Navitron Renewable Energy and Sustainability Forum

Energy/Electricity Storage and Use/Grid Connection => Off-Grid, Batteries & Inverters => Topic started by: freddyuk on September 27, 2018, 04:54:21 PM



Title: Auto start facility from key start generator??
Post by: freddyuk on September 27, 2018, 04:54:21 PM
I have a PRAMAC P6000S generator which is electric key start. I would like to connect my Victron CCGX controller to switch on the genny when required for battery charging. Problem is PRAMAC say these older models cannot be auto started/stopped but the newer ones have a connection for this option. Is it possible to wire up auto start so a 2 wire signal can do the necessary on a diesel engine?
I believe I need the priming position and then start position replicated.
Anyone any experience doing this?


Title: Re: Auto start facility from key start generator??
Post by: eabadger on September 27, 2018, 05:14:56 PM
done it on a yanmar diesel, module off ebay about 65 and then some fiddling.
i am going to do on our sdmo generator and our gcx when i get chance, got module but no time

steve

this is the one, used one before and sold with the KIPOR/Yanmar generator, got another for the new generator but sat on shelf a while....


Title: Re: Auto start facility from key start generator??
Post by: camillitech on September 27, 2018, 08:14:19 PM
I've used Murphy start modules on my own generator and AN Other and they can be configured to start just about anything but they are not cheap and to be honest I wasn't too impressed with their service. Mine has been operational with no issues for a few years but my neighbours had no end of bother with theirs and after two replacements eventually got a refund. After that I fitted a cheap Chinese one off eBlag and it's been fine. Having said that the Murphy ones disengage the starter when the frequency is up to 50Hz (or whatever you adjust it to) The cheapo ones just have a setting for how long to engage the starter for which may lead to it being in too long or not long enough. Methinks the lowest setting was 3 seconds which is too much for a Lister under most conditions.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Remote-Start-Automatic-Generator-Engine-Control-Module-Controller/221461773235?hash=item3390267bb3:m:mbOKu7C6lDqrdx30kan835g

http://www.enovationcontrols.eu/products/genset_controls/gen_set_as700.htm

Good luck, Paul.


Title: Re: Auto start facility from key start generator??
Post by: Scruff on September 27, 2018, 08:39:31 PM
It's just a slightly sophisticated automated hot-wiring system.
There's many ways to skin a cat excite a starter solenoid momentarily or mechanically couple a stepper motor to a key switch, or replace the ignition with something designed for the job.


Title: Re: Auto start facility from key start generator??
Post by: WillieG on September 27, 2018, 09:43:04 PM
These are the ones I use on my present (and on my previous) genset:
http://www.capricorn-controls.com/products.php?cat=11&subcat=19

Have also used the Gencontrol ones that Paul linked to, on other gensets, and they've been OK too.....

Cheers, Willie


Title: Re: Auto start facility from key start generator??
Post by: eabadger on September 28, 2018, 06:42:52 AM
forgot to post link to the ones i have used and have still got to fit.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DATAKOM-DKG-116-Generator-Manual-and-Remote-Start-Control-Panel-Unit-Controller/201850355085?hash=item2eff37fd8d:g:bDIAAMXQzr1RzwQA


Title: Re: Auto start facility from key start generator??
Post by: bautsche on September 28, 2018, 07:17:30 AM
I've always been very happy with my Deep Sea modules: https://www.deepseaplc.com/
There's a lot of cheap knock-offs available on ebay, specifically the 703 module for which you can also find manuals etc online, so you know what you're buying before you commit. (Note the 703 has been retired by Deep Sea themselves, but it's a perfectly adequate module)

HTH
Eric


Title: Re: Auto start facility from key start generator??
Post by: camillitech on September 28, 2018, 07:40:26 AM
I've always been very happy with my Deep Sea modules: https://www.deepseaplc.com/
There's a lot of cheap knock-offs available on ebay, specifically the 703 module for which you can also find manuals etc online, so you know what you're buying before you commit. (Note the 703 has been retired by Deep Sea themselves, but it's a perfectly adequate module)

HTH
Eric


Have you any experience of the cheapo ones Eric. We've used the genuine ones at work and the electricians swear by them but whilst the Murphy ones are expensive the DS ones are extortionate, I guess they must be 'wheel marked' or Lloyd's approved. I've always been tempted to buy a 'knock off' but never got round to it.


