Navitron Renewable Energy and Sustainability Forum

General Renewable Topics => Off-Topic => Topic started by: eabadger on September 10, 2018, 08:51:29 AM

Title: tractors?
Post by: eabadger on September 10, 2018, 08:51:29 AM
anyone know about tractors?
my brilliant neighbor has broken his Iseki, which is annoying for him and us, as he does all our mowing and plowing roatavating ect.
so to pay him back and help out i offered to help, turns out he hit (bloody romans) an old wall buried deep, the rotavator moaned and now the pto doesnt turn, i thought the sacrificial piece on the external shaft would have broken, but no, he had welded that up as the pin kept snapping!!!
so axle off gearbox off and found shaft snapped, simple new shaft, no, the model was never sold in europe and iseki wont supply parts!!

so i now think i will buy him another, but the micro/mini tractors are a fortune, i noticed you can get a big one cheaper, but when i suggested this he said his roatavor would not be wide enough, kind of get it, but would it not do?
i was looking at an old massey 835, €600.

so any thoughts? or on the off chance anyone got an iseki TU tractor in bits?


Title: Re: tractors?
Post by: Tinbum on September 10, 2018, 09:09:39 AM

Old fashioned company but know what they are talking about. They are the sort of company that will refurbish their old equipment rather than buy cheaper replacement rubbish.

Speak it Mike, the Boss. He really knows what he is talking about and is extremely helpful.

They have made one off or small batches of parts for me in the past, like axle drive disengage gears for 1970's Volvo portal axles from my sketches and machined gears to take taper roller bearings instead of roller bearings.


Title: Re: tractors?
Post by: Tinbum on September 10, 2018, 09:11:19 AM
he had welded that up as the pin kept snapping!!!
Expensive bodge- They're there for a reason. wackoold

Title: Re: tractors?
Post by: Countrypaul on September 10, 2018, 09:43:46 AM
If it has snapped and you have both parts, it is possible an engeering place would be able to weld it back together and machine back to orginal finish and possibly retemper if needed.

Title: Re: tractors?
Post by: eabadger on September 10, 2018, 10:06:47 AM
thanks for responses, we do have our own fab place, when is equired they did lots of teeth sucking but said yes, about 8 hours work at £60 an hour plus £50 for material.
but the original bit snapped on the teeth, and carried on rotating, looks like iseki forgot to harden as it chewed up pretty bad leaving a gap two bits dont slot together so could be 1 maybe 2 mm out when done, big job to put back in dont want to do that and it doesnt work.
we considered slotting both bits and putting a tab in, followed by migging on the lathe, but would then need teeth re-cutting.

all in all i just thought a classic ferguson for €600 with parts as cheap and plentiful as chips, but does the width mean we need a new (2nd hand) rotavator?


Title: Re: tractors?
Post by: biff on September 10, 2018, 10:21:38 AM
Yo Steve,
         I would give the older Masseys a miss, especially the 4 cylinder which is impossible to start. The 3 cylinder 35s are little pets for older farmers, Great for bouncing along the road with a link box full of shopping but not for serious work. There is a breed called Universal that have been around in Ireland prior to 1980. They punch way way above their weight in the pulling stakes and are very good on diesel.
They are made in Romania (Originally Belarus, I think) to a Fiat design. They are sold with red paintwork that turns a dull orange after a few years but don,t let that fool you. The mechanics are very good.
  Around this neck of the woods, they would have had one of the best names of any small tractor. They always got the heaviest and roughest of work.

Title: Re: tractors?
Post by: biff on September 10, 2018, 10:33:07 AM
Woops,, if you can get a classic T20 Fergy for £600,00
                  Grab it. they don,t come any more reliable than that But the Universal will run rings around it for speed and crossing bad ground.
    A good friend of mine had his own tractor repair garage and during the winter nights, i used to help him strip them down and rebuild them.
I remember him opening the parts box and taking out the first of the new Massey 35 chrome unbrushed liners..
  Ah Feck it" he was muttering,, He was very good living and never cursed ,He knew immediately that those replacement chrome liner would be a disaster and they were.
  I used to disappear out of his garage when he tested injectors, he died of throat/lung cancer.

Title: Re: tractors?
Post by: JohnS on September 10, 2018, 10:39:15 AM
A quick google search brings up


might give you something to follow up.  Is there a Japanese dealer you could go through instead of direct to Iseki.  Google translate works wonders.

