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General Renewable Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: Zarch on May 23, 2019, 09:21:55 AM



Title: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on May 23, 2019, 09:21:55 AM
The Octopus Energy Agile tariff has really piqued my interest in time of use tariffs using Smart Meters.

Whilst you could grab bits and pieces of historical data from Octopus about 'Agile' it was a bit limited. ie it didn't show all DNO areas and wasn't complete back to Feb 2018.

So i've written a few scripts and pulled all the data in to one place.
  • All 30 minute data from all 14 DNOs going to back to the first day of the Agile tariff (Feb 19th 2018)..
  • The data also updates at 5pm each day after Octopus have released their next day's figures

I've then layered Grafana graphs on top so you can visualise the data yourself on my new website.

Plus, there is a Google Spreadsheet with all the historical data on.

had to scrap this as I quickly broke the 2 million cell limit on Google Sheets!!

https://www.energy-stats.uk/

I would be interested in people's thoughts on the project.

What could be done better?
What else would people like to see in terms of graphs?
Is this stuff useful?
Do you think the tariff could work for you?

I'm hoping to expand the project into their GO tariff as well as their new Agile Export figures too.

Cheers.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile Tariff analysis website
Post by: Tinbum on May 23, 2019, 09:49:54 AM
Looks really good. As a very low user and on 3 phase I dont think it would work for me though.

I've always been interested to know how energy prices vary around the country.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on May 23, 2019, 09:52:09 AM
Looks really good. As a very low user and on 3 phase I dont think it would work for me though.

I've always been interested to know how energy prices vary around the country.

Thank you.   Yeah, why does London always have the cheapest pricing and poor old Northern Scotland seems to kop for the highest pricing?


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile Tariff analysis website
Post by: azps on May 23, 2019, 10:01:09 AM
Thank you.   Yeah, why does London always have the cheapest pricing and poor old Northern Scotland seems to kop for the highest pricing?

Brilliant, thank you, that's a lovely resource.

How do Octopus Agile customers interact with the variable pricing? How much advanced notice do they get, and in what form? Mobile app notifications or something?

re regional pricing - high density of customers. Unit cost of the grid per customer is very cheap in London. And very very high in rural Scotland.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on May 23, 2019, 10:12:22 AM
I'm with Octopus, but not on Agile yet....... awaiting smart meter install.

They have an app and you can also get the figures logging in to your account as well as using the API.

And you can connect to their tariff and use IFTTT too to control your devices.
https://octopus.energy/ifttt/
https://ifttt.com/search/query/octopus

They provide all of tomorrows pricing at around 5pm the previous day, so you can make plans if there is really cheap/high pricing.

I really think time of use tariffs are the future when combined with smart devices and things like IFTTT.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on May 23, 2019, 10:15:20 AM
My next project is to add Variable / Agile Solar Export pricing history to the website..... which is Octopus next big thing.

https://octopus.energy/blog/outgoing/


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile Tariff analysis website
Post by: Stig on May 23, 2019, 10:20:11 AM
Interesting to see that weekend prices are much the same as weekday prices, I'd have expected to see a marked difference as other providers have occasionally offered free electricity on Saturdays etc.


As another low user the standing charge makes it more expensive for me (c.f. Ebico) especially as I don't have storage heaters or EV but do have PV.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile Tariff analysis website
Post by: Tinbum on May 23, 2019, 10:38:37 AM
Looks really good. As a very low user and on 3 phase I dont think it would work for me though.

I've always been interested to know how energy prices vary around the country.

Thank you.   Yeah, why does London always have the cheapest pricing and poor old Northern Scotland seems to kop for the highest pricing?

Thankfully I'm in Yorkshire. ;D


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile Tariff analysis website
Post by: dan_b on May 23, 2019, 11:39:46 AM
This is interesting, will take a look. I'm an Octopus E7 customer, will see if the Agile tariff makes any sense for me.



Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile Tariff analysis website
Post by: jtp10000 on May 24, 2019, 10:03:09 AM
Awesome work thank you. Would be great to see how it changes across the seasons as you get more data.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on May 24, 2019, 04:08:12 PM
Awesome work thank you. Would be great to see how it changes across the seasons as you get more data.

I've got all the data going back to Feb 2018, but there is only so much of it you can show on one page.

Although you can see the spread through months by clicking on your region and then looking at the third graph. 
This shows minimum, average and maximum prices for each day of the past 365 days.

Hope this helps.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on May 27, 2019, 11:33:59 AM
Just had a look at the most recent data.

Interesting, overnight last night Agile had a low of 3.11p per unit. It was no higher than 6p from midnight through to 6am, then 7p through the most of today.

I think alongside a small battery to get you over the 4pm to 7pm (20p to 23p per unit today) period if solar can't cover it, this could be a decent option for many people?

Its just about finding the right combo for your circumstances that will allow the best savings (tariff, solar, battery, ev, immersion, usage habits!)


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile Tariff analysis website
Post by: azps on May 27, 2019, 12:06:03 PM
Just had a look at the most recent data.

