Navitron Renewable Energy and Sustainability Forum

Announcements & News => Media Watch => Topic started by: RIT on February 13, 2018, 07:35:26 PM



Title: Car tax will only be 0pa for true EVs from 1st April
Post by: RIT on February 13, 2018, 07:35:26 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/cars/article-5385287/New-car-tax-bands-bite-April-2017-vehicles.html

The government seems keen to focus on EVs and keeping the tax stream from car tax going for as long as possible.


Title: Re: Car tax will only be 0pa for true EVs from 1st April
Post by: fourfootfarm on February 13, 2018, 07:42:02 PM
Thanks for calling it vehicle tax and not road tax. Bug bear of mine!  bike:




Title: Re: Car tax will only be 0pa for true EVs from 1st April
Post by: RIT on February 13, 2018, 08:14:26 PM
Thanks for calling it vehicle tax and not road tax. Bug bear of mine!  bike:


I'm not old enough to remember it as a road fund tax :)


Title: Re: Car tax will only be 0pa for true EVs from 1st April
Post by: Tiff on February 13, 2018, 08:15:55 PM
How about Vehicle Excise Duty?


Title: Re: Car tax will only be 0pa for true EVs from 1st April
Post by: Nickel2 on February 14, 2018, 07:45:22 AM
I seem to recall 'Road fund license' at some stage of my yoof.


Title: Re: Car tax will only be 0pa for true EVs from 1st April
Post by: M on February 14, 2018, 08:18:00 AM
Thanks for calling it vehicle tax and not road tax. Bug bear of mine!  bike:


I'm not old enough to remember it as a road fund tax :)

I'm old enough to be really pee'd off about 'car tax' that 10% tax for vehicles with glass behind the drivers door - pee'd off because I loved the Toyota Hilux especially the US versions, but the UK wasn't importing extra cabs, and double cabs, because they attracted car tax, whereas the standard short cab didn't.

PS, when did car tax end, it must be several decades now?


Title: Re: Car tax will only be 0pa for true EVs from 1st April
Post by: camillitech on February 14, 2018, 08:51:56 AM
Thanks for calling it vehicle tax and not road tax. Bug bear of mine!  bike:


I'm not old enough to remember it as a road fund tax :)

I'm old enough to be really pee'd off about 'car tax' that 10% tax for vehicles with glass behind the drivers door - pee'd off because I loved the Toyota Hilux especially the US versions, but the UK wasn't importing extra cabs, and double cabs, because they attracted car tax, whereas the standard short cab didn't.

PS, when did car tax end, it must be several decades now?

Was that not just the VAT? it is levied on all vehicles but only reclaimable on vans and pick ups, though now it is reclaimable on new hire cars too. Must have been abolished on 'crew cabs' in the early 90's as many of the local fishermen here used to import them, claim the VAT back and then get in trouble. Eventually it went to court and the customs and excise saw sense. A friend of mine argued, "show me another 'car' that you can put a ton of bait in the back of".

Cheers, Paul


Title: Re: Car tax will only be 0pa for true EVs from 1st April
Post by: Tigger on February 14, 2018, 09:59:14 AM
>>Car tax will only be 0pa for true EVs from 1st April

But even a true EV like a Tesla S registered 1st April onward will pay VED because they are over the 40k threshold......


Title: Re: Car tax will only be 0pa for true EVs from 1st April
Post by: M on February 14, 2018, 11:09:27 AM

I'm old enough to be really pee'd off about 'car tax' that 10% tax for vehicles with glass behind the drivers door - pee'd off because I loved the Toyota Hilux especially the US versions, but the UK wasn't importing extra cabs, and double cabs, because they attracted car tax, whereas the standard short cab didn't.

PS, when did car tax end, it must be several decades now?

Was that not just the VAT? it is levied on all vehicles but only reclaimable on vans and pick ups, though now it is reclaimable on new hire cars too. Must have been abolished on 'crew cabs' in the early 90's as many of the local fishermen here used to import them, claim the VAT back and then get in trouble. Eventually it went to court and the customs and excise saw sense. A friend of mine argued, "show me another 'car' that you can put a ton of bait in the back of".

Cheers, Paul

Hiya, I don't think so, unless I'm going crazy. I've tried googling 10% purchase tax on cars, but I don't think the internet is old enough.  ;D  All it gives me is current VED stuff.

My recollection is that cars (all vehicles with side glass behind the drivers window) had a 10% tax when you bought them, a true 'car tax', and different to the road fund licence / vehicle excise duty. Back then I think general VAT was 7.5%, but memory is failing me.

