex-mouse stiff in the bottom.


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on November 13, 2017, 10:14:45 AM
Good Morning All,

The picture below shows a whole 24hrs with the heat pump running continuously with three hot water spikes.

(https://s7.postimg.org/48thw1fpz/Latest_last_24hrs.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/48thw1fpz/)

The water going out is averaging 38 - 39 degrees with the outside temperature down to 1degree C overnight. This is much better than the situation after the system was commissioned in early December. As noted elsewhere I'd decided to have the Hall radiator as the relief device  but this lead to not being able to adequately control the system and water was being heated to 45 - 50 degrees C going out from the heat pump. It didn't take a genius to work out this was taking more heat out of the ground than necessary leading to undue cooling and also burning more electricity in the first place. Knowing that we were going to be dumping the electric shower for a 'pumped' one it was obvious that we would be increasing the amount of heat being taken out of the ground in future as well.

Changing the Hall radiator back to a TRV and installing the bypass has been successful in allowing the system to run at a lower temperature.

Additionally now we have 'refurbished' the 'Dining Room' it is now being heated to 18 degrees whereas previously the space was unused and we just used to keep the two radiator TRV's at the No.1 setting as 'frost protection' so we are heating more of the property. In truth this space is still unused as it isn't finished yet.......

I mention all this to so that people who might be hesitating about going down the heat pump route in an older property know it can be done (bearing in mind we have done a fair amount of work to 'improve' the property in the first place). Our (2017 equivalent) LPG bill for 2002 would have been £2400 alone. Our current total energy bill i.e. heating + electric is looking to come in at less than £1700 and I'm working on that.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: titan on November 13, 2017, 03:43:39 PM
Why does your dhw need four boosts every 24 hours, would it be more economic to have a greater differential on the tank and have one boost. Heat pumps are less efficient at dhw temperatures. I have a 305 ltr unvented tank and only use the gshp to heat the water every couple of days and try and try match that to the best PV output. There are only two of us but we always have plenty of hot water. I have also found dropping the flow temperature just a couple of degrees makes little difference to the house temperature but a noticeable difference to the power consumption. I have also found reducing the lower cut in temperature reduces the stop/start frequency with no noticeable difference to room temperatures.  



I meant to say I used to live near Rothienorman for three years, although that was some time ago.


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on November 13, 2017, 04:33:38 PM
Titan,

Why four boosts - a good question, even more so as, currently due to a bug in the software, the system takes the water to 58 rather then the set 55 degrees C!

Yesterday evening's peak was after I got in and noted the DHW temperature was down so boosted it before I took a shower. The 0500 - 0700 slot is the daily programmed period to take advantage of the off-peak electricity. The peak around 2200 will be post my shower and the second peak after this will, I guess, be related to the fact that the heat pump only heats DHW for 20 minutes and then reverts to the central heating function. I assume it didn't manage to heat the DHW completely so returned to it after a period of central heating duties????

I have already extended the 20 minute DHW heating period to 30 minutes in an attempt to reduce 'cycling'.

CTC allows for three different DHW levels. The lowest is called Economic and has a max temperature of 50 degrees, Normal has a max of 55 degrees C and Comfort which has a maximum of 58 degrees (this last level gives out water at a maximum of 45 degrees and dilutes the 58 degree water to give a 'larger' volume).

The Mira Adept shower is preset to deliver water at a maximum of 41 degrees and experience to date shows it needs the 55 degree hot water setting water to operate properly. Mira recommend 60 - 65 degrees supply with a minimum recommended deltaT of 12 degrees C between hot water supply and shower outlet. That being the case the minimum inlet hot water temperature would need to be 53 degrees C.

The heat pump has an immersion heater which has only operated for a total 54hrs against the 3434hrs of the compressor since installation. I'm not sure quite what decides when the immersion takes over.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on December 20, 2017, 09:34:38 AM
Good Morning All,

Circa the 6th December the heat pump decided to throw a 'wobbler' and generated an alarm code. Having contacted the installer it code indicated an earth fault on the compressor inverter PCB and the heat pump went into limp home mode. This means it uses the 'immersion heater' to continue to operate.

The downside to this is that the consumption goes up so I've gone from circa 32kw a day to circa 85kw and that's with the thermostat wound down 3 degrees C.

The first replacement PCB was the wrong one despite CTC being advised of the heat pump serial no. and there are two guys here now fitting the 'correct' PCB. Fingers currently crossed.

I'll be harassing CTC for payment for the excess electricity being consumed (by my calculations this amounts to £98.07).

At the same time my ongoing battles with BT internet connectivity rumble on. When I got back to the house yesterday the connection was appalling and down to 0.44Mb. After commencing a 'Chat' and resetting the router connectivity just about died. I then had to contact them via my satellite broadband (I think the person in India missed the irony of that). This morning I have no BT broadband connectivity at all. Having commenced another 'Chat' with the Asian sub-continet I was put on to the 'Repair Team' in Cardiff. Apparently a reset is required. Only 6 weeks ago a engineer came out and had to reset something at the exchange.

I am getting really p****d off with BT. Referring to another thread I now have a MIMO broadband antenna booster and router sat here in the kitchen and a 2Gb Three SIM to trial their coverage here. I need to contact Three to find out which direction their antenna is and then this weekend assisted by my eldest son we'll get this booster aerial rigged and give it a try.

I sincerely hope I'll be able to stick two fingers up at BT............

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: Tinbum on December 20, 2017, 10:15:43 AM
BT really are the worst company ever.

I had a fault for over 6 months which was only found/rectified when I applied for a second line. (leaking heat shrunk joint on our pole.) It must have cost them thousands in engineers wasted time.

The second line took months to install. They really are incompetent. I went to the regulator in the end but they were also useless as they have no powers over openreach who BT put it all down to. I then had to raise a complaint with openreach as they didn't even finish the work off on the 50 pair cable at the bottom of our pole.

I've now cancelled the contract on the second line as BT were going to put the price up which gave me the option to leave even though under contract.


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on December 30, 2017, 09:17:06 AM
Good Morning All,

SWMBO is not a happy bunny or certainly wasn't last night when there wasn't enough water to have a bath, much cursing of the heat pump installers and the removal of the electric shower unit!!!!!!! We will need to have a further group discussion with our two sons and the timing of their showers.

It is something which needs managing (and can be managed) now the heat pump is in place but I'm 'publishing' it here for the information of others. I could fit the 6ltrs/ min shower head but I have to agree with the boys it really isn't enough to get what I would call a shower and I know SWMBO struggles to wash the shampoo out of her hair with such a low flow.