Interesting, overnight last night Agile had a low of 3.11p per unit. It was no higher than 6p from midnight through to 6am, then 7p through the most of today.

Yup, it's an unusual day. Very low demand (19 GW overnight, which is about as low as it gets), with very high winds, so very low wholesale prices. And now we've got low-ish demand (31 GW), and a decent showing from both wind and PV (about 5.7 GW each) and plenty of cheap imports too.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile Tariff analysis website
Post by: samss on May 27, 2019, 08:37:35 PM
Looks really good. As a very low user and on 3 phase I dont think it would work for me though.

Yeah they ignored me after promising to switch, then decided they couldn't because i am a 3phase customer. It's a shame, i would just about have been happy to have 2 phases disconnected to use Agile, but they stopped responding to my emails!



Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on May 28, 2019, 08:23:03 AM
Just had a look at the most recent data.

Interesting, overnight last night Agile had a low of 3.11p per unit. It was no higher than 6p from midnight through to 6am, then 7p through the most of today.

Yup, it's an unusual day. Very low demand (19 GW overnight, which is about as low as it gets), with very high winds, so very low wholesale prices. And now we've got low-ish demand (31 GW), and a decent showing from both wind and PV (about 5.7 GW each) and plenty of cheap imports too.

Brilliant data, thanks.

I bet there is some correlation between 'how' its generating, where its coming from and the actual demand around their pricing.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile Tariff analysis website
Post by: jtp10000 on May 28, 2019, 10:22:44 AM
Just had a look at the most recent data.

Interesting, overnight last night Agile had a low of 3.11p per unit. It was no higher than 6p from midnight through to 6am, then 7p through the most of today.

I think alongside a small battery to get you over the 4pm to 7pm (20p to 23p per unit today) period if solar can't cover it, this could be a decent option for many people?

Its just about finding the right combo for your circumstances that will allow the best savings (tariff, solar, battery, ev, immersion, usage habits!)

Interesting point. Of course if you approach like this it totally changes the maths of getting a battery.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on May 28, 2019, 01:13:06 PM
I've added a simple single page showing what the Go tariff looks like in graph form as well as the current "out of the 5p four hour slot" pricing across the UK.

https://www.energy-stats.uk/octopus-go-tariff/


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on June 02, 2019, 08:44:15 AM
Electricity was as low at 2.1p overnight on Agile.....   exhappy:

(https://i.postimg.cc/5NGFBWZx/Agile.png)

https://www.energy-stats.uk/


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on June 07, 2019, 10:59:08 AM
Hi all,

I'm pleased to announce an update to my little home-brew website; Go versus Agile

This was actually a feature request from a user so I was happy to oblige.

There are two new graphs for each of the 14 UK regions.

1. Go versus Agile (00:30 to 04:30 only) for the last 365 days
2. Last 7 days of full daily pricing from both tariffs

https://www.energy-stats.uk/octopus-go-versus-agile/ (https://www.energy-stats.uk/octopus-go-versus-agile/)

I think if you have an EV then Go seems to win hands down with its fixed 5p for 4 hours each and every day.

If you have Solar PV and/or maybe a battery that can get you over the 4pm to 7pm period then I think Agile could well be the cheaper option?

But everyone has different usage patterns and configurations, so ultimately the decision is up to you.

These 'time of use' tariffs in conjunction with smart meters are surely the future of electricity provision?

Hope you are finding this data useful?  Please let me know your thoughts etc.

Hoping to add some more features in the coming weeks.  Next up I want to look at the new Outgoing / Export tariffs.

Cheers.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on June 19, 2019, 01:00:19 PM
New Website Update - Octopus Outgoing / Export tariff historical and current data.
This data is just what those Solar PV owners have been waiting for.

https://www.energy-stats.uk/

Discussion points and my notes/thoughts for Octopus Outgoing Export Tariffs

- Their fixed 5.5p per kWh fixed outgoing is a 2.2% increase over current Feed in Tariff (FIT) based 5.38p.

- These Outgoing tariffs only replace the 'export' element of the FIT.  Your generation payments will still come from your registered FIT supplier.

- Both Fixed and Agile Outgoing are "actual" export rather than "deemed" 50% as per FIT.

- You are likely better to stay put on deemed 50% if your export less than 50% of what you generate. ie, if you have immersion diversion, EV or other high daytime usage.

- If you export more than 50% of what you generate the maths suggest you'd be better off on an 'actual' export tariff. The could well be the case with larger Solar installs.

- Octopus add credit to your bill each day for your exports. Assuming you spend more on "inbound" energy than you earn on "outbound" they'll aim to set direct debits at a level consistent with the estimated annual net amount. If you're in credit you can withdraw at will online. (From Octopus CEO)

- In comparison current FIT payments are usually every 3 months.

- You need to be on an Octopus import tariff to have one of their export tariffs.

- It will be very interesting to see the Agile Outgoing price through the winter months.  The outgoing tariffs only started on 19th May 2019, so we have little historical data to analyse.

- Whilst its easy to claim 11p per unit and above between 4pm and 7pm during the summer because of late sunset times, its going to be impossible through the winter months with 4pm sunsets.