The Hilux extracab had a slightly shorter bed, and a 6inch by 18inch (guessing here) portrait window to make the cab bigger. The dual cab had back doors and windows. With a longer cab and short bed, they looked like Tonka toys, and I really wanted one, but they were too rare, grey imports and expensive, then I changed my mind slightly and bought a Firebird instead.  wackoold

PS - The giant 'Screaming Chicken' from the hood is hanging on the wall in front of me now, though the car moved on in 1992.


Title: Re: Car tax will only be 0pa for true EVs from 1st April
Post by: camillitech on February 14, 2018, 04:03:34 PM
Methinks you will find that the 10% 'car tax' or 'purchase tax' was in fact VAT. The name changed in when we joined the EEC as it was then. Like the  'road tax' and 'vehicle excise duty' people just kept using the same name. And yes, the tax did change to 8% for a while before going up to 17.5% or was it 12.5%. I have a 'memory like a hen'. It was however always VAT despite the name.

Cheers P


Title: Re: Car tax will only be 0pa for true EVs from 1st April
Post by: M on February 14, 2018, 05:05:34 PM
Methinks you will find that the 10% 'car tax' or 'purchase tax' was in fact VAT. The name changed in when we joined the EEC as it was then. Like the  'road tax' and 'vehicle excise duty' people just kept using the same name. And yes, the tax did change to 8% for a while before going up to 17.5% or was it 12.5%. I have a 'memory like a hen'. It was however always VAT despite the name.

Cheers P

Hiya, sorry but still not convinced, I recall VAT going from 7.5% (I think) to 15% to 17.5% to 20%, but I'm specifically recalling a 10% tax you paid when you bought a new car. I think it ended in the late 80's, possibly when VAT went to 15%, but I'm sure it was a 'car tax'. Google is determined to tell me all there is to know about VED!


Title: Re: Car tax will only be 0pa for true EVs from 1st April
Post by: fourfootfarm on February 14, 2018, 05:41:54 PM
Its been car (or vehicle) tax since 1937 apparently.

Hopefully the pound won't be getting so catastrophic that I have a 40,000 push bike. Though I bet Dan B would tempted if the right Lotus came up!


Title: Re: Car tax will only be 0pa for true EVs from 1st April
Post by: RIT on February 14, 2018, 06:01:19 PM
Its been car (or vehicle) tax since 1937 apparently.

Hopefully the pound won't be getting so catastrophic that I have a 40,000 push bike. Though I bet Dan B would tempted if the right Lotus came up!

From Wikipedia
Quote
The Road Fund was a British Government fund designated to pay for the building and maintenance of the United Kingdom road network. Its income came originally from vehicle excise duty, until that ceased to be hypothecated for roads use in 1936, and then from government grants. It was created by the Roads Act 1920 and Finance Act 1920, and was wound up in the Miscellaneous Financial Provisions Act 1955.

The Road Fund is notable as one of the few beneficiaries of hypothecated taxation in British history, and is the root of a popular misconception that vehicle excise duty (especially when referred to as road tax) is still hypothecated. Between 1920 and 1936 the vehicle licence (tax disc) was officially known as the "Road Fund Licence", a term which is still in colloquial use today.


Title: Re: Car tax will only be 0pa for true EVs from 1st April
Post by: phoooby on February 15, 2018, 02:26:02 AM
Whatever the tax is called, we know it is not all spend on roads like it should be. I am glad they have ended 0 for PHEV's as they need to encourage BEV. PHEV may have potential for zero emissions in town but there is not the tech in place to police so nothing to stop running the ICE in an urban area. I think air quality is overtaking climate change as a reason for the move to EV. Personally, I am not bothered what the reason, CC, air quality, balance of payment, noise; for urban areas it is difficult to argue against an EV and there is no current plausible means of ensuring a PHEV or other hybrid is not burning FF. The extra "luxury car tax" of 320 pa which applies to Tesla, I am less supportive of. I think this should be applied to 40k+ cars but not EV's (a speced i3 would also have this tax). I bought my car purchase forward to avoid this tax so shot me down if you want. It seems to me to be at odds as we all know EV's are more expensive due to batteries so to tax on price despite low emissions and particulates seems to be a tax on people trying to do the right thing.


Title: Re: Car tax will only be 0pa for true EVs from 1st April
Post by: camillitech on February 15, 2018, 08:01:40 AM
Thanks for calling it vehicle tax and not road tax. Bug bear of mine!  bike:


I'm not old enough to remember it as a road fund tax :)

I'm old enough to be really pee'd off about 'car tax' that 10% tax for vehicles with glass behind the drivers door - pee'd off because I loved the Toyota Hilux especially the US versions, but the UK wasn't importing extra cabs, and double cabs, because they attracted car tax, whereas the standard short cab didn't.

