Navitron Renewable Energy and Sustainability Forum

General Renewable Topics => Inventions, Ideas, Innovation, Bodges etc => Topic started by: knighty on April 12, 2019, 04:18:18 PM



Title: where to find electric car batteries?
Post by: knighty on April 12, 2019, 04:18:18 PM
I'd really (really) like electric vans at work, new is too expensive, but I can make the fuel savings work well with used vans

but... non of the big vans (which I need) have decent range - reported 70miles real world, probably less for me because I carry decent weight   (flower delivery vans etc. getting 70 miles)

with electric transit vans (high top, long wheel base) the batteries/motor/controller/charger is all under the bonnet, so there's loads of room underneath for more batteries (loads and loads)

but... I keep looking at can;t find any batteries for sale at a decent price (less than thousands), it seams like there's people all over the world using old car battery packs for off grid use etc. but I've no idea where they get them?

I'm not greedy expecting them for nothing, only ones I can find so far are crashed hybrid cars


I'll need to match battery chemistry if I want to use the existing battery (if it's any good) but depending which year van I bought it could be LiFePO4 or LiIon (just to make it a bit more tricky, I can't start stocking up on cells early)

any ideas anyone?


Title: Re: where to find electric car batteries?
Post by: biff on April 12, 2019, 08:59:02 PM
I wish I knew Knighty,
                          There was some guy in Norway selling used E car batts some years ago. I believe he was dealing in them and sending them to the UK when nobody here could source them.
  Over 10 years ago, I was trying to source Forklift cells. I needed 60 cells. I was lucky to buy 2 packs from a broken down forklift. One pack was OK but the other was a dud.  I then bought two forklifts. Both were running fine. but no brakes and the lifting gear was faulty. One was 72 volt and the other 48v. I just connected the 48 pack on the tynes to the pack in the 72v forklift and they worked like that for over 2 years before i built a proper place.
         My info is over 2 years out of date. Things would be much better now.
  You could advertise in a farming Magazine or free adds.   Wanted E Van,.    You could put solar pv on the transit roof and a small diesel engine underneath. I am not trying to encourage you to use fossil fuel but it would give you confidence to have a standby charger on board, Even a gas driven Petrol jobbie. These are very quiet and efficient.
       It Just an idea,
                      Biff


Title: Re: where to find electric car batteries?
Post by: brackwell on April 13, 2019, 07:48:25 AM
I suggest you go here https://www.speakev.com/

There are people there that build/repair EVs.

 I have seen adverts from scrappers even 2 Teslas at one local to me.  I can imagine that scrappers do not want to take batts out of cars for safety. I have heard that the emergency services will not touch a EV until the experts pronounce safe!


Title: Re: where to find electric car batteries?
Post by: Scruff on April 14, 2019, 12:57:52 PM
Due to the current trend in used EV battery demand I've noticed the market value of a used EV battery exceeds the price of a new 100% rated alternative.

They cost thousands because they're valued at thousands.

(https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=477403&stc=1&d=1554809242)


Title: Re: where to find electric car batteries?
Post by: Scruff on April 14, 2019, 01:00:30 PM
Link (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/17794-MILES-BATTERY-24-kwh-2015-ELECTRIC-BATTERY-295B04NF0A-FOR-NISSAN-LEAF/132892299013?fits=Model%3ALeaf&hash=item1ef0ff8f05:g:R7cAAOSw7Khcmj0g)


Title: Re: where to find electric car batteries?
Post by: knighty on April 14, 2019, 11:55:45 PM
Due to the current trend in used EV battery demand I've noticed the market value of a used EV battery exceeds the price of a new 100% rated alternative.
They cost thousands because they're valued at thousands.

I'd assumed, after seeing people experiment with them and use them at home they wouldn't be so expensive and I was just looking in the wrong place

I've read a lot of conflicting info... but an electric transit van is supposed to come with a 75kwh battery... I'd need to at least double that

looks like the plan is a no-go then :-(


this is the recent van I saw which make me think about it again...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/173867794745


Title: Re: where to find electric car batteries?
Post by: Scruff on April 15, 2019, 07:48:57 AM
EV fridge van?!?
 horror:


Title: Re: where to find electric car batteries?
Post by: biff on April 15, 2019, 08:39:12 AM
Hi Knighty
              The price is nice but it would take a heck of a lot of laptop batteries to drive it.
        Biff


Title: Re: where to find electric car batteries?
Post by: knighty on April 15, 2019, 10:03:10 AM
EV fridge van?!?
 horror:

I need fridge vans!... to delivery frozen dog food... we load up with stuff frozen to -30'C... the van freezers at to -18'C hardly run, the insulation does all the work keeping it frozen


Title: Re: where to find electric car batteries?
Post by: knighty on April 15, 2019, 10:03:43 AM
Hi Knighty
              The price is nice but it would take a heck of a lot of laptop batteries to drive it.
        Biff

I thought about those, I've messed around with them before.... would need about 10,000 of them tho :-o


Title: Re: where to find electric car batteries?
Post by: nowty on April 15, 2019, 11:05:54 AM
My benchmark cost for a new battery is the Pylontech's 2.4kWh which can be had for around 800 so that's 333 per kWh. That's a new battery that can be used independently with any system and has full BMS, i.e. short circuit protection, under voltage, over voltage, over temp and cell balancing.