- Moving to Octopus requires a 12 month commitment for FIT payments.  This is across the board, you can only move FIT supplier once a year.

- But this does not apply to 'export' supplier.  You can move when you want.  Plus, you can freely move between Fixed and Agile Outgoing / Export plans once with Octopus.

- So maybe there is opportunity to crunch the numbers to see if Fixed or Agile are better suited at different times of the year?

- Will the Octopus Fixed Outgoing tariff increase with inflation as per the current FIT rewards?

- The FAQ says there is nothing stopping you charging a battery using Solar during the day for free then selling back that energy between 4pm and 7pm for 11p+.

https://octopus.energy/outgoing/
https://octopus.energy/blog/outgoing/

Find all the Outgoing current/historical stats and pricing at https://www.energy-stats.uk/

If you have any ideas of what else you'd like to see please let me know.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: JohnS on June 19, 2019, 01:43:43 PM
These comments are no longer relevant as the above post has been edited to correct the error

New Website Update - Octopus Outgoing / Export tariff historical and current data.
This data is just what those Solar PV owners have been waiting for.

https://www.energy-stats.uk/

Discussion points and my notes/thoughts for Octopus Outgoing Export Tariffs


- Both Fixed and Agile Outgoing are "actual" export rather than "deemed" 50% as per FIT.

- You are likely better to stay put on deemed 50% if your export more than 50% of what you generate. ie, if you have immersion diversion, EV or other high daytime usage.

- If you use less than 50% of want you generate the maths suggest you'd be better off on an 'actual' export tariff.  The could well be the case with larger Solar installs.


If you have any ideas of what else you'd like to see please let me know.

Your analysis is confusing me.

First scenario - if your export more than 50% of what you generate - surely it is better to be paid per unit of export rather than just for 50%

Second scenario - If you use less than 50% of want what you generate - this is the same as the first scenario.  If you use less than 50%, you export more that 50%.

Or is my brain not working?

Also, does the 5.5p payment also apply to those on the older 3p plus inflation export tariff?


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on June 19, 2019, 03:02:21 PM
Thanks John.  I've updated the text.

I knew what I wanted to say, just got a little confused typing it.....  banghead:

Hope the update is a bit clearer?

With regard the older export tariffs, I've contacted Octopus to find out..... will let you know.

April 2010 to 30 July 2012: 3.82p
On or after 1 August 2012: 5.38p



Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: JohnS on June 19, 2019, 03:44:14 PM
Zach
It makes sense now.
John


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on June 19, 2019, 08:21:22 PM
Also, does the 5.5p payment also apply to those on the older 3p plus inflation export tariff?


John,

I asked Octopus the following..... hope this helps.

"Another question about Outgoing tariffs. There are two FIT export tariffs dependant on install date. 

April 2010 to 30 July 2012: 3.82p
On or after 1 August 2012: 5.38p

Can pre-July 2012 installs join Outgoing? Do they get 5.5p per kWh / Agile pricing?"

Their reply was:

Ok, those are the FiT rates you’ve quoted there. Outgoing has just the two rates. You can switch to Outgoing (either 5.5 or Agile version) irrespective of which FiT rate you have. Hope that helps - but do drop us a DM / message if you have any questions & we can go through everything.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: JohnS on June 19, 2019, 08:31:07 PM
Thanks.
It looks a great deal for pre 2012 installs


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on June 29, 2019, 08:26:17 PM
More crazy Agile prices overnight.  Down as low at 1.26p per unit and below 8p through most of tomorrow. :)

https://www.energy-stats.uk/octopus-agile-yorkshire/


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on July 12, 2019, 08:54:32 AM
Website update:

As Octopus Energy outgoing tariff (ie the FIT export replacement) tariff is now 2 months old i'm now showing 60 days data from the Agile version of the tariff.

Hopefully more info for those considering moving away from FIT export payments or for new installs needing someone to take their excess generation.

Full details over on the site.  https://www.energy-stats.uk


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: jtp10000 on July 12, 2019, 02:44:57 PM
Interesting to see that the overnight tariff is rarely near the 5p Octopus Go Level.
It would be great to do a calc to see how cheap a house battery would need to be to make a 5 year payback on Agility. The simple approach might be a battery that would only need to bridge those expensive 2.5 hours in the evening and then the rest of the time you are on 7p.kwh ish. I should try. I can't believe it is that far off before it is a no brainer.
BUT then of course how quickly will the prices start evening out if lots of people get batteries, killing your 5 year payback. Also the utilities would be mad, after all the SMETS installations & data, to not start providing substantial incentives that discourage people charging their cars at 6pm.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Philip R on July 12, 2019, 11:45:04 PM
jtp,
As more smets meter data is analysed, the power companies will be able to dis incentivise those whom charge their cars at evening peak times. i.e. Switch them off using the meter internal contactor. In my previous employment, the factory where I worked, had some very large loads which if turned on or used at the wrong time, would lead to the business being charged a punitive rate for electricity for the next 3 months. A very strong incentive. That is why the diesel generators were fired up. Expensive, but cheaper than the punitive tariff.
Philip R


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: russ_fae_fyvie on July 21, 2019, 07:39:37 PM
As we are about to move into the new house I have just switched to Octopus from SSE and once on I believe the Smart Meter follows, been interesting reading the above (the bits I understood!) but what I want to try to do is progress to Agile (if possible) and program my Powerwall 2 to charge up (if needed) at certain cheap times.