I'm trying to work out whether leaving the hot water function at 20 minutes is better than my having changed it to 30 minutes. I guess leaving it at 20 minutes (and I believe there is an equal duty cycle (to be monitored) means that in two hours there would be three periods of heating equalling an hour which is as much as you'd get by changing it to a 30 minute cycle. The difference is that you'd get 40 minutes of heating in the first hour with a 20 minute cycle?

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: Countrypaul on December 30, 2017, 03:08:23 PM
Have you considered adding an inline electric heater to the shower supply? Perhaps not as overll efficient as you would like, but its use would normally be limited to those occasions when the shower management has been comprimised by your sons lack of consideration/lack of thought and would prevent the problem of your wife getting the shampoo on and then finding herself in a cold shower where the blame will always go your direction!





Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: gnarly on December 30, 2017, 08:29:49 PM
Hi Richard
Iím intrigued... can you explain what the problem is to us non-experts?
You have a powerful heat pump, but the house heating is on (and it is cold outside?) therefore very little spare capacity to heat the DHW once the hot water is used up?
So the heat pump is basically on continuously and multiplexing between radiators and hot water?
Does it have a sensor on the DHW tank, but it canít do any faster heating because it is already having to heat the house?
Many thanks


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: Iain on December 30, 2017, 08:35:11 PM
Hi
Quote
.I'm trying to work out whether leaving the hot water function at 20 minutes is better than my having changed it to 30 minutes. I guess leaving it at 20 minutes (and I believe there is an equal duty cycle (to be monitored) means that in two hours there would be three periods of heating equalling an hour which is as much as you'd get by changing it to a 30 minute cycle. The difference is that you'd get 40 minutes of heating in the first hour with a 20 minute cycle?

Can you set it to prioritise HW at certain times to allow quick top up. i.e. HW only between 0600-0700 etc to attain a certain temp before dropping back to heating.

Just like a standard boiler system
Iain


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on December 30, 2017, 09:33:41 PM
Good Evening All,

I'll attempt to answer the questions as best I can or at least to the limit of my understanding.

The heat pump system was fitted and kind of up and running about a week before Xmas 2016 so it has been running just over a year now. Last winter the electric shower was still up and running but it was always the intention to remove it and go over 100% to the heat pump. I must admit to having certain reservations but given a power outage both the heat pump and the shower would have been taken down so 'we' went with removing the shower.

The system can either heat the DHW or run the central heating.

The standard CTC hot water heating option/ default is a 20 minute cycle before it goes back to central heating mode. I haven't actually stood close by to observe whether after having gone back to the central heating cycle it reverts to the DHW after 20 minutes.

The system has three levels of hot water heating:

Economic - heats the water to 50 degrees and distributes it at 45 degrees C

Normal - heats the water to 55 degrees C and distributes at 50 degrees C

Comfort - heats the water to 58 degrees C but distributes it at 45 degrees C

The manual lies in that it states there is a temporary extra DHW water facility which is immediately available. This isn't true as it won't work during a pre-set DHW heating period - it doesn't operate as an executive override and nor does it override the 20 minute 'cycle' mentioned above.

Currently I 'force' the system to heat the water to 58 degrees C on the Comfort setting (during the early evening) and then drop back to the Normal setting so the hot water goes out at 50 degrees to the shower. As noted elsewhere the minimum hot water temperature recommended for the shower is 53 degrees C.

I monitor the water temperatures then 'force' the water heating on the 'Comfort' setting to get the water back up to 58 degrees C.

I utilise Economy 7 to heat the water from 0500 - 0700, this is the only 'fixed' hot water heating.

I'm not quite sure where the temperature indicators are in the tank but I do know that the one is 'misleading'. Every time the system reverts to DHW mode the one temperature indication drops off by several degrees before the temperature indication starts creeping up as the heat pump imparts heat to the water. I feel the hot water tank possibly needs another sensor or one of the current ones re-locating.

Yes the heat pump is running 24/ 7.

The other factor when the whole family is living here is that the increased usage of hot water overall also becomes a factor in that the tank of how water is constantly being depleted.

It is a bit of a pain to have to closely monitor the hot water like this.....

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: TT on December 30, 2017, 10:41:21 PM
Doesnít your heat store have back up immersionís fitted?

If so I would use that to boost the DHW from the heat pump


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on December 31, 2017, 08:33:43 AM
TT,

The heat store does indeed have immersions fitted, two of them. They are limited to a maximum temperature of 68 degrees. I would have to heat the 300ltrs in the heat store to say 68 degrees (currently at 19 degrees). It is an option but not one that I would want to follow as a fair amount of energy would be used up.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: TT on December 31, 2017, 11:11:18 AM
Maybe,

But if the electric is used for DHW as a boost, itís keeping the cop of the heat pump high.
If showers are a known time frame, I would switch on immersionís, no point in making the heat pump work hard/ reduce its life span, by wanting everything off the heat pump.

The heat pump could them keen the water at a reasonable fall back temperature during the day




Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on December 31, 2017, 02:15:47 PM
TT,

I'm just trying to get my head around this.

The heat store would take around 17kW to heat to to around 68 degrees. It would then give up some of this heat to the DHW at some point. I don't know at what point the DHW/ heat store would reach equilibrium but let's say 50 degrees??? This leaves the heat store at 50 degrees.

In theory the heat pump would look at this and utilise this energy for central heating but equally it would look at it the first time the temperature in the heat store went above the circulating heating water temperature anyway meaning all the energy you would be trying to put into the heat store to heat the DHW (indirectly) would be 'stolen' by the central heating demand.

Thus I can't see that it would work.

I think I'll just need to stick to direct intervention.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: TT on December 31, 2017, 03:24:09 PM
The manual states the gshp has a 5kW immersion, so it must be a commissioning issue if this and the immersionís on the heat store canít deliver decent DHW


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: pdf27 on December 31, 2017, 06:16:54 PM
Just to get this straight, we have a thermal store:
  • 300 litres capacity
  • Maximum temperature 58įC
  • Delivering water at 50įC
  • Instantaneously heating cold water delivered at ~5įC
  • Using a coil heat exchanger to do so

That isn't going to have a lot of capacity within it - the store is filled with water, meaning 300 litres cooling through 8įC is equivalent to 53 litres being warmed through 45įC. I would really question the use of a thermal store in this application - because you're using a heat pump the headroom between the minimum usable temperature and maximum deliverable temperature from the heat pump is tiny. They're presumably doing it to avoid the need for a Legionella Pasteurisation cycle as you would otherwise have with a standard cylinder, but heating to 60įC once every week or two using an immersion heater would hardly be a big impact.
One caveat here - the performance of a unit using a counter-flow heat exchanger taking feedwater from the top of the store and returning it to the bottom will be significantly different. Because the water is returned to the tank at something close to the feedwater temperature, far more heat can be extracted from a given volume of water and thus the equivalent store size is much larger.

