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Green Building and Design => Green Construction/DIY => Topic started by: eabadger on October 05, 2017, 05:33:37 PM



Title: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: eabadger on October 05, 2017, 05:33:37 PM
not sure if anyone wants to see, but after killing a wasp nest in our stone wall we then started getting a really bad smell inside! seems this happens.
so to stop problem happening again and to improve heat retention we have started point the last part of the south facing wall, we have learnt the local method whilst here, which is roughly render the stones after raking out old stuff then pressure washing, push the render as deep as you can get, leave the render covering the stones until it drys to the point of a thumb wont mark it but a finger nail will, then use a brass brush to brush the render off the stones to your desired end product, first picture below was raking out yesterday, just finished the whole wall and washed off but raining now so no pictures till the morning.
we bought secondhand roller shutters for all the windows, we would prefer traditional wood shutters but the rollers are so much more energy efficient or so i believe, the new price for the window shown is 300 plus motor drive 270! we got 5 with remote motors and bigger than we need so can be cut down for a total of 350, so result in my mind.

steve


Title: Re: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: eabadger on October 06, 2017, 08:36:08 AM
guess what hit the dusty window last night?
kids are convinced it is a sign.


Title: Re: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: linesrg on October 06, 2017, 10:58:14 AM
Steve,

I thought the bat's radar systems would preclude this happening????????

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: Nickel2 on October 06, 2017, 11:24:07 AM
eabatman, tell the kids not let anyone else know about this, in case they blow your cover.  ;D


Title: Re: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: TheFairway on October 06, 2017, 11:44:07 AM
Brilliant


Title: Re: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: todthedog on October 06, 2017, 03:28:41 PM
Blige Steve a labour of love. It brings back memories including my Barmy neighbour telling me cement is much better than lime :hysteria.
Two questions do you have a secret car, and any tendancies to wear your pants outside your trousers!

Looks a great job.  Terrific deal on the blinds. :crossed


Title: Re: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: biff on October 06, 2017, 06:39:32 PM
Robin,,                   Oh Batman,,pleath tell us another exciting story,
Batman,,                Well Ok but i have to think a bit.
Robin,,                    Have you got any stories about Wonderwoman,,
Batman,,                Well Yeahhh, there is that one about Wonderwoman and the invisible man,,,
Robin,,                   Oh goodie and starts jumping up and down,
Barman,,                Errr , wait,, this is a family show ya know.
                                                      Biff


Title: Re: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: offthegridandy on October 06, 2017, 08:17:28 PM
So does Batwoman wear her panties outside, or not at all.   Plez do tell


Title: Re: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: eabadger on October 07, 2017, 09:05:06 AM
i thought it had spotted her broomstick!
having googled bats windows, they seem to have a software glitch when it comes to glass, come on version 2.010??

the weather window we were promised now shows rain from 22:00 and all day tomorrow, so will be rain stops play, with it not being too warm the drying before brushing is stable, i put last of mix on about 19:00 and brushed back ok at 9 this morning, if you let it go off to far it needs doing again, which is a pain, the render over the stones also cleans them off which is a plus if you like the look.
having examined the old render the atmosphere appears to have taken it toll on it, but add to water and can be reused!
also the brush back can be thrown back in to the mixer, i mixed up a load last night, turned it over a few mins this morning and if anything better than a fresh mix.

back to it before that rain comes.


Title: Re: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: eabadger on October 07, 2017, 09:57:39 AM
TD, yes get lots of comments about no cement, "what not even a little bit?" is a common question, brits here appear to love the thought of lime and sand but then get a builder in who sucks air through his teeth and persuades them otherwise, when you compare the two methods side by side the one with a "touch" of cement looks so grey and dull, ours changes colour with the weather, mid summer house is pale, winter a more sandy colour.
no sign of cracking and some i have done is 6 years old, first attempt i added cement, but only once.

the shutters are energy rated and i hope keep the heat in, windows here open inwards (no window cleaners) so difficult with curtains.
the ones we have are somfy driven, neat motor gearbox with radio receiver built in.

steve


Title: Re: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: linesrg on October 07, 2017, 11:54:43 AM
Steve,

I use [url]https://www.lime-mortars.co.uk/lime-mortar/non-hydraulic/coarse-stuff/25kg/url] for all repairs up here in Aberdeenshire. The plan is to continue using it for all repairs and, in due course, remove some of the cement based repairs done previously.

It doesn't cost much more than sand/ cement and looks 'right' on buildings originally built using it.