At the moment I am just getting to grips with the PV and Tesla setup, I do know that in the last week 98% of the power used in the house is 'Self Generated', I know we aren't in yet but the ASHP is working along with the UFH and generally using 200 w which seems good. I know things will change once the Winter comes along so that's why I'm looking to get cheap rate charging on the battery and from what I can see above its a good possibility.

Still watching with interest!


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Fintray on July 21, 2019, 09:19:24 PM
Hi Russ

Just waiting for my smart meter install to get on to the agile outgoing tariff, I'll let you know how I get on.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on July 22, 2019, 09:58:32 AM
As we are about to move into the new house I have just switched to Octopus from SSE and once on I believe the Smart Meter follows, been interesting reading the above (the bits I understood!) but what I want to try to do is progress to Agile (if possible) and program my Powerwall 2 to charge up (if needed) at certain cheap times.

At the moment I am just getting to grips with the PV and Tesla setup, I do know that in the last week 98% of the power used in the house is 'Self Generated', I know we aren't in yet but the ASHP is working along with the UFH and generally using 200 w which seems good. I know things will change once the Winter comes along so that's why I'm looking to get cheap rate charging on the battery and from what I can see above its a good possibility.

Still watching with interest!
Do keep us updated.

I think the key to making best use of these tariffs is the hardware/battery manufacturers software being up to the job.  ie charge when free (solar) or low price (Agile/Go) then export back when best price (agile outgoing).   And hopefully do all this in the background with little input.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on August 13, 2019, 01:04:25 PM
As their Export tariff (Outgoing) is coming up to 3 months old I've updated the site to show up to 90 days data now.

https://www.energy-stats.uk/octopus-agile-outgoing-export/


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on August 16, 2019, 06:18:29 PM
Agile pricing down as low at 1.68p per unit at 7am.

They'll be paying us to use it soon!!  ;D

https://www.energy-stats.uk/octopus-agile-yorkshire/


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: brackwell on August 17, 2019, 08:49:19 AM
Wait till winter comes.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on August 17, 2019, 06:23:40 PM
1.05p per unit coming up overnight..... must be super windy and those turbines meaning lots of surplus energy when most folk don't need it!

I'm sure it will still be windy in winter??


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: nowty on August 17, 2019, 07:40:41 PM
1.05p per unit coming up overnight..... must be super windy and those turbines meaning lots of surplus energy when most folk don't need it!

I'm sure it will still be windy in winter??

Yes, generally more windy in winter but there will be a LOT more demand and less solar so normally higher prices.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on August 30, 2019, 08:43:10 AM
The Agile tariff is now over 18 months old and I was looking back and the history of the pricing yesterday.  Geek that I am!!  exhappy:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48646444467_194124fcc2_c.jpg)

So, what's driving the price down?

  • More renewables? ie 24hr wind contribution? and more Solar?
  • Overall downward trend in wholesale pricing? (driven by low gas prices?)
  • Octopus getting a better handle on pricing versus demand versus profitability?

Or a combination of everything? :D


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on September 22, 2019, 03:24:11 PM
Been a while since I posted some Agile prices...... here's last night.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48775457062_a8f77be085_z.jpg)

5p per unit for around 6 hours straight from midnight onwards.

This is certainly a growing trend.  exhappy:


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: citrus on October 02, 2019, 09:45:36 AM
Also, does the 5.5p payment also apply to those on the older 3p plus inflation export tariff?


John,

I asked Octopus the following..... hope this helps.

"Another question about Outgoing tariffs. There are two FIT export tariffs dependant on install date. 

April 2010 to 30 July 2012: 3.82p
On or after 1 August 2012: 5.38p

Can pre-July 2012 installs join Outgoing? Do they get 5.5p per kWh / Agile pricing?"

Their reply was:

Ok, those are the FiT rates you’ve quoted there. Outgoing has just the two rates. You can switch to Outgoing (either 5.5 or Agile version) irrespective of which FiT rate you have. Hope that helps - but do drop us a DM / message if you have any questions & we can go through everything.


Bit late to this party but very interested in the numbers and will read and re-read this some more .

I have a 3.76kw install from August 2011 (croydon area) and been stuck with SSE since day one  .. but thinking of an EV car but the import/export looks like an interesting game to play.



Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: oliver90owner on October 02, 2019, 01:09:04 PM
Watch something like gridwatch.templar.  Fossil fuel usage is the driver, I think - apart from demand.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: phoooby on October 02, 2019, 06:43:41 PM
Octopus have now teamed up with Tesla to give an offering for those with a Tesla car, solar and powerwall. Not sure of the deatails of how it will work but they seem to have an import rate of 8p (24/7) and an export rate of 7p. I assume there will be some controls for them to export from powerwall to the grid at peak times but not sure how that will work and I am not even sure Tesla allow PW export. Its not for me as I dont have a Tesla wall box (the other requirement, even though it is a dumb charger). Currently using zappi and Go with 79%+ of peak times (0430 to 1230) covered by PV and powerwall. 


