Navitron Renewable Energy and Sustainability Forum

Green Building and Design => Energy Efficiency & Insulation => Topic started by: TheFairway on October 12, 2017, 11:50:51 AM



Title: Stamp duty may change to encourage people to make homes more energy efficient
Post by: TheFairway on October 12, 2017, 11:50:51 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41592635

All a bit vague but a step in the right direction.

Personally I'm not a fan of sticks, we already live in a world where there are too many. Better imho to educate people in the pro's of improving things rather than tell off those that don't.


Title: Re: Stamp duty may change to encourage people to make homes more energy efficient
Post by: pdf27 on October 12, 2017, 02:14:17 PM
So run it as a carrot - stamp duty paid by the buyer remains the same, but any house with an A rating has 50% of or whatever paid to the seller at the end of the process. That way at least the person doing the work gets the benefit - at the moment you know you'll get virtually nothing for it when you sell up and move on, so why bother?


Title: Re: Stamp duty may change to encourage people to make homes more energy efficient
Post by: Quakered on October 12, 2017, 02:26:43 PM
Not sure incentivising people to insulate their house could be described as a “stick”. I am sure it is a good idea but also not sure it will work until buyers attach some importance to the running costs of the houses they want to buy. Also if the plan to reduce reduce Stamp Duty to well insulated houses then the benefit will be to the purchaser and the cost to the seller. Why would the seller bother?

Our road is providing lots of employment for our east European friends with extensions going on all the time. If someone is seeking plannnig consent for a large extension and therefore plannnig a spend circa £50k then surely a condition of the approval should be the house is also properly insulated as part of the extension.


Title: Re: Stamp duty may change to encourage people to make homes more energy efficient
Post by: M on October 12, 2017, 02:34:24 PM
Also if the plan to reduce reduce Stamp Duty to well insulated houses then the benefit will be to the purchaser and the cost to the seller. Why would the seller bother?

I'm only theorizing here, but if the improvements brought down the cost to the buyer, then that would help with selling the property, also the seller could charge more for the house (than neighbouring properties) but with the stamp duty difference, it may still be a cheaper property for the buyer.


Title: Re: Stamp duty may change to encourage people to make homes more energy efficient
Post by: RIT on October 12, 2017, 03:26:55 PM
To be honest, I can't see any party giving up a major slice of the stamp duty revenue to make such a schema worthwhile, worse case is that they end up increasing the stamp duty on those homes that are less energy efficient.


Title: Re: Stamp duty may change to encourage people to make homes more energy efficient
Post by: linesrg on October 12, 2017, 03:55:44 PM
Good Afternoon All,

Reducing VAT from 20 to 5% on such home improvements would be a start............ and not forcing you to get 'approved' contractors in to do the work would be another!!!

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Stamp duty may change to encourage people to make homes more energy efficient
Post by: djh on October 12, 2017, 05:39:26 PM
I'm confused. I just downloaded the Clean Growth Plan (see https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-reaffirms-commitment-to-lead-the-world-in-cost-effective-clean-growth ) and it doesn't mention stamp duty at all. The word 'duty' only appears once, and 'stamp' not at all. So what has the BBC been smoking?

See also the other thread at https://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,28912.0

As regards any plans to vary stamp duty depending on energy efficiency, how would they propose to measure the energy efficiency? SAP and EPC are flawed nonsense, so totally unsuitable. What else could they use?

The VAT rate is an EU imposition, so hopefully will reduce in the future.


Title: Re: Stamp duty may change to encourage people to make homes more energy efficient
Post by: brackwell on October 13, 2017, 08:05:19 AM
Easy- " Houses cannot be sold unless they are EPC "C" rated or higher."    This would require places to be DG, loft and cavity insulated, and gas or HP.  People should be doing this in any case.


Title: Re: Stamp duty may change to encourage people to make homes more energy efficient
Post by: skyewright on October 13, 2017, 09:41:49 AM
Not sure incentivising people to insulate their house could be described as a “stick”.
What puzzles me is why people miss the obvious 'carrot' of insulating their house right now, especially if they hope to live there for quite a while. The money we've spent on draught proofing, insulation & other energy related improvements has reduced our energy bills substantially, and as time passes & energy prices increase the 'saving' increases. 'No brainer', surely?


Title: Re: Stamp duty may change to encourage people to make homes more energy efficient
Post by: TheFairway on October 13, 2017, 09:43:27 AM
Easy- " Houses cannot be sold unless they are EPC "C" rated or higher."    This would require places to be DG, loft and cavity insulated, and gas or HP.  People should be doing this in any case.

That does not guarantee EPC C. And many houses don't have cavity, not can have EWI and IWI is not practical.

An impractical stick even before you moveing into the "how do you ban people from selling property" scenario.

But pointing out the carrots and making them financially affordable without undue red-tape, then absolutely.

How much has DIY loft insulation increased in recent years now that is is no longer subsidised as it once was?


Title: Re: Stamp duty may change to encourage people to make homes more energy efficient
Post by: skyewright on October 13, 2017, 09:50:26 AM
Reducing VAT from 20 to 5% on such home improvements would be a start............ and not forcing you to get 'approved' contractors in to do the work would be another!!!
+1 to that.
A conscientious & careful DIYer, willing to take time, study the skills needed & do it properly may well end up with a higher standard finish!

The hard bit for allowing DIY for any scheme that involves government funding, subsidy or relief would be proving the quality (or even existence?!) of the work (not that using an 'approved' contractor is a guarantee of quality in some cases...). Any 'approved' inspection scheme would be bound to add costs, maybe even enough to outweigh any benefit?