The reality is that things aren't as bad as that calculation makes out - showers will be thermostatically controlled and so are unlikely to see any impact before the water supply drops to 40įC, giving an equivalent capacity of ~150 litres (2-3 decent showers). I still think a separate hot water tank with a weekly Pasteurisation cycle off the immersion heater would be a far better solution in your case however.


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: brackwell on January 01, 2018, 09:07:38 AM
The Mira Adept shower is preset to deliver water at a maximum of 41 degrees and experience to date shows it needs the 55 degree hot water setting water to operate properly. Mira recommend 60 - 65 degrees supply with a minimum recommended deltaT of 12 degrees C between hot water supply and shower outlet. That being the case the minimum inlet hot water temperature would need to be 53 degrees C.


I really do not get this statement at all.  For yrs i have used therm..mixing showers and i set the tank temp to give the shower temp i want when the mixer setting is almost at max hot. My tank temp is 42C in general but have had a shower with tank temp at 40C and shower on max.

I do not understand what those booster moments are all about,they seem a complete waste of time as shortly after the tank temp was back to where it was.  I would completely forget the booster idea and fit a inline water heater (https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Plumbing/d20/Water+Heating/sd3105/Stiebel+Eltron+Electronic+Instantaneous+Water+Heater/p41729)  close to the shower head. This will boost and ensure a hot shower whatever the circumstances and very min energy input and not destroy the COP.  This will improve efficiency and therefore capacity of your system.

Ken


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on January 01, 2018, 03:54:10 PM
Good Afternoon All,

The replies are appreciated.

Just to clarify things the DHW comes from the 229ltr tank within the heat pump enclosure.

I have run a test in the last three hours. I set the Immersun on boost to heat the EHS. It took about 2.5hrs to heat it from 19 to 45 degrees thus using circa 6.75kW of electricity. At this point the heat pump made the EHS 'active' as the water circulating in the radiator circuit was 40 degrees. Thus I don't see that heating the EHS serves any useful purpose as far as alleviating load on the heat pump in the production of DHW is concerned.

The manufacturer's operating instructions are what I quoted for the operation of the shower. I don't doubt the shower would work by supplying it with water at 45 degrees but this would be at the expense of using a larger quantity of 'hot' water from the tank within the heat pump. Would it manage both boys getting a shower without the second person getting 'short changed' as the hot water in the heat pump tank was diluted by incoming cold water?

I could set the heat pump to not start re-heating the DHW until there was a larger dt than the default 5 degrees?

We had another instance of insufficient hot water for a bath last night. Both boys had had a shower. The heat pump showed the DHW was still at 58/ 57 degrees. I knew from experience that this simply wasn't possible (I wold guesstimate that the boys must have used at least 100ltrs of hot water in their showers) and, as I've suggested already, I think one of the temperature sensors in the DHW tank is less than ideally located. SWMBO certainly didn't get a bathful of hot water (again).

The installers have limited the heat pump to 40A (about 9.2kW?) and the electric heater function to 2.9kW. As a matter of interest I've raised the electric heater limit to 5.5kW to see how this might impact the DHW heating process.

Fitting an inline heater kind of defeats removing the electric shower in the first place?

Clearly, it seems, a degree of compromise is involved in running the household on a heat pump? I'm sure we'll get used to it!!!

All further comments/ observations welcome.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: Countrypaul on January 01, 2018, 04:30:30 PM
The inline heaters I looked at would only heat the water if it was below a set point, so for example, if it was below 45C they would heat it to 45C, if it was already above 45C they did nothing.

My understanding is that most electric showers would not work with warm water, this may no longer be true, or maybe it was just the ones we loooked at a long time ago.

The inline heater would work for the bath not just the showers, which might be more important to the peace than just working for a shower, in fact the inline heater could work for all DHW deending on how your plumbing is arranged and whether you wanted it to. Should the HP fail again it would leave you with a backup option. One you get the HW management around showers and baths resolved you could obviously then leave it switched off.


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: pdf27 on January 01, 2018, 04:36:48 PM
Just to clarify things the DHW comes from the 229ltr tank within the heat pump enclosure.
Ah, OK - that makes rather more sense.

We had another instance of insufficient hot water for a bath last night. Both boys had had a shower. The heat pump showed the DHW was still at 58/ 57 degrees. I knew from experience that this simply wasn't possible (I wold guesstimate that the boys must have used at least 100ltrs of hot water in their showers) and, as I've suggested already, I think one of the temperature sensors in the DHW tank is less than ideally located. SWMBO certainly didn't get a bathful of hot water (again).
Is there any reason to think that the sensor is in the wrong place rather than out and out faulty or incorrectly wired? Essentially you've taken half the hot water out of the tank but the system is showing none gone and thus no attempt will have been made to reheat the tank.

Fitting an inline heater kind of defeats removing the electric shower in the first place?
If would if you put the inline heater on the cold line. They're thermostatically controlled though, so if you put it on the hot line it'll only kick in after you run out of hot water and provide just enough heat to stop the shower running out of hot water. So normally there won't be any power consumed, but when you do run out of hot water it's effectively the same as having the immersion heater on in efficiency terms. At £300 or so (https://www.cnmonline.co.uk/stiebel-eltron-instantaneous-water-heater-pr-33373.html) the cost is pretty modest compared to other ways of keeping the wife happy...


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: rogeriko on January 01, 2018, 04:59:15 PM
The hot tank sensor is no doubt towards the top of the tank, therefore if you need a full tank of hot water you must fit a destratification pump to circulate the water from the top down to the bottom. This will solve all your problems. We have done this on several heat pumps where they want baths. Dont forget virtually all heat pumps are made in europe where they do not have baths, just showers. They are not designed for filling baths. Just connect the pump between the DHW flow and the cold return, make sure there are not any valves on the hot flow and dont forget to fit a one way valve.


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: brackwell on January 01, 2018, 05:00:46 PM
Paul just beat me to it.

A normal instant shower uses the power that it is  -9kw ? and dribbles at sometimes as low as 3 L/min because it is heating cold water and it is difficult to use them with preheated hot water as they will lock out as a safety mechanism

There will be many days during the heating period when just a little bit of energy at the last minute will get it to the required temp.  You do realise that the output temp is controlled by changing the current not by varying the flow rate as in a normal leccy instant shower. For the majority of the year you will not be using any leccy at all although i would always keep the HP tank at 35C to get better COP and just add the little bit at the end as and when. The cost savings can be significant because
1) you are not murdering the COP or adding immersion heat
2) you are not holding water at a elevated temp and thus larger heat losses
3) You will never not be able to supply hot water unless you have no leccy
4) You are not creating hot water just to dilute it with cold.