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: eabadger on October 07, 2017, 12:10:42 PM
not only does it look right, it works best, no foundation structures will always move about, i have seen loads of 70's renovated places here which were done with cement, now cracking and in some places falling down due to water ingress and frost damage.

we use this, like lots of things here more expensive than uk at abour 20 a sac if i recall.
https://www.lafarge.fr/nathural


Title: Re: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: todthedog on October 07, 2017, 12:39:31 PM
Not only looks right it just works.
When we left still looked good after 15 years.
Up the road cement mix was falling out after 5.
Our ancestors were not idiots. ;D


Title: Re: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: biff on October 07, 2017, 12:49:45 PM
I am not going to say a single word, freeeze
                                  Not a single word, apart from how the Romans perfected some constructions that lasted over 2,000 years... linux: tomato:
                                            Biff


Title: Re: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: eabadger on October 07, 2017, 03:16:42 PM
how come sacs here are 35kg or even 40kg!!
all my internal solid walls also lime and sand, then lime wash, which is just the sac dregs with water added.
apparently romans round here added linseed oil to external mix, have not tried that yet.

almost finished 1st pass on top part, but not drying to well today, so have to keep an eye on it, dont want it to go off overnight.

steve


Title: Re: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: eabadger on October 08, 2017, 07:58:30 AM
biff  freeeze does that mean you think it is cold? our house far from it, big thick walls have worked really well, never cold no jumpers on inside, all visitors comment how warm it is.

anyway rained overnight but set dry rest of day so crack on.


Title: Re: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: biff on October 08, 2017, 08:24:15 PM
No Not at all Steve,
                         It is just that I like a bit of cement in the mix, surrender:
                                                  Biff


Title: Re: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: todthedog on October 09, 2017, 06:38:01 AM
 :hysteria :hysteria :hysteria


Title: Re: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: eabadger on October 09, 2017, 08:41:53 AM
a retired builder out here came for sunday lunch about 4 years ago, he sucked through his teeth and said he preferred a bit of cement in the mix, but he admitted ours looked nicer.
roll on a year we popped round and he was standing back admiring his newly self built garden wall, big old thing looked lovely, no cement in site, he was well chuffed so much so never gone back to the grey stuff.

everyone to there own, am interested biff why you think the lime needs the touch? have you tried NHL? nothing like lime putty, it goes off overnight and fully hardens soon after.
no mess no waste all can go back in the next days mix, mix left overnight is in fact a better mix.

steve


Title: Re: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: todthedog on October 09, 2017, 03:01:20 PM
Do you ever add plasticiser Steve?




Title: Re: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: eabadger on October 09, 2017, 03:42:28 PM
never used it, lafarge actually say their lime can be used as a plastisier, i find a long mix followed by a long rest is all that is needed, overnight best, but a few hours suffices.

as i said all a personal opinion, but i personally like the sand colour without grey, i did try white cement but in the end opted for natural!


Title: Re: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: biff on October 09, 2017, 03:48:17 PM
Hi Steve,
     I would probably be like that retired builder friend of yours, but I am not sure. I built a lot of brickwork/blockwork where lime was not allowed and a plasterciser was measured in a little plastic cup.
 Builders like to err on what we think is the safe side. ;D
                                                            Biff


Title: Re: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: todthedog on October 09, 2017, 04:33:20 PM
I found pure lime plus a little plasticiser made it stick better about a teaspoon per load. No cement.
Each to his own, not a job I much enjoyed :genuflect


Title: Re: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: eabadger on October 09, 2017, 05:03:01 PM
biff exactly what freddie said, he then tested without letting on!
the daub on and brush off is so simple for the enthusiastic diyyer.

td i am knackered every night, but the finished look makes me keen for next day, sort of.
i found damping down wall first makes it stick fine, point first allow to dry a bit then render over all.

shutters going in tomorrow weather permitting, due to being secondhand the top box is bigger than i would like but i plan to cover with a oak plank removed from the soon to be removed barn at the side, which will allow me to get rid of the galv piece and attaching bars, how i get the massive a frames down is a task, any ideas?


Title: Re: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: biff on October 09, 2017, 06:20:25 PM
A handy forklift,
                 Spread the tines and wrap old sacking around them,tie them well, I think the tines go wide to 4ft, so you have quite an overlap on both sides. If you can get the frame to rest on the tines, you can then tie them firmly. It is a good idea to plank underneath the forklift for the first few feet to clear the wall and lower the frame. Forklift can be gentle. I know you have a digger but the controls on those small diggers are rather jerky, especially on the extended jib. You were probably thinking of a forklift anyhow.
                                                                           Biff


Title: Re: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: eabadger on October 10, 2017, 11:27:39 AM
hello Biff,
thanks for that, i was thinking about a manitou type thing, tellihandler? these things are massive i will get some picture later, i was hoping you would have some way using rope and pulleys as loaning/renting things here massively expensive.
as for digger i think these will be past its usability.
unbelievably we are having planning issues, we have pp for a single storey flat roof extension but now decided to rebuild barn with block built walls clad in original oak planks and new slate roof, but new rules mean total sqm over 150m needs an architect at 4000!! just for a drawing of what we already have.