Title: Re: Auto start facility from key start generator??
Post by: bautsche on September 28, 2018, 09:30:56 AM
I recently bought two for about 23 each if memory serves. I needed a replacement for the one on my standby generator as that was drenched in water (long story involving shed rooves blowing off). Unfortunately, the starter motor failed for the same reason and I seem to have just blown out the replacement starter motor, too, after just four generator starts.
Replacing the original DSE703 with the knockoff 703 was straight forward, programming it was just exactly the same as the original, all the contacts were the same and in the same position and it works just as it is as a replacement for my original DSE703. The caveat being: I haven't used it a lot yet, as the generator broke again.... :-(

Eric


Title: Re: Auto start facility from key start generator??
Post by: camillitech on September 28, 2018, 10:01:03 AM
The joys of generators Eric  ::)


Title: Re: Auto start facility from key start generator??
Post by: freddyuk on September 28, 2018, 11:53:23 AM
Thanks everyone I will look through and maybe be the guinea pig for cheapo version so long as I can work out which wire goes where etc.


Title: Re: Auto start facility from key start generator??
Post by: Scruff on September 28, 2018, 12:43:12 PM
Deep Sea are the dogs danglies!


Title: Re: Auto start facility from key start generator??
Post by: Scruff on September 28, 2018, 01:19:29 PM
Thanks everyone I will look through and maybe be the guinea pig for cheapo version so long as I can work out which wire goes where etc.

If it's anything like a car the two little ones are switched fuel pump and maintained what-have-yous.
The two big ones are switched momentary for starter solenoid.
If there's a 5th I'd suspect it's a chassis ground for panel lekytronics.


Title: Re: Auto start facility from key start generator??
Post by: Justme on September 28, 2018, 08:56:18 PM
I am on my third P6000s & have fitted auto start to all of them.

If you need any tips just ask.


Title: Re: Auto start facility from key start generator??
Post by: Justme on September 28, 2018, 09:01:25 PM
PS fit relays to the output of the auto start module to lessen the load on its built in contacts then when its had some use you can replace a relay for a few not the costly auto start unit.

I have wondered about using the glow plug output to some how press the red decompression lever to ease the starters job especially when its hot.


Title: Re: Auto start facility from key start generator??
Post by: camillitech on September 28, 2018, 09:45:54 PM
I am on my third P6000s & have fitted auto start to all of them.

If you need any tips just ask.


Third generator  :o and you're still buying the same make  ??? Mine's been working since 1978 and that's me new one, me 1969 is still going fine  :genuflect


Title: Re: Auto start facility from key start generator??
Post by: Scruff on September 28, 2018, 09:54:10 PM
I've never bought one.  :P





..oh shoot..do Mercedes vans count? Mines a 1.5kVA onna good day.. whistle
I usually run outtov fresh water before electrons these days...it's a kindov autostart I suppose.. ralph:


Title: Re: Auto start facility from key start generator??
Post by: Justme on September 29, 2018, 08:18:41 PM
I am on my third P6000s & have fitted auto start to all of them.

If you need any tips just ask.


Third generator  :o and you're still buying the same make  ??? Mine's been working since 1978 and that's me new one, me 1969 is still going fine  :genuflect

Yes buy yours is noise as a noisy thing on noisy day.
One was new, one was used & one was a pile of spares before I got it & rebulit it.
Each one does over 4000 hours & at the end they still work but the quality of elec goes down as the govenor looses spec.

All of them are still in use but for different jobs.