The inline heater will be cheaper than what you are doing at the moment.

There is every reason to change your instant shower.

Ken


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on January 10, 2018, 08:08:59 AM
Good Morning All,

Thanks for the comments/ suggestions. I do intend querying CTC as to their suggested solutions as there is simply too much 'user intervention' currently.

I accept that there will be an element of learning to live with some of the 'limitations' of having the heat pump installed, it would be somewhat ironic if the solution was the fitting of an inline heater having effectively removed an inline heater (in the form of the electric shower) in the first place!

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on January 16, 2018, 03:36:37 PM
Good Afternoon All,

The installers turned up this afternoon to carry out both the annual service and carry out a third flush of the Solar ET system. I know the ground loop took something like about six visits before the air was eliminated.

Our friendly neighbourhood pig farmer, what rents our field, is currently spraying pig pooh - can't wait for the weather to warm up..........

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on January 28, 2018, 08:11:37 AM
Good Morning All,

Positive news to report. Since the last flush of the Solar ET we seem to be back in business again although there is still air (audibly) in the system.

The sun in starting to show itself above the ridge to the south of us now and the Solar ET has been functioning, as has the Solar PV (diverted by the Immersun).

Twice, albeit briefly, the heat pump has shut down and allowed the heating to come from the EHS.

Hopefully I'll see more of this as the sun's altitude increases.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on February 22, 2018, 04:45:20 PM
Good Evening All,

Well according to my CTC mobile app and the myimmersun the solar ET and solar PV diversion seem to be still working. I see the heat pump compressor was only running for 17hr 57mins yesterday for instance meaning the energy for the other 6hrs and 3 minutes must have come from the EHS.

Only 3 1/2hrs until the flight to Aberdeen................. roll on retirement.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: biff on February 22, 2018, 07:14:57 PM
You cannot retire Richard,
                        If you are used to an active life,, retirement is out. Maybe winding down slowly perhaps but after a couple of weeks twiddling thumbs, you will be pulling your hair out. ;D
            Roll on Spring, :crossed
                                  Biff


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on March 02, 2018, 08:49:51 AM
Good Morning All,

We have a 'minor' problem with the external temperature sensor. It gave a strange result the other day when I accessed the heat pump remotely and it said the external temperature was 4 degrees C when I knew that couldn't be possible.

When I got to the house a couple of days later it seemed to be indicating correctly.

Then a couple of nights ago it went from -7 to +3 in fairly short order which wasn't possible.

Last night, and this morning, it is indicating +3/ 4 degrees C whereas my trusty alcohol based device tells me it's -2 degrees C outside.

Time to harass the installers me thinks.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: TT on March 02, 2018, 09:38:40 PM
Can an additional sensor be added and the average of the 2 taken to smooth out any discrepancies?


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on March 03, 2018, 08:25:15 AM
TT,

There is the only the one pair of terminals unfortunately. It would be nice if the installers would respond to my enquiries rather than rely on my chasing them up. OK so it may not be the most important issue they have on their plate at the moment as I'm sure the weather is causing them a measure of grief but a couple of minutes replying to an EM isn't too demanding.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: Tinbum on March 03, 2018, 10:28:08 AM
Could it be a mouse has eaten into the cable and exposed the conductors which are then getting damp?


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on March 03, 2018, 12:42:59 PM
Tinbum,

I had wondered about that. If I could work out exactly how the push fit terminals work (there's me honest enough to admit it!!) I'd take them out and put a meter on the two wires. It's a 150R NTC thermistor according to the manual.

Similarly if I could work out how to get the lid off the sensor housing outside without resorting to brute force and ignorance.............

It has dropped to 0 degrees overnight.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on March 08, 2018, 12:23:06 PM
A combination of the Solar PV and Solar ET have heated the water in the EHS to the point where the system has switched the compressor off in the heat pump.

This allows the circa 1kW to be diverted to greater water heating and the the temperature of the EHS is rising despite heat being removed for house heating which has to be good news.

I've now set the Immersun to allow 1kW of export and the Growatt is now charging the battery.

Currently the best of all worlds??

Regards

Richard
(https://s13.postimg.org/6pybp5gxv/Solar_ET_page.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6pybp5gxv/)

(https://s13.postimg.org/ra35nomf7/Page_showing_EHS_Active.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ra35nomf7/)

(https://s13.postimg.org/fxqk5xo0z/Immersun.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/fxqk5xo0z/)

(https://s13.postimg.org/48mkhzchv/Growatt.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/48mkhzchv/)


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: dan_b on March 08, 2018, 12:34:45 PM
Losing track of what you have in your rig now, but it all seems to be working well!


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on March 08, 2018, 08:59:03 PM
Good Evening All,

That's 10hrs of 'free' heating today courtesy of Solar PV and Solar ET.

Mixed results with the Growatt - still trying to get a Windows based device to talk to it.

Getting a 'Bat T outrange' error message which relates to battery temperature being out of range, this is apparently settable (when I get access).

Having taken the front cover off the battery pack I can see that charging the batteries the other side of the BMS is easy enough as the two cables to the battery pack are screw fitted to the PCB.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: nowty on March 09, 2018, 09:25:15 AM

Getting a 'Bat T outrange' error message which relates to battery temperature being out of range, this is apparently settable (when I get access).


Yeah, i've had that when its been about -5 degrees, it will clear when it warms up.

I think its set to about 0 degrees as default, the manual for the growatt says operating range from 0 to 40 degrees.
But the data sheet for the lithium cells it uses shows it can charge down to -20 degrees so I changed the setting on mine to -10 degrees.



Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on March 21, 2018, 08:55:11 AM
Good Morning All,

I was just on the EST site and I see they are endorsing Endotherm. Does anybody have any direct experience of this product?

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on March 22, 2018, 11:01:27 AM
Good Morning All,

I'm going to be contacting CTC's Technical Manager shortly querying the current logic of the heat pump software.

I had a shower yesterday evening and when I came down I noted the system was heating the DHW. The software noted that the EHS was at 37 degrees C and as the lower temperature in the DHW tank was only 32 degrees C it decided to use some of the heat from the EHS to heat the DHW. On paper this seems logical i.e. extracting 100% of the energy from the EHS.

At the same time as the DHW is heated from the EHS the heat pump switches off. As you can imagine it doesn't take very long to pull down the temperature in the EHS and there is always a 9 minute start up delay on the compressor in the heat pump.