steve


Title: Re: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: biff on October 10, 2017, 12:22:30 PM
Hi Steve,
           You could put up a scaffold along side frame and support the underside of the frame on wooden 2" x 2" x 2ft long. The important thing is to prise the frame away from the stonework/brickwork so that it rests on the 2" x2"s  level so that it can clear the bolts and not drop on one end, kicking the stone work out into the street.  Without having a clear pic of the said frame, i am only guessing but I know that it needs to be fully supported on the level to clear the bolts. It it is going to be used again then you will have to lower it gently, If it is going to be scrap and you could get your digger to one end of it and lift it clear of the scaffold with a short rope,, then remove that scaffold section and lower that end to the ground. It is the kind of job that you need to keep other people well clear off. You need to remember to tie the Frame to the inside of the scaffold crosspiece to create a hinge as you lower it. This will prevent the lot skidding away and wrecking the scaffold before you can get around to take the weight of the other side and remove that box.
  This is all very clear to me facepalm but I have been known to indulge in seemingly mumbo jumbo.
I do know that a simple job such as lower a heavy frame like that can turn out not to be so simple after all and take a good half day.
 I was thinking that maybe this frame is also a structural support.! with a big steel girder bolted on to the back of it, You really don,t know what you will find with these old building until you get up close and personal with it.
 Sorry to hear about your additional bill..That is a rather sore nip,,surely they have made a mistake of sorts.
                                                                               Biff
       


Title: Re: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: eabadger on October 10, 2017, 12:49:41 PM
in for a cuppa, will digest later.
but three of these one up against gable end, ridge beam is lodged in the gable end arrow slot so keen to get that out and some glass in! currently covered up insulated and plastered over in my bedroom.
all oak and chestnut from the forest 2m behind that rear wall.

wife going to planing department in morning to argue the eco case, they like that, our solar shed and pv arrays were nodded through, the barn replacement will have the CHP unit and big wood and oil combined boiler in it, with rain water harvesting etc.
plus a garage and workshop for me!!


Title: Re: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: eabadger on April 15, 2018, 01:08:13 PM
winter has stopped the shutters and lime project, but an incident that occurred last week reminded me about the bat window picture in this thread, cute little things!
look what we found when we were about to go to see friends...


Title: Re: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: eabadger on August 03, 2018, 04:45:38 PM
bit of an update, winter stopped play with the lime and shutters which was a shame for winter.
now back on it and have progressed but the hot weather is slowing me down.
large shutter on dining room in and automated (central app control for them and some lights)
i hate look of the shutters when not in use, so have hidden them, looks good in the flesh, takes longer but looks less industrial, though no one here seems to bother with the box.


Title: Re: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: eabadger on August 03, 2018, 04:47:29 PM
close up of the "hidden" box pre pointing.


Title: Re: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: eabadger on September 24, 2018, 09:18:24 AM
finally finished the back of house! been hardwork in the heat of this summer, weather took a turn end of last week and the shutters proved worthwhile,  keeps the noise of storms out and make the rooms much warmer,  not sure what heat loss on dg windows is but these seem to make a significant difference
now starting the front of house, got to be quick as cant do if chance of frost, so maybe 4 weeks?

steve


Title: Re: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: offthegridandy on September 24, 2018, 09:28:41 AM
Nice work, keep it up Steve.

Andy


Title: Re: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: eabadger on September 24, 2018, 10:53:24 AM
thanks andy, the front looks daunting now, do think i have a chance of doing before first frosts due, but will do what i can, the cavities and be big, where i cant do properly but can see a big gap i use expanding foam, then finish with lime/sand and a rock pushed in if i can.
i think the shutters are a good idea, can understand they are not norm in uk but maybe should be on new builds.
they are really cheap!
fitted mine with motors and remote receiver that links to a hub that can control all via phone app.

steve


Title: Re: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: kristen on September 24, 2018, 06:43:24 PM
i think the shutters are a good idea, can understand they are not norm in uk but maybe should be on new builds.

triple glazed (I think same/not much more than double glazed these days?) means I can't hear storms and, in my case, inside surface not more than 4C colder than room, so no thermal convection and no draughts.

But if roof-overhangs not enough to keep Summer Sun out or, in any event, for East and West windows in Summer (when sun lower, but still generating heat), shutters would keep the heat out. But in Winter I want the sun's heat on all my windows - even if it is blowing a gale :)


Title: Re: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: eabadger on September 25, 2018, 07:46:17 AM
not convinced glass no matter how many layers is as good as insulated shutters, again i know not the uk norm but maybe should be.
we paid about 120 per 1.1x1.4 double glazed hardwood windows.
shutter 69 motor 59 remote control slave unit 17 all aprox.

never seen tripple glazed over here, but shutters in mainland europe are pretty common, like you say keep us cool in summer warm in winter, when the winter sun shines we have open, we close like curtains at night or in stormy weather.
on that point our windows all open inwards, so external shutters can be reached to close and to be able to clean both sides of the glass, no window cleaners here.

will check actual heatloss this winter, which i suspect maybe a baddy

steve


Title: Re: lime pointing and shutters
Post by: eabadger on October 29, 2018, 04:58:51 PM
that wall is/was going well until weather just took a turn for worse...
but two original shutters failed this week, we put them in 8 years ago in the dog kennel windows in the roof, both made horrible noises and then stopped working, thinking the worst i today took the one to pieces in our bedroom double height area, which involved removing plaster and board, didn't think that out 8 years ago banghead:
the issue? about a million ladybirds!! totally filled the tubular motor and all the runners, no idea how to stop it happening again.
now i guess the same issue in daughters bedroom....

steve