Title: Re: tractors?
Post by: eabadger on September 10, 2018, 10:45:58 AM
i have tried iseki france and uk, both said no, they promised to put in touch with japan but so far.....

ferguson built here in france, the petit gris, yes we can get them cheap enough, i was looking at the ff30 same as a tea20 but french hotchkiss diesel engine and 30hp.
i was also looking at massey harris pony 820d, cute thing but odd german 2 stroke diesel engine, but only €1000 restored and road registered.

any thoughts on rotavator size?


Title: Re: tractors?
Post by: renewablejohn on September 10, 2018, 08:00:08 PM
I have Holder tractors similar to Iseki but 4WD and well made being German. Best thing all parts are ex stock direct from the factory in Germany just quote the the parts manual reference number. As for the Iseki if you can get a blue print of the part then I know a gearbox manufacturer in Bolton who I have used in the past can get it manufactured and hardened. Would keep well clear of big ag tractors as to clumsy for what you require.

Title: Re: tractors?
Post by: eabadger on September 11, 2018, 07:56:08 AM
pic attached shaft broken just on gear mesh, the mess where it span may be plus of minus 2mm so vary, may know the gear place you are talking about as work is only in rugley.
we have loads of land and veg space was kindof limited to size of tractor, we may do more with a big one.
but i can afford to chip in a grand not 5 or 6.
we need to ruff cut the medows and scrub out brambles every year, plow rotavate and tow a tipping trailer, maybe the dangerous looking hedge cutters as well.

old neighbor is saying no tractor he is going to jack it in and retire, if we could afford his place would be good, but we cant see new neighbors being so tolerant.
his place should be cheap but he has seen prices that brits used to pay


Title: Re: tractors?
Post by: eabadger on September 11, 2018, 08:01:16 AM
massey harris pony diesel, small and cute and not expensive here, but still wider than iseki so will rotavator work?

Title: Re: tractors?
Post by: oliver90owner on September 11, 2018, 11:11:16 AM
Yes, the width does matter.  A simple fact that the machine should be as wide (or wider) than the tractor to avoid running on the previous cultivated strip.  Rotovators have a central drive shaft as an off-set one would produce other unwanted forces.

Same for a front end loader - the bucket needs to be wide enough to clear the track of the front wheels or the bucket would rise as the wheels run up the heap.  

Same as why, when ploughing, the ‘furrow wheel runs in the furrow and not on the previous ploughed furrow - in these cases the plough would be offset on the drawbar or tractor linkage, such that the first furrow was properly lined up.  Crawler ploughs allowed the crawler to sit in the unploughed land.  

Hay balers either pick up the swathe fom one side or directly behind, so the tractor wheels do not run over the crop.  
Mowers are always offset, so the tractor does not flatten th grass before cutting (except for the first round, of course).  Combine harvesters are an obvious example - although there were tractor driven versions about 60 years ago which were offset.

All good sensible agricultural practices!

Edited to add that there will be garden tractor breakers who dismantle these machines and sell them as spare parts.  That shaft does not look too expensive to produce - the whole tractor only produces a few kilowatts. 

Are the shiny surfaces on that shaft for another one, or two bearings?

Title: Re: tractors?
Post by: eabadger on September 11, 2018, 12:07:56 PM
that is pretty much what neighbor said, me the disbeliever.

i have tried all the breakers i can and they all say no, must be an issue as neighbor is on 3rd one.
iseki say was not an official eu import so no parts, i suspect they must be same as one imported model but they refuse to look.
one breaker here had loads of iseki prise force shafts but all different!!

yes the shiny bit are both bearing runs, i think our fab place said about £500 to make.
i just thought the parts supply wont improve in the future so get out now.


Title: Re: tractors?
Post by: renewablejohn on September 11, 2018, 01:39:07 PM
that is pretty much what neighbor said, me the disbeliever.

i have tried all the breakers i can and they all say no, must be an issue as neighbor is on 3rd one.
iseki say was not an official eu import so no parts, i suspect they must be same as one imported model but they refuse to look.
one breaker here had loads of iseki prise force shafts but all different!!

yes the shiny bit are both bearing runs, i think our fab place said about £500 to make.
i just thought the parts supply wont improve in the future so get out now.


Looks a simple shaft to make for a gearbox manufacturer just make sure you get it properly hardened. Obviously far easier if you could get a blue print from Iseka to work from. Would also make an accurate quote easier.

Title: Re: tractors?
Post by: eabadger on September 24, 2018, 09:10:51 AM
as per suggestions visited local engineering shop, €300 15 days to sort so well happy.
but whilst waiting found a ff30ds begging for a home at €400
family love it and doesnt look out of place sizewise


Title: Re: tractors?
Post by: biff on September 24, 2018, 09:31:55 AM
Goodness me Steve,
             Well done. I had a few of those in my time. You can do a pile of work with a link box, The lift is generally very very good.
   I had a couple of TVO versions which were much lighter on the front than the T20 diesels. The TVO was much better on bad ground or taking turf out of the bog.
  NB,     I never let my kids sit on them, they were very accident prone little tractors, A good roll bar is a must, 75mm c 5mm wall tubular .They are the law here in Ireland.

