Navitron Renewable Energy and Sustainability Forum

Energy/Electricity Storage and Use/Grid Connection => Off-Grid, Batteries & Inverters => Topic started by: Bear on May 25, 2017, 12:40:54 PM



Title: Golf Batteries, car batteries & capacitors?
Post by: Bear on May 25, 2017, 12:40:54 PM
I have a 100 watt panel on my garage roof powering a 12 volt 20ah golf cart battery, the regulator only allows use of 10% of the battery's power.
I am over the moon with what I have got so far, 15 meters of led lighting lasts for about four hours, now I would like a couple of hours more and also have my laptop in use.

So here's the question, can I join the 20ah battery with an 18ah battery (12volt system), or will the smaller battery suffer?
I also have a Ultracapacitor 350F SixPack Module, is it ok to use this with my 20ah battery, or even both 20 & 18ah?  

I have two good car batteries going spare, am, I right in thinking that they are no good for off an grid system at all, even if it is for a light work load?

Cheers Bear.


Title: Re: Golf Batteries, car batteries & capacitors?
Post by: Sean on May 25, 2017, 01:26:52 PM
I have a 100 watt panel on my garage roof powering a 12 volt 20ah golf cart battery, the regulator only allows use of 10% of the battery's power.



Could you provide more details as to why ?

Does the regulator have a set of output terminals that you've connected the loads to ?


Title: Re: Golf Batteries, car batteries & capacitors?
Post by: Bear on May 25, 2017, 01:55:39 PM
The regulator (5amp) only allows 10% of the battery's power to be used, so discharge and then heavy charging will not harm the battery; giving it a nice long life.

Yes, all the power used comes from the terminals on the regulator, not directly from the battery.

I'm thinking of running a 12volt cigarette socket to charge the laptop, and later on the system can grow as more demand is needed. 


Title: Re: Golf Batteries, car batteries & capacitors?
Post by: Sean on May 25, 2017, 02:16:49 PM
The regulator (5amp) only allows 10% of the battery's power to be used, so discharge and then heavy charging will not harm the battery; giving it a nice long life.



That sounds rather unconventional, can you post a link to the regulator ?


Title: Re: Golf Batteries, car batteries & capacitors?
Post by: Scruff on May 25, 2017, 02:21:45 PM
Change the cig lighter for an interface that won't melt


Title: Re: Golf Batteries, car batteries & capacitors?
Post by: Bear on May 25, 2017, 03:01:22 PM
Link to the regulator.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201386564644?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&var=500578541058&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT



Title: Re: Golf Batteries, car batteries & capacitors?
Post by: biff on May 25, 2017, 07:49:02 PM
Hi Bear,
       If you allow your battery to drop to 10.5 volts before shutting down, It will crock the battery super quick.
  You need to keep your battery above 12.3volts under load. Once you step below this your battery will suffer.
                                                Biff


Title: Re: Golf Batteries, car batteries & capacitors?
Post by: rogeriko on May 25, 2017, 11:31:02 PM
Forget about the capacitor just connect all the batteries in parrallel ie all the +'s together and all the -'s together and you will have a much more powerful system. You need a voltmeter http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-Digital-LED-Display-Voltage-Volt-Voltmeter-Car-Motor-DC-3-2-30V-VOLT-METER 1-/222425113757?hash=item33c991e49d:g:xqUAAOSwNSxVBEZj so you can accurately monitor battery voltage and not let the batteries discharge too much. Then you can connect things directly to the batteries and not be limited by the low current from the charger output.


Title: Re: Golf Batteries, car batteries & capacitors?
Post by: Bear on May 26, 2017, 05:31:25 PM
Hi Bear,
       If you allow your battery to drop to 10.5 volts before shutting down, It will crock the battery super quick.
  You need to keep your battery above 12.3volts under load. Once you step below this your battery will suffer.
                                                Biff
Thanks Biff, that's good info.

So in effect what your saying is, send the battery to bed fully charged, and only lite use in the day light, unless we have a large enough battery bank to cope with demand down to 12.3volts.
So at night it's ok to drop the voltage to 10.5 volts? This is roughly 10%, I did hear some people drop the voltage by 20%.


Title: Re: Golf Batteries, car batteries & capacitors?
Post by: Bear on May 26, 2017, 06:05:25 PM
Forget about the capacitor just connect all the batteries in parrallel ie all the +'s together and all the -'s together and you will have a much more powerful system. You need a voltmeter http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-Digital-LED-Display-Voltage-Volt-Voltmeter-Car-Motor-DC-3-2-30V-VOLT-METER 1-/222425113757?hash=item33c991e49d:g:xqUAAOSwNSxVBEZj so you can accurately monitor battery voltage and not let the batteries discharge too much. Then you can connect things directly to the batteries and not be limited by the low current from the charger output.
Yes, joining batteries together in this way was what I had in mind.

The two batteries are different capacity, 18ah & 20ah, I thought maybe that at full charge and with no draw the 20ah would over power the 18ah and eventually damage it.  Or is the difference between these two batteries just not worth mentioning?
Also wouldn't the 43 & 45ah car batteries over power the 18 & 20ah deep cycle golf batteries?