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on October 10, 2019, 05:43:22 PM
LOW, LOW, LOW.

One-third of a penny per unit tonight!!

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48876469732_a5c95623af_z.jpg)


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: citrus on October 11, 2019, 10:43:22 AM
one question on this

I am still with SSE for my exports and have been since day 1

The octupus outgoing carrot  ... is the flat rate being higher than I currently make

"As the FiT Export rate is now 5.38pence and our flat rate is 5.5pence"

It doesnt look much of a carrot and trouble is what is to stop them trimming that down  at some future point ?


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Westie on October 11, 2019, 11:32:01 AM
one question on this

I am still with SSE for my exports and have been since day 1

The octupus outgoing carrot  ... is the flat rate being higher than I currently make

"As the FiT Export rate is now 5.38pence and our flat rate is 5.5pence"

It doesnt look much of a carrot and trouble is what is to stop them trimming that down  at some future point ?

IIRC for the remainder of your FiT agreement the export rate is index linked in the same way the generation rate is, so at 5.5p I see no incentive to switch at all.



Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Westie on October 11, 2019, 12:05:50 PM
Hmmm..  I just realised that I've ended up with Octopus by default as they've just acquired Co-op energy, who had previously acquired UK Power and Flow Energy. 

So, how could i utilise their Agile tarrif,  is there a system available to trigger devices capable of storing the cheap energy eg. storage heating, water heating, battery storage?

Seems to be a huge potential here if such a system could be allied with a short term weather forecast to predict likley energy demand in the next 24H.

 





Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: dan_b on October 11, 2019, 12:29:47 PM
Agile will at a minimum send you text messages to tell you what the pricing is going to be so you get direct reminiders/instructions that it might be a good idea to turn on the tumble dryer at 3am.
Octopus has made its API open to people so you can develop your own apps to control smart devices in response to Octopus pricing data using If This Then That.
If you have an EV, I think you can make smart chargers like Zappi and/or the Ohme Smart cable work to automatically charge your car when its cheap.





Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Countrypaul on October 11, 2019, 12:37:57 PM
Agile will at a minimum send you text messages to tell you what the pricing is going to be so you get direct reminiders/instructions that it might be a good idea to turn on the tumble dryer at 3am.


But probably not a good if you have a tumble dryer made by Whirlpool...  sh*tfan:

(Can't see a house burning icon)


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: dan_b on October 11, 2019, 02:11:28 PM
 :hysteria

Agile will at a minimum send you text messages to tell you what the pricing is going to be so you get direct reminiders/instructions that it might be a good idea to turn on the tumble dryer at 3am.


But probably not a good if you have a tumble dryer made by Whirlpool...  sh*tfan:

(Can't see a house burning icon)


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: brackwell on October 11, 2019, 02:26:17 PM

If you have an EV, I think you can make smart chargers like Zappi and/or the Ohme Smart cable work to automatically charge your car when its cheap.


Can one ? never heard that mentioned.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Westie on October 11, 2019, 04:20:15 PM

If you have an EV, I think you can make smart chargers like Zappi and/or the Ohme Smart cable work to automatically charge your car when its cheap.


Can one ? never heard that mentioned.

Seems so.....     

https://www.octopusev.com/

I'm impressed that Octopus really seem to be getting stuck in.



Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: brackwell on October 11, 2019, 05:16:00 PM
I was a bit bored until i found this

"Unfortunately, we do not yet support solar integrations, but we are working on it."

Imagine if they could take notice of solar and import/export house flows as well !

Ken


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on October 13, 2019, 03:02:58 PM
one question on this

I am still with SSE for my exports and have been since day 1

The octupus outgoing carrot  ... is the flat rate being higher than I currently make

"As the FiT Export rate is now 5.38pence and our flat rate is 5.5pence"

It doesnt look much of a carrot and trouble is what is to stop them trimming that down  at some future point ?

One would 'assume' that Octopus would also increase there rate in line with the FIT rate.  It wouldn't make any sense to fall behind the FIT rate.

Also, the number one differential between FIT and Octopus is deemed 50%.
FIT is Deemed 50%
Octopus is actual export...... so if you don't use much of what you generate there is something to consider there.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on November 08, 2019, 08:31:05 AM
The latest fruits of my coding labour is a new Twitter account (@energystatsuk) that tweets out and graphs the next days Octopus Agile tariff data each evening.

https://twitter.com/energystatsuk

Its work in progress, so if anyone has any thoughts or comments please let me know.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49032008968_14150e5c1d_z.jpg)


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: dan_b on November 08, 2019, 09:00:07 AM
Nice!


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on December 07, 2019, 07:12:41 PM
Utter Madness on Octopus Agile tariff tonight.