Title: Re: tractors?
Post by: eabadger on September 24, 2018, 09:38:59 AM
had already decided on a rollbar, these were built after the 20's until about 60's i think, tweaked engines gave just over 30hp, still got the small pto shaft though so going to replace and fit an overrun clutch on it as last owner frightened himself to death when the inertia in the topper tried to push him down a hill.
no time to play at mo, maybe over the winter in the still drafty barn.


Title: Re: tractors?
Post by: brackwell on September 24, 2018, 09:40:16 AM
E400  What a bargain !  A good one in England could be10x

Title: Re: tractors?
Post by: eabadger on September 24, 2018, 09:55:19 AM
needs work...
but they are there or there about here for one to do up, massive amount of used farm stuff over here, reading the history of ferguson france it seems they were flooded post war to get country producing again.
local tractor graveyard has at least 5 of these in, if not more, hired the massive but excellent trailer from them, 2.6m wide on our narrow roads was an pleasant journey.
got the bug now just txted another one local.


Title: Re: tractors?
Post by: renewablejohn on September 24, 2018, 03:02:37 PM
Be very careful with kids around. A lot of the safety controls you find on modern tractors in respect of brakes, handbrakes, pto. hydraulics, do not exist on old fergies. ie everything is live.

Title: Re: tractors?
Post by: eabadger on September 24, 2018, 06:08:50 PM
thanks for concern, they dont go on it running and to be honest i have not mastered the KIGASS start system so i dont expect accidental starts, but battery disconnected also.


Title: Re: tractors?
Post by: offthegridandy on September 24, 2018, 08:13:15 PM
Er brakes? I don't think the one I used to drive had them  Must have been an early model!!

Title: Re: tractors?
Post by: eabadger on September 25, 2018, 07:10:21 AM
brakes are great, the last owner drove it non running down his steep drive to load on our tilting trailer!
have to admit i was was worried it would end up on top of car


Title: Re: tractors?
Post by: Tigger on September 25, 2018, 08:25:41 AM
Tractors and brakes, I'm sure we've all got many stories to share. 

Mine involves being stood/sat in a trailer towed by a Leyland tractor (245 I think) which unlike the other Fordson or David Brown tractors on the farm at that time had disc brakes instead of drums.  The plus point of the Leyland though was it was a bit quicker on the road, something that was exploited at every opportunity.  On this one occasion though, my cousin had the need to make use of the brakes as we were going downhill at a fair old lick and he assured me afterwards that it was only the gentlest of touches he applied to the brakes but the result was that one of the brakes grabbed hold of the disc and wasn't willing to let it go.  Meanwhile, a fair bit of smoke was pouring off the locked tyre as he fought to keep the tractor in a straight line and then for no apparent reason at all the brake released so of course being teenagers, that was immediately followed by a rush of (steady) acceleration and we were back to full speed again without a care in the world or any concern for the fact that a few tons of tractor and trailer had been out of control on a public road.

Oh to be young and carefree again  ;D

Title: Re: tractors?
Post by: biff on September 25, 2018, 11:00:51 AM
Years ago,
        There was not the same kind of attention paid to the safety aspects. When I was 14 or so, I was racing home with a load of gravel. The tractor was a major with balloon tires on the rear for the beach.
  One of the best bits of road was a new stretch about a half a mile downhill, very wide, I had approx 4 to 5 ton of gravel on the trailer and instead of slowing down, i just let the tractor speed up, like I had done on other occasions but this time for some reason, the trailer began to sway about, I tried to dab the brakes when the two came in line but that made things worse till eventually the whole team was galloping all over the road,
  There was half a turn play in the steering that was corrected by having the nearside front tire softer than the offside one, There was a swinging hitch, that could travel across a good foot either way with holes for the pin ever 2 inches, It meant that you could in certain circumstances tow a trailer of implement offset to the tractor either side. There was wicked play even with a decent tight fitting pin. I don ,t know how I managed to get to the bottom in one piece. There was no traffic, not even a bicycle nor human on the road. It was a warm summer,s evening around 6ish
  There was a big green water pump beside the road at the bottom on the flat, I coasted up to that, got off and ducked my head under the lion,s mouth, This old buck came out of the house nearby with a walking stick and a straw hat,  "Chesus sonny, yee musta be workan wild hard indeed" He had,nt a tooth in his head and was mad for gossip. I was clutching the spike on top of the pump, still shaking.
  I could hardly stand. I remember telling a friend about it weeks later and he laughed till he cried..Before i got back on the major, I noted that the walls of the balloons were black with scorching. You could smell it. I delivered the load and backed the tractor into a muddy hole for a few minutes and ambled home.
  For a long time after that, while drifting off to sleep, I would grab the bakelite covered steering wheel and hold on for dear life, pushing my feet straight out , down both side of the box to the steel plate., . There was a terrible lash and thump as the tractor and trailer  came to the apex of each big swing, getting bigger every time. threatening to throw me over the side every time. Then I would wake up.
 I was quite a careful and safety conscious little gasur after that,