While awaiting the ideal, I'll probably just get on with our rolling programme of improvements and & when funds & time allows...


Title: Re: Stamp duty may change to encourage people to make homes more energy efficient
Post by: pdf27 on October 13, 2017, 11:14:05 AM
I'm confused. I just downloaded the Clean Growth Plan (see https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-reaffirms-commitment-to-lead-the-world-in-cost-effective-clean-growth ) and it doesn't mention stamp duty at all. The word 'duty' only appears once, and 'stamp' not at all. So what has the BBC been smoking?
Checked the report, they asked the minister about stamp duty in an interview and she described it as something she was "very interested" in - so they're speculating based on an interview rather than a policy announcement. I suspect it's something that particular minister wants to do but the Treasury are trying to prevent...


Title: Re: Stamp duty may change to encourage people to make homes more energy efficient
Post by: RIT on October 13, 2017, 12:42:07 PM
Good Afternoon All,

Reducing VAT from 20 to 5% on such home improvements would be a start............ and not forcing you to get 'approved' contractors in to do the work would be another!!!

Regards

Richard

The problem with uncontrolled discounts is that the discounted items end up being used in ways that are not part of the 'plan'. The last good example was the low-cost loft insulation, while it was great for DIY installers it was also a great way to get low cost rockwool for things like sound proofing and Hydroponics.

Also such a major reduction in VAT would just mean fleets of trucks turning up from the rest of the EU as the resulting price difference for consumers would be so high.


Title: Re: Stamp duty may change to encourage people to make homes more energy efficient
Post by: todthedog on October 13, 2017, 01:24:33 PM
Richard +2

When living in France all my PV and solar came from UK and Germany.
French subsidies and insistence on the work being carried out by an artisan meant that prices in France were 30% higher than anywhere else in Europe.
The artisan aware of the subsidies added 30% to the quote.
Ditto the supplier.
Price for a 3kW install 13,000 euro.
Cost of diy install with UK kit and the hassle of form filling under 4000 euro.

When the UK leaves the EU  it will doubtless slash VAT as this was an EU replacement of purchase tax.

Under EU law, the standard rate of VAT in any EU state cannot be lower than 15%.[5][6] Each state may have up to two reduced rates of at least 5% for a restricted list of goods and services.[6] The European Council must approve any temporary reduction of VAT in the public interest. Obviously no longer applicable
 fpig: fpig:  fpig:


Title: Re: Stamp duty may change to encourage people to make homes more energy efficient
Post by: dimengineer on October 13, 2017, 01:40:55 PM
Easy- " Houses cannot be sold unless they are EPC "C" rated or higher."    This would require places to be DG, loft and cavity insulated, and gas or HP.  People should be doing this in any case.

How would that work? In paractice?
Suppose you have a house - old, listed, that can't be brought up to C or better. What happens then? Or you just don't have the money to do the work - which is why you are selling?
They don't even do it for cars (emmissions-wise), which are much cheaper, so to propose it for houses defies belief. 


Title: Re: Stamp duty may change to encourage people to make homes more energy efficient
Post by: sam_cat on October 13, 2017, 04:15:27 PM
Easy- " Houses cannot be sold unless they are EPC "C" rated or higher."    This would require places to be DG, loft and cavity insulated, and gas or HP.  People should be doing this in any case.

How would that work? In paractice?
Suppose you have a house - old, listed, that can't be brought up to C or better. What happens then? Or you just don't have the money to do the work - which is why you are selling?
They don't even do it for cars (emmissions-wise), which are much cheaper, so to propose it for houses defies belief. 


non-listed houses that cannot be brought up to C, maybe a scrappage sceme?


Title: Re: Stamp duty may change to encourage people to make homes more energy efficient
Post by: linesrg on October 13, 2017, 04:21:57 PM
Reducing VAT from 20 to 5% on such home improvements would be a start............ and not forcing you to get 'approved' contractors in to do the work would be another!!!
+1 to that.
A conscientious & careful DIYer, willing to take time, study the skills needed & do it properly may well end up with a higher standard finish!

The hard bit for allowing DIY for any scheme that involves government funding, subsidy or relief would be proving the quality (or even existence?!) of the work (not that using an 'approved' contractor is a guarantee of quality in some cases...). Any 'approved' inspection scheme would be bound to add costs, maybe even enough to outweigh any benefit?

While awaiting the ideal, I'll probably just get on with our rolling programme of improvements and & when funds & time allows...

David,

Exactly what we're doing.........

As I commented elsewhere though the kitchen upgrade cost as much as the outright purchase price of my second house in 1982. The dining room is 'ongoing' as we still have to progress the cornicing but already it is noticeably 'warmer' than it was.

I'll try not to think about just how much has been spent on the property.........

Regards

Richard


Title: Re: Stamp duty may change to encourage people to make homes more energy efficient
Post by: Barrie on October 13, 2017, 04:27:33 PM
Could be fun applying a scrappage scheme to a terraced house....

My parents house is in a conservation area and they have been quoted £15k to replace two windows, at ninety years plus they've decided not to bother.



Title: Re: Stamp duty may change to encourage people to make homes more energy efficient
Post by: dimengineer on October 13, 2017, 06:55:21 PM
Could be fun applying a scrappage scheme to a terraced house....

My parents house is in a conservation area and they have been quoted £15k to replace two windows, at ninety years plus they've decided not to bother.



One of my friends has a similar problem. He lives in a 30s semi in a conservation area (Pinner). All the houses are reasonably original, but he is NOT allowed to put in double glazing or EWI. Single skin construciton, so CWI not possible. Well, he can do double glazing, but only council approved, shockingly expensive stuff. So he's condemned to high heating bills.