A new Growatt battery is at least that price, has BMS, but cannot be used on any system other than a Growatt, hence why I rip out the cells and use without BMS but with careful monitoring and charge no more than 80% or so.

I have bought second hand 4.8kWh Growatt batteries for as low as 400 and as high as 700, so that's a price of between 83 and 145 per kWh. As I am not fully utilising the full size of them, arguably my cost per kWh is a little more, but then I might be gaining a longer life. Also I don't know how old they are and how much capacity has already been lost. Or even if they are completely faulty in some way. Luckily for me all have worked including one which had extremely low cell voltages, probably only SOC of 1% but it still accepted about 5.5KWh's back to full charge so they seem to be very resilient.

So for me, for a second hand cell, I would not pay more than 50% of the cost of an equivalent Pylontech, i.e. say 165 per kWh. Interestingly, the scrapped 24kWh Nissan Leaf battery Scruff linked to is 160 per kWh so almost in line with my own personal view.




Title: Re: where to find electric car batteries?
Post by: Scruff on April 15, 2019, 12:50:09 PM
Pylontech is limited to 90% SOC, only works with canbus and is warrantied to 60% not the standard 80%
Derate the leaf battery 30% whydya think its for sale? Then reapply cost per kWh formula


Title: Re: where to find electric car batteries?
Post by: nowty on April 15, 2019, 01:39:13 PM
Pylontech is limited to 90% SOC, only works with canbus and is warrantied to 60% not the standard 80%
Derate the leaf battery 30% whydya think its for sale? Then reapply cost per kWh formula

Pylontech works with anything if you run them as an independent battery looking after itself. I run them with my Sunny Island in parallel with the Growatts, when the voltage gets too high for them they just go into standby until the voltage drops back into their working range.


Title: Re: where to find electric car batteries?
Post by: Scruff on April 15, 2019, 05:57:38 PM
Are you telling me that pylontech works without the RJ45 connection?!

I almost bought one but fell out with it over that


Title: Re: where to find electric car batteries?
Post by: nowty on April 15, 2019, 06:45:01 PM
Are you telling me that pylontech works without the RJ45 connection?!

I almost bought one but fell out with it over that

Yes it does, and you can still link 8 together so its all under one master control.

I just took this picture now and the top left battery is the master running without any RJ45 connection to my Sunny Island.
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZqC9Qhvx/Pylontech.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)


Title: Re: where to find electric car batteries?
Post by: Scruff on April 15, 2019, 07:29:13 PM
Ffshakes....doesn't say that in the manual nor did the sales rep. Know how to do it... banghead:

Does anyone use the products they sell.. ::)


Title: Re: where to find electric car batteries?
Post by: nowty on April 15, 2019, 10:03:05 PM
Ffshakes....doesn't say that in the manual nor did the sales rep. Know how to do it... banghead:

Does anyone use the products they sell.. ::)

I only found out by accident as I was running them with a Sofar Solar ME3000SP unit.
Then I thought, I wonder if....
Set the Sofar Unit to Lead Acid and unplugged the RJ45.
And it worked !


Title: Re: where to find electric car batteries?
Post by: Mostie on April 16, 2019, 06:39:04 PM
Ffshakes....doesn't say that in the manual nor did the sales rep. Know how to do it... banghead:


Scruff, you should know better, there's always something thats not in the manual..... salesmen = failed engineers  whistle


Title: Re: where to find electric car batteries?
Post by: Scruff on April 17, 2019, 07:19:04 PM
I do know better Mostie but I wasn't willing to bet 1500 (US3000) on it, and if they can't get their own manual right what confidence have I?
They are a cheap source of LiFePO4 even if you skip the chassis and BMS.
Meh...CALBs suit my style more. Modular, versatile and non-proprietary.

Salesmen have their uses, imparting factual information is not one of them.


Title: Re: where to find electric car batteries?
Post by: oliver90owner on April 17, 2019, 09:02:34 PM
Salesmen have their uses, imparting factual information is not one of them.

Remember the definition of a salesman (compared to an engineer)?  A salesman learns less and less, about more and more, until they know b*gger all about everything. :)


Title: Re: where to find electric car batteries?
Post by: Scruff on April 18, 2019, 09:46:49 AM
A salesman doesn't sell you what you want, but what he has in stock. Their primary role is convincing the customer it's appropriate.

I don't use bricks and mortar shops so much.