It doesn't seem to make any sense to stop the compressor to extract such a small amount of energy from the EHS?

On a positive front that's the Solar PV and Solar ET heating the EHS and the heat pump compressor is off.
 
Hopefully if the sun continues shining I might see the Growatt battery doing some charging today  :-\

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on March 23, 2018, 02:24:25 PM
Good Afternoon All,

We had quite a good day yesterday up here in Aberdeenshire with some 20.7kW of Solar PV along with circa 10kW of Solar ET. According to the Immersun some 10.9kW of Solar PV was diverted to the EHS.

The EHS was heated from around 35degrees C in the morning with the heat pump compressor cutting out around 1100 and the central heating was supplied from the EHS up until beyond 1930 when I went out so we would have had at least 9hrs 'free' central heating yesterday.

The thermostats on the immersions in the EHS are set to around 70degrees C so in the late afternoon the Immersun directed the excess power to the grid. Unfortunately the sky was filling with cloud so although the Growatt did start 'charging' broadly speaking there was less than 100W from the PV string it had access to.

Part of the point of this post relates to the near equal contribution of energy to the EHS from both the Solar ET and Solar PV. As commented elsewhere on the forum the Solar ET had a much smaller 'footprint' than the Solar PV for near equal energy outputs.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on April 06, 2018, 12:16:25 AM
Good Morning All,

A record day for PV production here with 27.1kW (9.9kW of which diverted to the EHS) according to the Immersun with approximately 4.3kW of that coming from the extra 1.675kW of panels. The Solar ET side produced circa 16kW of energy into the EHS. I'm not sure for how many hours the heat pump compressor was off during the day as I have been out.

Still experiencing problems with the Growatt as despite 7.5kW of power being exported it all seems to have bypassed the Growatt! I'm going to have another look at the system today although the next forecast sunny day will be Saturday. At least I now seem to be able to get a laptop to communicate with it.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: Mike123 on April 06, 2018, 11:29:00 AM
Hi Richard

Then that is strange. All my SP2000's had at least 88% full batteries yesterday and they are set to do Forced Discharge too

What has totally confused me though is my Owl Monitor (saying I'm importing 6.5 amps) compared to my Apollo Gem (diverter) saying I'm importing 0amps and the SP2000's saying I'm importing 0amps! I have another Owl, so I'm going to install that and see what it reads


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on April 15, 2018, 11:48:35 AM
Good Morning All,

Well it is a year now since I started logging assorted data about the heat pump, Solar PV & Solar ET.

My predicted annual usage of electricity was some 12.3MW but the actual figure has turned out to be only 11MW, this could probably have been improved on as we lost the full benefit of any input from the Solar ET from mid-July through to mid-October as previously reported.

The heat pump compressor was off for 13hrs yesterday and the Solar PV made 20.1kW with 9.3kW diverted to the EHS, Iím not sure what the Solar ET input was.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on April 27, 2018, 09:00:06 AM
Good Morning All,

I see the latest forecast for annual electricity consumption from Bulb is down to 10,800kW. The Solar ET and extra PV panels will be doing their bit.

Another point that should be made is that in previous years the Dining Room was left as 'unheated' space i.e. radiator thermostats set to the '1' setting and post the 'improvement' is now heated to 18oC.

The one down side is that it looks like from April 19th the Solar ET is playing up again as I noted the manifold temperature was at 95oC with the circulating pump running at 100%. I've gotten on to the installers much more quickly than previously. Having contacted CTC they are sending a replacement sensor and pump speed control lead.

I remain somewhat sceptical this will resolve the issue but lets see.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on May 04, 2018, 07:48:34 PM
Good Evening All,

Right now as I sit here typing this (and watching Sounds like Friday Night still firmly convinced Kylie couldn't sing in tune if her life depended on it) the entire house is being powered by the Growatt battery only.  ;D

Finally the outside temperature has reached 18oC and the heat pump is off. Even when the heating demand cuts in later the EHS is currently at 56oC so will provide the heat requirement for some time.

The Solar ET system installers should be in late next week to look at the air in the system again. They have decided that maybe the following might go some way to solving the problem - [url]https://www.spirotech.co.uk/products/spirotop-solar//url].

It is, again, very frustrating to be losing energy like this........

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on May 11, 2018, 01:18:23 PM
Good Afternoon All,

That's me changing electricity suppliers again. Just shifted to Economy Energy (from Bulb) to save some £135 a year.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on May 14, 2018, 09:29:05 AM
Good Morning All,

As a part of trying to get the Growatt working 'properly' I've been looking at my electricity consumption and trying to determine which device is giving me an 'accurate' indication.

I need to get back to SISEM as their suggested method of a 'hard reset' didn't work and they seem reluctant to have me start the unit too often! Their CT sensor over by the incoming meter is definitely 'out'. The Immersun has been set to only export 50W as the Growatt CT shows this to equate to circa 350W according to its CT sensor and I'm pretty confident of the Growatt sensor accuracy.

To keep this posting on track I'm sat here looking at the minim+ display and its telling me that my heat pump is using 400W. No problem you might say but it is supposed to be 'switched off'. The domestic CH function is off so the heating circulating pump is off, the ground loop circulating pump is off etc.etc. It isn't the Solar ET operation as there is no difference in indication when it starts up i.e. the minim+ shows 400W at 2300. This is costing me £1.46 a day if true.

I've sent an EM to CTC's Technical Manager to see if he can advise.

Does anybody on here have any observations or thoughts.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: Tinbum on May 14, 2018, 10:15:07 AM
I personally wouldn't trust the Growatt. Certainly I find the online data recording and the app have loads of bugs in them.

Last night I was looking at the display of export on the Growatt and what my sunny boy was showing and there was probably at least a 30% difference. I can't remember the figures exactly but it was notable.


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on May 14, 2018, 10:23:31 AM
Tinbum,

I'm aware I'm dealing with something less then precision laboratory measuring equipment.

My baseline is that both Growatt CT's and the minim+ are aligned within 30W of one another which suggests a degree of accuracy and consistency.

I've just gone and dug out my Sealey MM405 clamp meter. It is showing 1.5A which at 245V gives me 367.5W which aligns well with the minim+ at 400W

The device that appears to be mis-aligned is the Immersun CT sensor.

Regards

Richard



Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on May 15, 2018, 03:42:39 PM
Good Afternoon All,

Phoned the heat pump installers yesterday afternoon in a mildly irritated mood that the Solar ET system 'air' issue still hasn't been attended to. It is work in progress.

Whilst I'll defend the 'benefits' of Solar ET I'm still wrestling with what to do about exported energy when it happens. Yesterday I saw 6.8kW exported and a week ago it was 6.7kW in one day but these figures aren't consistent. It's an average of around 3.3kW a day over the last 15 days for instance.