Over 5 hours of negative pricing, so you GET PAID to use as much electricity as you want.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49183873586_b326dae0c3_z.jpg)

Min: -1.8p (02:30)
Max: 25.3p (17:00)
Average: 6.8p
Av Excl Peak: 4.2p
Go Period (0030-0430): -0.8p
Peak Time (1600-1900): 24.0p

Stats via https://www.energy-stats.uk/

Follow on Twitter: @energystatsuk


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: dan_b on December 07, 2019, 11:02:37 PM
That will be what 14GW of wind and 7.5GW of nuclear does on the grid overnight!  “Please use this electricity”


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: RIT on December 07, 2019, 11:40:23 PM
I think this is where their current rate calculation should be changed so that their coefficient only applies when they have a positive cost of energy.

Currently, negative energy costs that benefit a few people who can run large loads for a few hours will hit with Octupus operational costs that then must be covered by all their customers.

From a PR point of view being able to say that electricity is free is a major win, having others pay to provide below zero electricity is debatable.



Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on December 08, 2019, 04:13:49 PM
It gets even better tonight........ get paid almost 5p per unit!!!

What is this windy madness!!

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49188300636_f66c7f5904_z.jpg)


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: phoooby on December 08, 2019, 06:51:31 PM
Quote
I think this is where their current rate calculation should be changed so that their coefficient only applies when they have a positive cost of energy.

Currently, negative energy costs that benefit a few people who can run large loads for a few hours will hit with Octupus operational costs that then must be covered by all their customers.

From a PR point of view being able to say that electricity is free is a major win, having others pay to provide below zero electricity is debatable.

But having negative pricing helps people fund storage/ev's which help overall. People with storage in particular will be avoiding the 4-8pm peak for cost purposes but this also assists by reducing peak demand from the grid. Anything to assist take up of home storage has to be a good thing for the grid and carbon emissions as a whole.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: RIT on December 08, 2019, 07:28:49 PM
Quote
I think this is where their current rate calculation should be changed so that their coefficient only applies when they have a positive cost of energy.

Currently, negative energy costs that benefit a few people who can run large loads for a few hours will hit with Octupus operational costs that then must be covered by all their customers.

From a PR point of view being able to say that electricity is free is a major win, having others pay to provide below zero electricity is debatable.

But having negative pricing helps people fund storage/ev's which help overall. People with storage in particular will be avoiding the 4-8pm peak for cost purposes but this also assists by reducing peak demand from the grid. Anything to assist take up of home storage has to be a good thing for the grid and carbon emissions as a whole.

I've no problems with electricity being sold at below a zero cost (I'm on the Agile tariff). The issue is that the pricing structure of the tariff is quoted as being 'coefficient x wholesale cost of electricity'. Where the coefficient is a value to cover all the costs that Octopus incurs and a profit margin so that they can stay in business. So at the moment if they are purchasing electricity at say -2p per kWh they are selling to consumers at between -4p and -4.4p, with Octopus now making a business loss that must be covered by charging its customers more at other times of the day. Don't forget that a fair amount of the cost that Octopus must cover by their coefficient value is to cover the contracts of differance that are enabling the negative priced electricity in the first place.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: dan_b on December 08, 2019, 08:51:26 PM
So I got in touch with Octopus to see if I can try out Agile for a few weeks and if it doesn't work out for me could I switch back to Go without penalty.

They said yes, so I've just swapped from Go to Agile to get in on these plunge prices tonight!

Currently setting my PowerVault, ImmerSUN, washing machine and dishwasher all to run during the negative price period between 2.30 and 5.00am.  Let's see if it makes any difference...


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: bleem2k on December 08, 2019, 09:19:18 PM
Awesome work @Zarch - one minor (hopefuly) ask - could you make the origin / 0 line on the twitter graphs bold or red (or both!) Just some way at a glance you can see when it goes negative.

Thanks again for the great website... without it I wouldn't have even considered Octopus.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: RIT on December 08, 2019, 09:22:38 PM
Currently setting my PowerVault, ImmerSUN, washing machine and dishwasher all to run during the negative price period between 2.30 and 5.00am.  Let's see if it makes any difference...

Sadly we live in a world where most local fire services have the following statement

     "don't leave appliances such as dishwashers, tumble dryers and washing machines on when you're out or asleep".

It says a lot when we have to monitor costly devices so that as and when they go wrong we can run away quickly.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: dan_b on December 08, 2019, 09:45:37 PM
Oh well if I burn to death overnight you’ll know why  :o


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: phoooby on December 08, 2019, 10:35:34 PM
RIT, I misunderstood you then. I haven't looked into the calculations but I assumed that Octopus were still making money with negative pricing.  I do wonder when or if  mandatory TOU will eventually come to everyone like we now all have water meters.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: RIT on December 09, 2019, 12:38:19 AM
RIT, I misunderstood you then. I haven't looked into the calculations but I assumed that Octopus were still making money with negative pricing.  I do wonder when or if  mandatory TOU will eventually come to everyone like we now all have water meters.

They don't make money if the calculation is as simple as the one they tell their customers. It may be that the reality is different.