PS, when did car tax end, it must be several decades now?

Car tax ended when Britain joined the EU and they changed the name to VAT 'car tax' has never been levied on pickups with rear windows be they fixed or in doors. Even in the US market 'extracabs' and four door pickups did not appear until 1978 (long after 'car tax' disappeared). I worked for Toyota from August 1972 until Elvis died and never saw a HiLux (or any other pickup) with rear doors until long after that. So yes you are perfectly correct, their was a dedicated 'car tax' back in the day but it was never levied on crew cabs, that was VAT. This I know for a fact cos many of my mates got hammered by the VAT man after purchasing them though some did argue their case and won.


Title: Re: Car tax will only be 0pa for true EVs from 1st April
Post by: TheFairway on February 15, 2018, 08:04:06 AM
I agree about the 'luxury' car tax. At present, BEV is more expensive so at very least, the 40k limit should be on the actual sale price, including any discount/grants but iirc its on the 'windscreen' price which wont include the 5k (or whatever it is now) bev grant.

A Tesla Model 3 will very likely come in >40k by the time you put the (currently mandatory) extended battery and upgrade pack on it. Its cars like Model 3 that is going to start opening up bev to the masses as it is at the leading edge of an 'affordable' bev that will give the range that majority of people will view as far enough in all weather conditions for them to seriously consider for their main vehicle.


Title: Re: Car tax will only be 0pa for true EVs from 1st April
Post by: brackwell on February 15, 2018, 08:20:54 AM
There was a period  in about mid 70s when we had purchase tax on luxury goods such as yachts,new cars and others. It crippled the boating industry. Lasted for about 1yr if  memory is correct.  But that was not the first time as i believe it was around in the 50/60s but i was only a boy.

Ken


Title: Re: Car tax will only be 0pa for true EVs from 1st April
Post by: camillitech on February 15, 2018, 08:29:23 AM
There was a period  in about mid 70s when we had purchase tax on luxury goods such as yachts,new cars and others. It crippled the boating industry. Lasted for about 1yr if  memory is correct.  But that was not the first time as i believe it was around in the 50/60s but i was only a boy.

Ken

Purchase tax was introduced during the war Ken, initially at 33% then 66% and by 1945 it rose to 100%!!!! it then went up and down with various governments before being replaced by VAT when we joined the EU.


Title: Re: Car tax will only be 0pa for true EVs from 1st April
Post by: marshman on February 15, 2018, 11:24:08 AM

I'm old enough to be really pee'd off about 'car tax' that 10% tax for vehicles with glass behind the drivers door - pee'd off because I loved the Toyota Hilux especially the US versions, but the UK wasn't importing extra cabs, and double cabs, because they attracted car tax, whereas the standard short cab didn't.

PS, when did car tax end, it must be several decades now?

Was that not just the VAT? it is levied on all vehicles but only reclaimable on vans and pick ups, though now it is reclaimable on new hire cars too. Must have been abolished on 'crew cabs' in the early 90's as many of the local fishermen here used to import them, claim the VAT back and then get in trouble. Eventually it went to court and the customs and excise saw sense. A friend of mine argued, "show me another 'car' that you can put a ton of bait in the back of".

Cheers, Paul

Hiya, I don't think so, unless I'm going crazy. I've tried googling 10% purchase tax on cars, but I don't think the internet is old enough.  ;D  All it gives me is current VED stuff.

My recollection is that cars (all vehicles with side glass behind the drivers window) had a 10% tax when you bought them, a true 'car tax', and different to the road fund licence / vehicle excise duty. Back then I think general VAT was 7.5%, but memory is failing me.


M, you are not going crazy. There was a specific car purchase tax in place from 1940 until 1973. After this it was replaced with "car tax" and "VAT". At one point it was 66.67%  !.  In the 1960's it was lower at 25 to 33.33%.  It applied only to cars, there was a lower tax for commercial vehicles. So a popular "dodge" was to buy a "car derived" van and then fit side windows and rear seats to avoid the tax.  I have a Standard Ten 6cwt van modified in this way.