I'd like to charge the Zoe with this but I'm struggling to see how I can make this happen with the charge point I have installed.

I could limit the amount of energy from the Solar PV that goes to the EHS and allow the Solar ET to do more heating of said EHS but I need this system to be working 100% first. This would help alleviate the issue of excess heat developed by the Solar ET system so could be a win/ win situation.

Thoughts welcome as ever.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on May 25, 2018, 06:49:09 AM
Good Morning All,

According to the Immersun we managed to generate a total of 28.7kW of electrickery yesterday (this includes the Growatt) so a new daily production record figure for the property.

We also managed to export 22.2kW of it as there is nobody there............... Monitoring from afar we were exporting at a rate of 4kW at one point yesterday afternoon.

Still waiting on the Solar ET being sorted - no response to yesterday's EM - should be back onshore later today so if no response might have to take the Zoe on a trip down to Aboyne and speak to the firm directly.

Need to find an economic way of 'capturing' some of that 22.2kW.................. A Zappi is one answer but whilst 'free' charging exists it makes no immediate economic sense.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on June 11, 2018, 10:25:06 PM
Good Evening,

Finally a technician will be around tomorrow to attend to the Solar ET issue. Hopefully the fitting of a Spirovent will allow the air to be properly vented from the system and for the first time since December 2016 the system may actually be air free and function properly.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on June 13, 2018, 09:17:52 PM
Good Evening All,

Well the Spirovent has been fitted. As you can see from the picture:-

1. the outlet pipe and the vent are unlagged
2. the vent itself isn't at the absolute highest point as the return line can be see behind the vent and slightly higher,
3. not clear from this photo are the fact that there is a short length of exposed ribbed piping on the return line which is unlagged.

Hopefully the device will eliminate the air which again, despite another flushing yesterday, was still present this morning when the system flashed up. Hopefully the vent will function as required and the air will 'disappear' over the next few operations.

The installers reply to my EM this morning does not convince me they will attend to the lack of lagging - I need to be mindful as I know there will be 'tradesman' on this forum but work like this does the trade no favours at all and suggests that even when working for a renewables firm not everybody 'gets it'????. I don't know but I'd be interested to hear others views.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: todthedog on June 14, 2018, 07:06:06 AM
When installing mine the instructions were specific that the vent HAD to be fitted at the highest point.



Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on June 14, 2018, 07:52:06 AM
todthedog,

What you mean like these instructions from Spirotech?

https://www.spirotech.com/pgx/_media/en/products/spirovent-solar/downloads/spirovent-solar-autoclose-manual.pdf (https://www.spirotech.com/pgx/_media/en/products/spirovent-solar/downloads/spirovent-solar-autoclose-manual.pdf)

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: Tinbum on June 14, 2018, 07:58:14 AM
They certainly don't take any pride in their work for sure. I have no faith in so called professionals who have a piece of paper that enables them to do the work.


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: todthedog on June 14, 2018, 09:54:20 AM
Morning Richard,
Not identical but similar, as the water exited the frame holding the tubes, I ran the exit pipe and fitted the valve there just before it began it's descent to the tank so it was at the highest point. This was as it was shown in the manual, (more a series of photocopied sketches than a manual). Apart from a top up once or twice a year it ran for 8 years with no other maintenance.
I installed separate circuits in the kitchen to enable me to use hot water for washing machine and dishwasher, which with the benefits of hindsight was a bit of a waste of time. With only two of us in the house I looked to install an instant water heater rather than use the imersion in mid winter for the shower but the way france charges for the supply of electricity would have made this prohibitivly expensive. Hence you never see electric showers on sale there.

Good luck with yours

Tod


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: Tinbum on June 14, 2018, 10:11:03 AM
When installing mine the instructions were specific that the vent HAD to be fitted at the highest point.



https://www.spirotech.com/pgx/_media/en/products/spirovent-solar/downloads/spirovent-solar-en.pdf

page 7 for where to fit


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on June 14, 2018, 12:57:46 PM
Tinbum,

In fairness to the installers this guidance only uses the word 'preferably'..............

The other link gives a clear pictorial indication with a tick and cross indication but even that isn't a 'MUST'.

There is no pressure in the system at all this morning and in the limited sun we had before Hector hit us there was still plenty of aeration to be heard.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: TT on June 15, 2018, 11:50:10 AM
Pretty sure Iíve seen installers with a bin full of glycol and a shower pump connected to the system to remove the air, they never add auto vents.


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on June 15, 2018, 01:55:15 PM
Good Afternoon All,

What fascinates me about the ongoing aeration issue is that the amount of water in the system isn't an awful lot.

It can't be a great deal more than 26metres of what 22mm pipe, let's be generous and call it 30mtrs;

30 x π x 0.0112 = 30 x 3.1415927 (or thereabouts) x 0.00121 = 0.0114m3.

12ltrs of fluid maximum. Just how difficult can it be?

If it were me I'd resort to a funnel and top it up from the highest point with the circulating pump on the minimum setting.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: sam_cat on June 15, 2018, 02:22:08 PM
In a geekier place, I watercool computers, and you would be surprised just how hard it can be to remove the air from those.. 1/2" ID tubing, generally only 2-3 ft, the cpu and gpu blocks and the radiator dont hold much volume either... Bleeding a closed loop with a T piece at the top takes FOREVER and requires slowing the pump speed right down as low as you can, and introducing artificial restrictions to further slow the water.

These days we tend to use a reservoir before the pump, both exit and return to reservoir at the bottom with an upright divider between them (which has some holes but is mostly solid. Water level is  higher than this divider and it works, slowing the water, inducing turbulance and forcing most of the water to go up before coming back down again for the exit from the reservoir. Bubbles zoom around, get to the res and tend to settle out, a loop that previously took days to bleed is now nearly totally bled in an hour.

No idea if its any help in this context, probably not... But thought it interesting.


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: Westie on June 15, 2018, 02:29:02 PM
Good Afternoon All,

What fascinates me about the ongoing aeration issue is that the amount of water in the system isn't an awful lot.

It can't be a great deal more than 26metres of what 22mm pipe, let's be generous and call it 30mtrs;

30 x π x 0.0112 = 30 x 3.1415927 (or thereabouts) x 0.00121 = 0.0114m3.

12ltrs of fluid maximum. Just how difficult can it be?

If it were me I'd resort to a funnel and top it up from the highest point with the circulating pump on the minimum setting.