My guess is that we can expect to see TOU tariffs become the norm with the next 10 years, otherwise, we will need to have a lot of spare generation capacity to cope with the peak evening demand as we switch to EVs and natural gas is dropped from new home designs. Between now and then a lot is going to change as there is already a focus on moving more of the network costs onto the standing charge and even Octopus current peak rate charges are currently often driven by them adding 12p to the cost of each kWh during the peak hours rather than just price increases by their supplier.

The one thing that seems very clear is that all this is going to happen without the politicians being open about the long term direction after all smart meters are still 'optional'.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: dan_b on December 09, 2019, 07:26:43 AM
Well my house didn’t burn down, so all is good.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: brackwell on December 09, 2019, 07:43:35 AM
PS I dont have a water meter nor a smart meter.  Like smoking get to a certain % by one way or another and then when they make it compulsory there are not enough complainers to object and those who have changed are extolling the virtues.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on December 09, 2019, 08:27:10 AM
Awesome work @Zarch - one minor (hopefuly) ask - could you make the origin / 0 line on the twitter graphs bold or red (or both!) Just some way at a glance you can see when it goes negative.

Thanks again for the great website... without it I wouldn't have even considered Octopus.

Yep, realised over the weekend that my Twitter graphs don't handle the negative stuff very well.   :hysteria

Its on my to-do list to try and make it all look a bit more obvious when it goes negative.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: dan_b on December 09, 2019, 09:13:55 AM
At what time of the day does Octopus publish its prices for the next 24 hour period on Agile?


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: bleem2k on December 09, 2019, 09:43:29 AM
4pm the day before (typically)

https://developer.octopus.energy/docs/api/

"Agile Octopus
If you’re using this API to query future unit-rates of the Agile Octopus product, note that day-ahead prices are normally created by 4pm in the Europe/London timezone. Furether, the market index used to calculate unit rates is based in the CET timezone (UTC+1) and so its “day” corresponds to 11pm to 11pm in UK time. Hence, if you query today’s unit rates before 4pm, you’ll get 46 results back rather than 48."


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: dan_b on December 09, 2019, 10:20:37 AM
Thanks.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: dan_b on December 09, 2019, 04:03:40 PM
No negative pricing tonight, damn!  ::)


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: RIT on December 09, 2019, 05:28:16 PM
No negative pricing tonight, damn!  ::)

I don't think you can plan on them happening often. They basically need above-average temperatures and high winds.

The graphs over at gridwatch would seem to provide a strong indication of negative prices. Over the last week CCGT generation was pushed down by high levels of wind generation and when combined with the lower overall demand at the weekend we got our free power.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: nowty on December 09, 2019, 09:47:42 PM
So I got in touch with Octopus to see if I can try out Agile for a few weeks and if it doesn't work out for me could I switch back to Go without penalty.

They said yes, so I've just swapped from Go to Agile to get in on these plunge prices tonight!

You should be able to swap as there is no exit penalty, but you do risk the Go tariff changing to worse terms before you opt back in. Only once your on it, its guaranteed for 12 months.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: brackwell on December 10, 2019, 08:28:51 AM
The prices we see are the spot prices brought about by the necessaty to buy or sell to balance the supply/demand. The major contracts are done yrs,months and days ahead. If the suppliers produce/supply more than their contract then they have to sell on the open market hopefully to someone who is unable to fulfill their contract. The price will drop to the point where a deal can be done or increased demand can be stimulated eg EV,pumped storage,Interconnectors  or someone can reduce supply and buy at the cheaper spot price.  In one sense i guess EVs and other storage can easily act as a price stabaliser. 

People banking on negative prices are up against a very experienced trading system, but who knows these are changing times.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Sprinter on December 10, 2019, 10:15:27 AM
I changed my charging schedules yesterday to have a look at how we cope with batteries between 16:00 > 19:00 peak period, i have not told the wife i have done this as it makes no difference what i say, advise, persuade or cajole, that woman is not for changing her ways  :(

But i guess that over the next few days of testing i will get an honest evaluation of how the batteries cope with this period, and based on what i see i may well switch to the agile tarrif, which will mean getting a smart meter fitted though.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on December 13, 2019, 01:00:56 PM
I was asked if I could add the daily Agile pricing in table format.

Whilst I can't guarantee I can add everything asked for, this one seemed to work out ok.

So I've added table based pricing as an alternative to the graphs/charts to each of the 14 DNO regional Agile and Agile Outgoing pages.

For example: https://www.energy-stats.uk/octopus-agile-yorkshire/

Hope this helps folks.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: dan_b on December 16, 2019, 06:03:48 PM
What's the highest rate that Agile has gone to?
Tomorrow at 4.30pm its 33.25p/kWh, which sounds pretty spendy?

I must admit the novelty of Agile is starting to wear off on me now, having to check every day for the rates and then changing the battery charge times and washing machine/ dishwasher run programs accordingly.  It requires a lot of management! 


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: RIT on December 16, 2019, 09:49:15 PM
What's the highest rate that Agile has gone to?
Tomorrow at 4.30pm its 33.25p/kWh, which sounds pretty spendy?

