Navitron Renewable Energy and Sustainability Forum

Energy/Electricity Storage and Use/Grid Connection => Grid-connected Renewables => Topic started by: Paulh_Boats on May 03, 2019, 08:20:08 PM



Title: Second generation Smart Meters - measuring export?
Post by: Paulh_Boats on May 03, 2019, 08:20:08 PM
Shell (previously First Utility) will be fitting a 2nd gen smart meter (I hope) and the installing company said one can read exported energy. Cool  8)

Has anyone successfully read exported power from a smart meter, either 1st or 2nd gen?


BTW:
My strong belief is that small scale wind/PV export should get paid the going rate per kWh from the National Grid, who would invoice ones electricity company.
A kWh exported is the same as a kWh imported - both have equal monetary value to the National Grid. Anything we export will immediately get consumed by neighbours.
The above assumes you are outside a FITs scheme.

cheers
Paul


Title: Re: Second generation Smart Meters - measuring export?
Post by: RIT on May 03, 2019, 08:59:44 PM
Shell (previously First Utility) will be fitting a 2nd gen smart meter (I hope) and the installing company said one can read exported energy. Cool  8)

Has anyone successfully read exported power from a smart meter, either 1st or 2nd gen?


BTW:
My strong belief is that small scale wind/PV export should get paid the going rate per kWh from the National Grid, who would invoice ones electricity company.
A kWh exported is the same as a kWh imported - both have equal monetary value to the National Grid. Anything we export will immediately get consumed by neighbours.
The above assumes you are outside a FITs scheme.

cheers
Paul


I can read my export from the first generation smart meter I have (installed by First Utility), but the remote device does not display the info, or any other useful detail so I have to go to the meter to read the value.

As to how much a kW of electricity is worth, don't forget that the wholesale cost of electricity only makes up about 33% of the final bill.

       https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/data-portal/breakdown-electricity-bill


Title: Re: Second generation Smart Meters - measuring export?
Post by: sam_cat on May 03, 2019, 09:54:05 PM
Smets 1 meter here, installed by OVO. It gives export as well as import, very accurate from what I can tell (well, it darn well should be!!!)



Title: Re: Second generation Smart Meters - measuring export?
Post by: todthedog on May 04, 2019, 06:38:51 AM
Perhaps total conspiracy theory, but I will not be having a smart meter installed perhaps too long in France where personal privacy is valued and defended ;D

Privacy, your every move can be monitored. These details can and are sold, maybe not yet in the UK but certainly abroad.
Health concerns over transmissions of data.

I can see no benefits to knowing that I have left a light on, there is a far more potent visual clue!  :ballspin

I may be an old dinosaur but there it is.



Title: Re: Second generation Smart Meters - measuring export?
Post by: chasfromnorfolk on May 04, 2019, 08:36:17 AM
Perhaps total conspiracy theory, but I will not be having a smart meter installed perhaps too long in France where personal privacy is valued and defended ;D

Privacy, your every move can be monitored. These details can and are sold, maybe not yet in the UK but certainly abroad.
Health concerns over transmissions of data.

I can see no benefits to knowing that I have left a light on, there is a far more potent visual clue!  :ballspin

I may be an old dinosaur but there it is.



Iíll resist too - as long as resistance is allowed - for much the same reasons.Iím quite capable of reading a meter if EDF canít be bothered to.
However, just yesterday they started their charm offensive here, inviting applications. Iím guessing compulsion canít be far behind...

Chas


Title: Re: Second generation Smart Meters - measuring export?
Post by: Paulh_Boats on May 04, 2019, 09:05:59 AM
Thanks for the feedback. It's a shame the in house display does not show real-time export.

I was hoping it could guide us to use excess PV energy immediately. For example, using appliances when we export.

Plan B is a small Arduino project. Current coil #1 clipped onto house feed, coil #2 clipped onto PV feed. If the value of coil #2 is greater, subtracting the two values gives the export "power" in real time.

It won't be calibrated accurately - I was thinking of a simple row of yellow LEDs to indicate export power.


As for privacy, Google, Facebook and most websites are lightyears ahead of us.

If you want real privacy, don't use phones, email or the internet. Good luck with that  ;)

Paul


Title: Re: Second generation Smart Meters - measuring export?
Post by: brackwell on May 04, 2019, 09:34:18 AM
Once one has a solar diverter for the DHW and an EV if you are at home,or a static batt if at work, then there is not much left to export except when on holiday.


Title: Re: Second generation Smart Meters - measuring export?
Post by: azps on May 04, 2019, 10:06:45 AM
Iíll resist too - as long as resistance is allowed - for much the same reasons.Iím quite capable of reading a meter if EDF canít be bothered to.
However, just yesterday they started their charm offensive here, inviting applications. Iím guessing compulsion canít be far behind...

I don't think compulsion will be necessary. If I'm the only person in my area with an ancient meter, it's going to cost a lot to send a meter-reader out, and I'll have to pay the full cost. And I won't be eligible for any of the new time-of-use tariffs, which means that my usage will be estimated based on worst-case figures, so my unit price will be higher too. The economics just won't justify sticking with old meters, for most people. If 5% of people stay on old meters and won't join the smart grid, then from a decarbonisation perspective that's a shame, but the damage will be marginal; and as long as the hold-outs are the ones who bear the full cost of holding out, then no one else need be disadvantaged by it.


Title: Re: Second generation Smart Meters - measuring export?
Post by: Paulh_Boats on May 04, 2019, 10:24:32 AM
Once one has a solar diverter for the DHW and an EV if you are at home,or a static batt if at work, then there is not much left to export except when on holiday.

That's partially true, but we can't justify/afford an EV for many years. Plus our solar thermal generates huge amounts of DHW - my prediction is solar thermal is inevitable for every home.

Dynamic load matching will become a way of life.

Paul




Title: Re: Second generation Smart Meters - measuring export?
Post by: todthedog on May 04, 2019, 10:27:44 AM
I read my meter once a month and send the result in to Octopus. They send and email I send it back takes 2 minutes.

As a paid up grumpy old *it, I don't much like the sound of 5G either.

Big bucks for big business, and happily for old fogies being rejected by cities worldwide.
-
Odd though it seems while I'm capable of doing so I like running my own life without still more corporate algorithms.

Bah humbug I'll get me coat stir: :fume



Title: Re: Second generation Smart Meters - measuring export?
Post by: Solarchaser on May 14, 2019, 06:06:02 PM
I have a smart meter from edf which stopped communication about 2 months after it went in 2 years ago. It does display export and I believe it to be accurate.
I have an EV and 10kwh of batteries, and for the last few days I've exported about 30kwhs each day to the grid.

Batteries are fully charged by 10am at the latest when its sunny.

I scaled up the solar from 4kw /3.6inverter to adding another 6.6kw /3.6 inverter to cope with the batteries and EV charging.... but I think I scaled up a bit too much when I'm exporting so much.


Title: Re: Second generation Smart Meters - measuring export?
Post by: bxman on May 14, 2019, 06:42:01 PM
At least you are helping to save the Planet  every little bit  helps .


Title: Re: Second generation Smart Meters - measuring export?
Post by: rogeriko on May 14, 2019, 08:11:24 PM
If you have a phone with google maps on it they know exactly where you are with an accuracy of less than a meter. How do you think they catch all those criminals? If you delete google maps it still carries on reporting your position, you cannot turn it off. All the traffic reports on the radio come from the speed that peoples phones are travelling down the road. I wouldnt worry about smart meters, the data they collect is nothing compared to Google.