Title: Re: tractors?
Post by: todthedog on September 25, 2018, 04:44:23 PM
Love it Biff, Tigger!
Ah the days when the old queen was young and we could get out of a chair without signing! wackoold

Title: Re: tractors?
Post by: oliver90owner on September 25, 2018, 08:46:19 PM
None of my ~12 tracors has a roll bar.  Half only have one brake - hand operated - and several are hand cranked, only, for starting.

Back in the early 70s, I was running a load of corn to the dryer, when on a bend at the start of a steep hill (where my brother used to knock the tractor out of gear and coast down the hill) I came accross a vehicle stopped with the driver chatting to the driver of a tractor coming up the hill.  Good job they saw me coming as I may not have been able to stop.  Hard on the brakes and dropping down the gears (I was already pretty well flat out in 10th).  I was aware that the torque plate on the select-o-speed tractors was suspect (changing down below 1500rpm, while ploughing, had already consigned two plates to the scrap heap), so that was a little worrying. 

I chewed up several yards of the road surface and part filled the tractor cab with corn, as one wheel appeared to be almost driving backwards.  I was very close to that vehicle as he accelerated away down the hill.  Likely the driver coming up the hill knew our rig, but I was past him and did not (probably could not) stop, so did not see the expression on his face!  I did wonder, afterwards, whether it was a look of terror or a huge laugh!

In 1977, a corn trailer I was towing snapped off the drawbar hook as I closed the throttle for a blind bend.  I simply throttled up and drove around the bend while the trailer went straight on and into the ditch.  They shovelled up as much corn as they could, the following morning.  Very lucky there was nobody coming in the other direction!

When using the old Major, we often climbed along the chassis rail to depress the ‘excess diesel’ button on the fuel pump to get extra power towing silage trailers up a slope flat out in 6th gear.

I also recall my brother pouring petrol into the air cleaner of a Major as a starting aid.  I always poured it in the petrol cap before adding some, but he couldn’t be bothered.  We vacated the workshop when the engine started and raced away.  How that engine did not disintegrate, still amazes me.

Just a few of the tricks we used to get up to, back 40 years or so.  There were a lot of them!

Title: Re: tractors?
Post by: eabadger on September 29, 2018, 02:14:41 PM
just got its road and injury insurance...

€55 a year exhappy:

Title: Re: tractors?
Post by: biff on September 29, 2018, 02:30:57 PM
Good Lord,
             That is a bargain, possibly because it is a classic,?

Title: Re: tractors?
Post by: Greenbeast on September 29, 2018, 03:33:20 PM
Ha ha good stories.

My old zetor is currently only equipped with a hand brake, which only operates on one wheel.
Has no lights and i've just stripped the wiring out after it almost caught fire due to a new alternator conversion on old wiring!!

Title: Re: tractors?
Post by: eabadger on September 29, 2018, 03:42:53 PM
axxa didnt say, just private owned no reward type thing, i was surprised myself.
next is to register it, we have an odd system here, it has a fiscal horsepower which has no relation to actual hp.
then each county has a charge per fiscal hp, but anything over 10 years is 1/2 price, reason people keep stuff so long here is you only pay the tax when you first buy.
no age related plates, so will have a newer plate than any of our cars!