 I don't like the idea of not having some kind of automated shut down if the charge drops too low.


Title: Re: Golf Batteries, car batteries & capacitors?
Post by: Sean on May 26, 2017, 06:11:18 PM

So at night it's ok to drop the voltage to 10.5 volts? This is roughly 10%, I did hear some people drop the voltage by 20%.

No, 10.5v is very likely to be way beyond 100% - if you do that a few times you'll likely have killed the battery (permanently)

Can you provide a link to your battery ? - fully discharged is likely to be 11.??v

Discharging the battery down to zero volts is not using 100% of its capacity - I suspect you have misunderstood capacity usage.


Title: Re: Golf Batteries, car batteries & capacitors?
Post by: Bear on May 26, 2017, 06:30:59 PM
So when you talk %, your talking usable voltage range, ie the top one or two volts is 100%.
I took it to mean 12 volts - 10%=10.8% volts. The regulator looks like it is set this way as well or am I reading this wrong? 


Title: Re: Golf Batteries, car batteries & capacitors?
Post by: Sean on May 26, 2017, 06:51:33 PM
........ ie the top one or two volts is 100%.


For a nominally 12 volt battery yes - but the exact range will differ between battery types and brands.


Title: Re: Golf Batteries, car batteries & capacitors?
Post by: Bear on May 26, 2017, 07:42:18 PM
Ah! So when people say they use 10% of the battery's power they actually mean they use 0.2volts?
They must have the battery banks from a ww2 submarine to power their house's. :)


Title: Re: Golf Batteries, car batteries & capacitors?
Post by: rogeriko on May 26, 2017, 07:46:14 PM
Here you go.



Title: Re: Golf Batteries, car batteries & capacitors?
Post by: Bear on May 26, 2017, 07:57:41 PM
Ok, thanks for that. What an eye opener, I had no idea.

And the batts, join them all together irrespective of their values?   


Title: Re: Golf Batteries, car batteries & capacitors?
Post by: Sean on May 26, 2017, 08:10:28 PM


And the batts, join them all together irrespective of their values?   

No, unless they are new and of the same capacity - but if you are using cheap used ones that owe you nothing, you can do what you like with them.


Title: Re: Golf Batteries, car batteries & capacitors?
Post by: Bear on May 26, 2017, 08:40:21 PM
Thanks for all your help guys, appreciate it.

I think I'll look in to capacitors. Although their capacity is small compared with a battery, so is there size & weight, and they can drain them right down, as long as you keep the last volt or two.
 
Now all I need is a supermarket that's getting new tube lights and skipping the old ones :) 


Title: Re: Golf Batteries, car batteries & capacitors?
Post by: rogeriko on May 26, 2017, 09:35:14 PM
Capacitors dont store any energy why would you want them?????


Title: Re: Golf Batteries, car batteries & capacitors?
Post by: oliver90owner on May 27, 2017, 10:04:06 AM
Capacitors dont store any energy why would you want them??

That is exactly what capacitors do!  He has likely read about the super capacitors, graphene and all that.

Good luck to him.  They have been touted as the "coming" storage solution for several years but so far have not yet proven to be a commercial success.


Title: Re: Golf Batteries, car batteries & capacitors?
Post by: rogeriko on May 27, 2017, 10:22:26 AM
The OP is looking at collecting capacitors out of supermarket fluorescent lights. They do not store any energy, maybe 1000th of an amp but nothing usable. Even a car multifarad capacitor will discharge almost immeadiately when connected to a lightbulb.  We are not talking about new super expensive capacitors here.


Title: Re: Golf Batteries, car batteries & capacitors?
Post by: Sean on May 27, 2017, 10:32:25 AM

I also have a Ultracapacitor 350F SixPack Module


I got the impression he wants to use the salvaged florescent fittings for providing addition illumination - he allready has some form of high performance capacitor.


Title: Re: Golf Batteries, car batteries & capacitors?
Post by: Bear on May 27, 2017, 12:28:44 PM
Scratch that idea then.  lol  :)



Title: Re: Golf Batteries, car batteries & capacitors?
Post by: Bear on June 09, 2017, 12:34:03 PM
Just as an experiment I thought I'd give the 350f supper capacitor pack a try on it's own and see what would happen.
It worked ok in the day, draining down to around 10 volts, but at night it ran out after only 5 minutes.  I knew it wasn't going to be good.
I fitted an led volt meter to the battery terminals to keep tabs on the voltage, after 2 or 3 days of rainy cloudy weather I popped back in to the garage, unfortunately the volt meter drained all the juice from the capacitor pack.
The voltage regulator had it's hissy fit and refused to work, even after fully charging the capacitor pack (with a car battery).
So the old golf cart battery back on, and the charger still didn't want to know, I had to threaten it with a screwdriver before it sprang in to life.

Anyhow, the answer to my question is, yes capacitor packs are good if you have enough of them. A 350f pack (120) is nowhere, a 3500f (1000+) would behave more like my 20ah golf cart battery (5 from a car boot sale).


Oh, while I'm here. Have you seen people on youtube claiming this little supper capacitor pack can start their cars and trucks?
Well the pack that I bought which was exactly the same, started my 1.2 Renault Clio only once, badly, then died.