Regards

Richard

I don't understand why you have this problem....  I have 2 x 30tube 47mm manifolds, the capacity is 6L.  I've replaced the fluid every 5 yrs and have always bled it before changing it to see how much air is in it but there almost none.  I have two manual bleeds at the flow side of each manifold. BTW your system is pressurised type isn't it...?  ie. it has an accumulator? That's where you fill it from and you should pressurise it to about 1 bar cold. I use a garden sprayer to fill it. If you tried to fill it as you described you wouldn't have any pressure in the system... the pressure effectively raises the BP of the fluid.


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: todthedog on June 15, 2018, 03:52:23 PM
With Westie, always topped up and repressurised with an adapted garden sprayer fitted with a screw on adaptor for the system. I pumped Mrs T looked at the pressure gauge (small space).  A genuine 10 minute job.


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: Tinbum on June 15, 2018, 05:18:41 PM
My system has a very small leak, which I haven't bothered to fix as I'm redoing it all in the house referb/extension and it stagnated the other day. I have a spirovent, which is near the top of the system but not at the top, and all I did was re-pressure with some more fluid to about 1 bar while the pump was  running. It was about a 15min job and all's running fine again.


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on June 15, 2018, 06:42:01 PM
Good Evening All,

Interesting comments.

Yes I appreciate that topping up my system using a funnel from the highest point will not pressurise the system.

I've seen a YouTube video showing the use of a simple hand operated sprayer. It would certainly be cheaper than a Rothenberger RP30.

I'm reaching that point when I conclude the 'experts' aren't so expert and that it is time for me to intervene.

It is also time to make a follow up posting on https://rif.est.org.uk (https://rif.est.org.uk) as I was requested to do so some time back - a case of light the blue touch paper and retire to a safe distance.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on June 16, 2018, 01:17:22 PM
Good Afternoon All,

Last night I ordered 10ltrs of solar fluid and today I bought a 5ltr sprayer from Homebase and got a 1/4 to 1/2" BSP and then 1/2 to 3/4" BSP adaptor from the Plumb Centre so I can now attach a washing machine hose from the sprayer to the Solar ET pumping unit.

When the fluid arrives I can get on with bleeding this system myself (hopefully).

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: todthedog on June 16, 2018, 03:11:18 PM
Good luck Richard

This may be grannies and egg sucking,. but when you are ready to connect up, get ready to spay and get the liquid right up to the end of your connecting tube before attaching it to the system otherwise you will inject a whole load of air . Make sure your valve to the system is closed and the pump in non spraying mode before disconecting.
Sounds stupid but I know someone who decided to disconnect without doing it. It was eveidently messy! :angel:

I always assume my level of incompetence and pressurise to slightly higher than required, assuming that I will inject a little air and this will vent in a couple of hours and the system pressure drop slightly back to the required level.

Hope that it goes well.

tod


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on June 16, 2018, 03:21:03 PM
Tod,

I usually try and be very logical about such activities but even still have mis-connected desulfators even when the leads are deliberately coloured red and black.

The advice is appreciated, there certainly isn't any point injecting more air. When I was up there determining if a washing machine hose would fit (it does) I was admiring the air bubbles in the pump flow tell-tale.

It's going to be at least a week.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: desperate on June 18, 2018, 10:35:55 PM
Hallo Richard,

I would always recommend that a gate valve rather than an air bleed is fitted to the highest point you can access on the pipework, this way with a couple of fittings you can connect a pump up garden sprayer onto the valve and force fluid into the circuit and also bleed air back into the sprayer tank. Pump the fluid backwards and forwards a few times and all your air troubles will be over. With a gate valve rather than an air bleed (no matter how fancy) you have complete control of air and fluid into and out of your system. Another good option is Antmans air bleed design, with this you can bleed the highest point of the system from within the roof space. I have both the above mentioned items on my system and I can guarantee getting the system full and completely air free in about half an hour.

Desp


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: todthedog on June 19, 2018, 06:22:13 AM
Great advice Desp. ;D


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: Iain on June 19, 2018, 06:46:05 AM
Hi Richard
I haven't read back through all the thread so apologies if you have already checked this.
I fitted a 22mm upstand just inside the loft on the return pipework with a manual bleed valve on. Although it is about 6" below the top of the system I have never had and issues getting rid of air after a fluid change. I also fitted a 22mm upstand just on the discharge side of the pump to pick up any air as it leaves the pump. I also have a non return valve fitted to stop convection circulation at night. I fitted a bypass valve next to this just to use to aid venting.
Worth checking your expansion vessel pre charge pressure. A lot come with 3 bar pressure which is too high for a solar system. This high pressure stops them working an you end up loosing fluid through the pressure relief valve as the EV can't accept any expansion.
Set the Precharge pressure to 0.2.bar less than the working pressure.
Mine set to 0.8 bar and system runs at 1 bar.
The 2 up stands are about 300mm high and are very effective and simple.
After an initial vent I always check a week later and only get a very minor amount of air out.
Been fitted and working for 11 years now. The only issue I had was the precharge being set too high. Took me ages to find that. Worth checking first.
With no system pressure you need 0.2 bar less than your working pressure in the expansion vessel on the shrader valve on the expansion vessel
Iain


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on June 19, 2018, 09:03:47 AM
Good Morning All,

Thanks very much for your input guys it is much appreciated.

I have submitted your suggestions to my installer on the basis your methods clearly appear to achieve the desired result and theirs haven't.

At this point I intend doing something myself before allowing the installer back on site.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: titan on June 19, 2018, 12:31:35 PM
I am sure this thread would be of interest to people with solar heating problems but would struggle to find it in a thread about a heat pump install.


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on June 19, 2018, 02:24:40 PM
Good Afternoon All,

I would have to agree with titan iro people finding the Solar ET part of this meandering thread. I had decided that as the Solar ET was essentially a CTC add-on to the heat pump system to continue the challenges I was facing with it on the heat pump thread.

All further postings will be on a new thread and, if possible, I'll see how easy it is to extract postings from this thread and transfer them.

Administrator advice on the latter welcome..................

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on July 04, 2018, 10:27:47 AM
Good Morning All,

Just to add to issues being experienced with the Solar ET, the Growatt keeps giving BMS error messages and the Immersun now won't start up because the fan appears to have gone tits up. I'm getting an Error 13 - fan fault.

Isn't technology wonderful?

Current priority is getting my Turner engined Land-Rover ready for Glamis this weekend.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on October 05, 2018, 09:01:10 PM
Good Evening All,

I'm sat here watching 'Have I got news for you' with 445W (655W total demand) of power being provided by the Growatt and the house heating provided by the the heat energy in the EHS, it could be worse.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on October 10, 2018, 07:47:26 AM
Good Morning All,

Carried out the annual filter and UV lamp replacement yesterday so that must be two years since we installed the pressurised water system to go with the heat pump. It has been very reliable to date with only one leak when the top on the UV steriliser worked itself loose.