Title: Re: tractors?
Post by: biff on September 29, 2018, 05:25:49 PM
As a Kid,
    I was always hearing stories of men being killed. I think way back then, there was this natural selection of the most savey conscious tractor men. If a man did not pay attention to his tractor and what was going on,,he paid for it by either being disabled or with his life. There was a plum of a death trap on the back of the DB Cropmaster, The PTO stuck out under the pulley,where you could not see it but where it could catch a wayward sleeve or trouser leg. the results were pretty gruesome. The belt pulley on the major was on the right hand front side but on the crop master it was on the rear between the bars above the pto. There was normally a cover on the PTO but with all the pushing and running around it was discarded. Hence our original BSM  big strong man, almost got killed this day in our rear yard ,at the old place. The PTO was engaged but even when it was not engaged, it still spun around, dragged with the oil in the diff. The pto lever was to the front of the axle on the right, approx 9" long sticking straight up, easy to reach, or so you would think, The tail of John coat got caught just as i stopped to have a look at what he was doing, I heard the ripping and then he started jumping about . It all happened so fast but I still have this clear recollection of John grabbing the rear of the two mudguards and pushing his legs back and bracing himself, Then I heard the ripping as the coat was torn from his back and he staggered away sideways, wearing just the sleeves with the coat gone in twisted ribbons. My Mother took him into the kitchen and got the vest of him, His back was a mess of blue red strips,all his muscles were pulled but he was OK other wise. He was lucky, some other tried to reach forward to push the lever off, Then they were too close to fight it when the lever refused to give because of the pull.They did not make it.
   A lot of the early majors were TVO and very easy started,,so easy that a lot of their owners never bothered putting new batteries in them because all it,s necessary 12 volt electricity could be fed from a magneto.
 Generally they were stored dry with their bonnets stuck into the dryest part of the shed, tight to a dry wall because it kept the ledckies dry,  So a neighbor rose at 7ish,,went out to start the major, with the handle while the wife made the breakfast. He would run the major on petrol for a few minutes,,sometimes 5 minutes in the frosty weather, before switching over to the TVO the breakfast was on the table and still he was outside and the tractor running,tires smoking with two hole dug, so out she went and found him pinned up against the wall by the front of the major,It started low gear and he did not get time to get clear,,.Then a good friend of my fathers worked the county with this threshing mill behind the Major, The mill was the type with the 5th wheel and the drums high above the triangular drawbar, He got into the field fine,,down from the road ,into a steep hollow and up the steep rise on the other side He thrashed the lot but returning down the hill to the road, the mill sped up and the front part crushed Dan to death on the seat of the Major.. That was very sad. One of the very best dogs we ever had was a gift from the very same man.,, I could go on and on. My old man and I had plenty of narrow squeaks but,,, but....enough,,tractors are slow, powerful  and very very handy,,,,,,,,,,but quite deadly even when you are following the rules.
  I knew one hard working guy who worked the county spreading lime. He stopped at the head of the field to switch drive shafts from the spreader to the PTO (Big modern safety conscious tractor) ( big new ford) New drive shaft clipped into place and as he stepped over it,,it caught his trouser leg. He always worked on his own. It ripped his leg off. He tied the stump tight and crawled to the car and drove a good 35 mile at least to the hospital., He survived and got better and went back to spreading lime just like before. I simply cannot imagine the pain that that man felt and the determination that he had to stay alive. He "is" a good un.

Title: Re: tractors?
Post by: djs63 on September 29, 2018, 05:39:20 PM
And be very, very careful driving across slopes. And if something is not right, walk away, think about it, get help if necessary and if possible.  The likely injuries are horrendous, if not fatal.

Title: Re: tractors?
Post by: biff on September 29, 2018, 09:52:18 PM
I look back and read my previous post,
                         No doubt about it, I am a serious doom and gloom merchant, even if i do not intend it that way. There were lighter sides to life and some rare old laughs. The last tractor that i kept was a white 770,Selectamatic DB. It was a nice tame little thing with the 3 cylinder engine not unlike the Massey35 but the lift was dangerous. If you threw a concrete block into the link box the handle would dart into the up position and the link box would fly up to the top position. So I kept the lift controls locked with a round of elastic rubber tube. It did not have a lot of power but it was easy on diesel and pretty handy on the beach, absolutely reliable and easy started.
  Whole rural communities in Ireland and England were held together by these old tractors. They were symbols of wealth and acumen, of self made man and  "He ,s no fool".
Just this week in our local newspaper,there is the story of an local 80 year old farmer getting a fully restored 1954 DB Cropmaster for his birthday, There he is on the front page ,sitting up on the tractor which was driven into the hall where he was having his birthday party. He does not look too comfortable, ;D.
  I recall the results of the Ford Nan and the T20 going head to head over Ferguson,s 3 point linkage and hydraulics. With Henry losing the battle and getting stung for millions, making Harry richer.
There is even a T20 with an Italian built engine nothing like as good as the Ferguson one.. But all this sadly is lumped in beside the Stephenson,s Steam genius, way back when the world was young. It is all computers now, The only chips Stephenson and Ferguson had were scattered over the road to keep their boots from sticking to the tar. Computers are go. I wonder what Harry would think of it all.