This extract explains it all.  (nothing at all to do with Road Tax (Vehicle Excise Duty))

(https://s17.postimg.org/wwihcz3y3/car_purchase_tax.png) (https://postimg.org/image/wwihcz3y3/)


Roger


Title: Re: Car tax will only be 0pa for true EVs from 1st April
Post by: M on February 15, 2018, 12:12:33 PM

M, you are not going crazy. There was a specific car purchase tax in place from 1940 until 1973. After this it was replaced with "car tax" and "VAT". At one point it was 66.67%  !.  In the 1960's it was lower at 25 to 33.33%.  It applied only to cars, there was a lower tax for commercial vehicles. So a popular "dodge" was to buy a "car derived" van and then fit side windows and rear seats to avoid the tax.  I have a Standard Ten 6cwt van modified in this way.

This extract explains it all.  (nothing at all to do with Road Tax (Vehicle Excise Duty))

(https://s17.postimg.org/wwihcz3y3/car_purchase_tax.png) (https://postimg.org/image/wwihcz3y3/)


Roger

Thanks, I was close to scheduling a CAT scan.

That article says it dropped to 8% in 1974, but not when it ended. I have in my mind that it was the late 80's, but that seems unlikely now.

Perhaps I've got the date wrong as I was looking into importing a US pick up or car in the late 80's, early 90's and the varying taxes where horrific. My main bug bear was that you had to add all the shipping costs to the car purchase cost, before applying car import tax, and then VAT on top again. Tax on tax. AAAAhhhhh.


Title: Re: Car tax will only be 0pa for true EVs from 1st April
Post by: marshman on February 15, 2018, 01:21:16 PM

M, you are not going crazy. There was a specific car purchase tax in place from 1940 until 1973. After this it was replaced with "car tax" and "VAT". At one point it was 66.67%  !.  In the 1960's it was lower at 25 to 33.33%.  It applied only to cars, there was a lower tax for commercial vehicles. So a popular "dodge" was to buy a "car derived" van and then fit side windows and rear seats to avoid the tax.  I have a Standard Ten 6cwt van modified in this way.

This extract explains it all.  (nothing at all to do with Road Tax (Vehicle Excise Duty))

(https://s17.postimg.org/wwihcz3y3/car_purchase_tax.png) (https://postimg.org/image/wwihcz3y3/)


Roger

Thanks, I was close to scheduling a CAT scan.

That article says it dropped to 8% in 1974, but not when it ended. I have in my mind that it was the late 80's, but that seems unlikely now.

Perhaps I've got the date wrong as I was looking into importing a US pick up or car in the late 80's, early 90's and the varying taxes where horrific. My main bug bear was that you had to add all the shipping costs to the car purchase cost, before applying car import tax, and then VAT on top again. Tax on tax. AAAAhhhhh.

5th line down "abolished April 1973"

As I said it was replaced by "car tax" and VAT.  The "car tax" was abolished in the 1990's


The Finance Act of 1972 abolished it: starts at page 36

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1972/41/pdfs/ukpga_19720041_en.pdf



revised in Finance act 1983

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1983/53/contents

Abolished 1992

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1992/58/contents/enacted

I need to get a life !


Title: Re: Car tax will only be 0pa for true EVs from 1st April
Post by: M on February 15, 2018, 03:07:52 PM

M, you are not going crazy. There was a specific car purchase tax in place from 1940 until 1973. After this it was replaced with "car tax" and "VAT". At one point it was 66.67%  !.  In the 1960's it was lower at 25 to 33.33%.  It applied only to cars, there was a lower tax for commercial vehicles. So a popular "dodge" was to buy a "car derived" van and then fit side windows and rear seats to avoid the tax.  I have a Standard Ten 6cwt van modified in this way.

This extract explains it all.  (nothing at all to do with Road Tax (Vehicle Excise Duty))

(https://s17.postimg.org/wwihcz3y3/car_purchase_tax.png) (https://postimg.org/image/wwihcz3y3/)


Roger

Thanks, I was close to scheduling a CAT scan.

That article says it dropped to 8% in 1974, but not when it ended. I have in my mind that it was the late 80's, but that seems unlikely now.

Perhaps I've got the date wrong as I was looking into importing a US pick up or car in the late 80's, early 90's and the varying taxes where horrific. My main bug bear was that you had to add all the shipping costs to the car purchase cost, before applying car import tax, and then VAT on top again. Tax on tax. AAAAhhhhh.

5th line down "abolished April 1973"

As I said it was replaced by "car tax" and VAT.  The "car tax" was abolished in the 1990's


The Finance Act of 1972 abolished it: starts at page 36

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1972/41/pdfs/ukpga_19720041_en.pdf



revised in Finance act 1983

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1983/53/contents

Abolished 1992

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1992/58/contents/enacted

I need to get a life !

Many thanks again, the abolished 1992 fits some of my thoughts, though clearly it was not what it used to be by then. Cheers.