£64.20 for the UV lamp and filter element.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on November 02, 2018, 11:07:21 AM
Good Morning All,

We're currently enjoying 'blazing' sunshine although it didn't get above the horizon until 10 o'clock....... I really do need to re-locate this property to the other side of the valley!!!!

That's the heat pump just cut out so all FIT registered Solar PV is now heating the EHS, except for the 200W Immersun export trigger for the Growatt and the Solar ET is also contributing to the EHS.

As the heat pump 'runs' 24/7 yesterday it went over to circulating the CH through the EHS for about 5hrs - theoretically 'free' heat.

I continue my love/ hate relationship with the Growatt. Yesterday was somewhat similar to today with sunshine and some cloud, the Growatt was behaving itself and gave back 1.1kW after sundown in addition to the 11.1kW we generated according to the Immersun.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on November 02, 2018, 12:42:31 PM
Good Afternoon All,

Prompted by a recent posting on this forum re installing a Baxi Ecogen Iíve sat down and re-worked figures iro equipment installed here at Courtiestown.

Going back two years we were spending £1875 a year on electricity and £1575 a year on gas making a total energy spend of £3450. Quite frightening really.

We are currently spending £1230 a year on electricity so a saving of £2220 on where we were in overall energy expenditure. It is very difficult to break this down as there are a number of factors which have contributed to this:-

1.   Driving down some wasteful users of electricity and practices
2.   The addition of 1.675kW of solar panels + the Growatt
3.   On and off contribution of Solar ET
4.   Aggressive monitoring of electricity supply deals

We currently get £4135 a year in RHI payments against which we pay out £1344 in EST loans. In fairness the loans run to 10 years against the RHI only being paid for 7 years but right now we benefit by £2791 per year.

In total we are benefiting to the tune of £2220 + £2791 = £5011 a year on where we were. OK so the benefit will reduce as the electricity prices increase over the 7 years, if we call it say 10% then at the end of 7 years we would be circa £32,000 better off than if we had maintained the status quo.

Against this we will owe £4032 in EST loans over 3 years when the RHI stops.

On a less avaricious note one thing I've noticed appears to be happening since the install of the Growatt. In conditions where the sun comes and goes then the Immersun is obviously doing its thing in diverting energy to the EHS BUT I am seeing frequent 'glitches' in the Immersun diversion which I believe is likely caused by the Growatt charging process cutting in and out thus affecting the 'export' as seen by the Immersun CT.

Late Addition - Was sorting through folders on the computer and came across the graph I've attached here to show the reduction in LPG usage at Courtiestown as the levels of insulation/ home improvements were implemented.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: andrewellis on January 10, 2019, 09:09:38 PM
Hi Richard,
this was an interesting read as we appear to be on a similar path to yourself albeit being a year behind you . We are living in the same neck of the woods.  It certainly made me chuckle seeing that we had to go through the same learning curve re the GSHP and family bath management.  I was the only one in our house to have a 14 lpm shower before I quickly installed a flow restrictor I had pre ordered.  I would have had no end of complaints about what we were missing otherwise.  Our heat pump had 2 dhw heating settings  deep in the installer menus which I changed and that made a big difference to comfort.  I wonder if your pump might have a similar setting.  Ours has a faster not as eco charging mode which I turned on in late autumn so that the house temperature wouldn't drop too much as it went through the alternating CH/DHW cycles.  I'd agree with your statement for people interested that with careful calculations a GSHP is perfectly doable for older properties.  It is just a case of making some pragmatic changes and ensuring radiators/underfloor heating are correctly sized.  Like yourselves we have seen a significant decrease in heating bills and a corresponding increase in comfort.  So much so we can't put the wood stove on until its around freezing as despite reducing the size by half from the old one its just too much.

How have you found the thermal store?  I was thinking of how I could utilise our new 6.48 kw solar panels and was wondering about using a thermal store for the CH.  After running some basic calculations, I wasn't sure if the cost of it vs the savings would be worth it.  Also, if the water got too hot during the day can the pumps back off enough to make sure the house is not too hot.  Is there a separate controller for the house side of your loop or is it run from the HP?  I have found this whole process fascinating with many rabbit holes to dive down as I come up with crazy ideas.

I am curious also why you dump the energy in to the store directly rather than powering the GSHP to extract energy from the ground. Do you power the GSHP until the store reaches 50 degrees or so and then use the immersions?
Cheers
Andy


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on January 10, 2019, 10:32:43 PM
Andy,

CTC heat pumps have a standard DHW heating period of 20 minutes thereafter I think it goes back to CH duties for at least 20 minutes before returning to DHW again. This 20 minute period can be extended by the user.

As I have already identified that during the spring/ autumn period CH duties have been performed by the EHS. The heat in the EHS comes from both the Solar ET and Solar PV systems. The number of times this occurs isn't accurately documented but if I'm at home I do monitor things. I'm aware that the more efficiently the Solar ET system works and the lower the circulation temp of the CH water is the more frequently the EHS will perform CH duties. The heat pump controls the use of the EHS for CH duties.

It would be interesting to try and calculate the benefits of fitting a heat store against fitting a battery storage system. I suspect that the latter would be a better bet moving forward.

The heat pump and house base load have first call on any Solar PV generated. Then the Immersun allows 200W of export before anything is diverted to the EHS immersions. The Solar ET contributes when the temperature in the header manifolds is more than 7oC over the EHS water temperature.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on January 28, 2019, 06:22:38 AM
Good Morning All,

I had previously commented to CTC's UK Technical Manager that having paid a fair amount of money for their internet connection device I was a little disappointed at the limited amount of information available via the then available mobile phone app.

I queried him again the other day and he advised that they had a new app. out - CTC Connect+. Downloaded it last night and it does indeed give a whole load more information out and allow me to monitor it more closely when away from home.

I still need to get to the bottom of the Solar ET functionality though.......

Regards

Richard



Title: Re: Heat Pump Install @ Courtiestown
Post by: linesrg on April 27, 2019, 05:31:26 PM
Good Evening All,

Not strictly RE related but today, assisted by eldest son, we got the hearth stone back in to the Hi-Fi/ Dining Room (and using 'proper' Hydraulic Lime Mortar). The flooring people have threatened to turn up in May, not bad for sometime after Xmas.........

It only involved taking it, the stone, in and out the once - should have measured the stone and gap first. I need to ask the joiner what put the framing in what he was using for a ruler as he was only 2cm out......

Now back to picking the bones out of the Sunny Portal Excel data....

Regards

Richard