I must admit the novelty of Agile is starting to wear off on me now, having to check every day for the rates and then changing the battery charge times and washing machine/ dishwasher run programs accordingly.  It requires a lot of management! 

Just make sure that you keep out of the 4pm-7pm range as that is their 'peak' time and get on with life. As long as you use a fair amount of electricity each day outside of those hours it is currently one of the lowest, if not the lowest cost tariff for electricity. For their gas tariff they can be under cut and I may split my providers in the new year due to this as they have no exit charges.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: nowty on December 16, 2019, 09:54:54 PM
I must admit the novelty of Agile is starting to wear off on me now, having to check every day for the rates and then changing the battery charge times and washing machine/ dishwasher run programs accordingly.  It requires a lot of management! 

That's why I prefer Octopus Go, the cheap rate is on average cheaper than Agile and I can fit the whole days leccy into the 4 hour cheap slot so no need to change anything on a daily basis.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: dan_b on December 16, 2019, 10:09:45 PM
Yeah so I’ve basically been trying to ensure my little PowerVault is fully charged and ready for the 4-7pm peak in order to cover that as much as possible, whilst trying to charge it at the cheapest rate - the round trip efficiency isn’t class leading and it only charges at a max 700W so it needs more than the 4 hours on Go to get a decent charge and to last through the day. 
Maybe I’m trying too hard!
I notice the standing charge on Agile is lower than Go though which is good.



Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: phoooby on December 17, 2019, 12:47:23 AM
Apparently there is now a 'Go Faster' tariff being trialled. 5 hrs at 5.5p and you choose the 5 hrs from 8.30 pm onward but has to end before 6am. Other option is 3 hrs at 4.5p on the same timing restrictions. I assume the remainder is at the same Go peak rate but not looked on the website yet to see the detail if there is any as it is only a trial. Sounds interesting as having looked at my latest usage, I seem to run out of Powerwall at 2000-2030 most nights. I am averaging less than 7p per unit over the month for my leccy so not using much peak in the big scheme of things. I don think I would be better off on Agile, especially given all the hassle of looking up rates every day to change timers etc. I guess the only downside of moving to 5.5p for 5 hrs from 2030 would be higher carbon electricity going by my gridcarbon phone app. I'm sure I would be better off financially and perhaps I am over thinking it as Go is a green tariff anyway. Might have to look into it if it 'GOes' beyond a trial (pun intended). 


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on December 17, 2019, 08:30:46 AM
I've made some changes to my code over the weekend which should now enable quicker updates to the website (https://www.energy-stats.uk/) and posting the Agile pricing summary graph out via @energystatsuk

I used to have a set cron job at 6pm that did all the work, but i've now put some ongoing checks from 4pm onwards looking for new pricing via the API and acting upon them when I see them posted.

Its seems to have been stable over the past few days, so hopefully will continue to work as planned in to the future.  ;D


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: dan_b on December 19, 2019, 03:16:56 PM
Hey Zarch
Something odd - the rates from your site for my region (London) and what Octopus is actually telling me on my account (TW9 2LW), don't seem to match?  Screenshots below, am I doing something wrong? 


(https://i.postimg.cc/DJtYRPbZ/agile-london-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DJtYRPbZ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/mzc5d5kJ/agile-london-octopus.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mzc5d5kJ)


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on January 11, 2020, 09:13:43 PM
Hey Zarch
Something odd - the rates from your site for my region (London) and what Octopus is actually telling me on my account (TW9 2LW), don't seem to match?  Screenshots below, am I doing something wrong? 


(https://i.postimg.cc/DJtYRPbZ/agile-london-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DJtYRPbZ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/mzc5d5kJ/agile-london-octopus.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mzc5d5kJ)


Apologies, only just seen this.   Still having problems?


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on January 11, 2020, 09:13:59 PM
I managed to spend a bit of time over Christmas and New Year coding some new functionality for the site that I've just put live.

Download historical Agile and Agile Outgoing data.

Far and away the most frequent request I get to the site is “Where can I get full historical pricing data for Agile and/or Agile Outgoing?”

Usually cos they want to do their own geeky analysis of the figures.

Agile started on 18th February 2018.

Agile Outgoing started on 15th May 2019.

Both data sets go right back to day one for each tariff will be updated every day with the new pricing from the Octopus API, so usually sometime after around 4pm.

If you’ve had the daily graph tweet from @energystatsuk then you know the underlying data will have been updated for that day.

https://www.energy-stats.uk/download-historical-pricing-data/ (https://www.energy-stats.uk/download-historical-pricing-data/)

Hope you find this useful.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on January 17, 2020, 02:24:18 PM
Just added a new graph to the site on each of the 14 regional "Go versus Agile" pages.

This new one is Go versus Agile (00:30 to 04:30) for the previous year, but shows Agile as a weekly average.

For example: https://www.energy-stats.uk/octopus-go-versus-agile-london/

Hope this helps.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49398602443_21cd24d15e_z.jpg)


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on January 30, 2020, 10:51:22 AM
It was clear that comparing Go (00:30 to 04:30 with Agile (00:30 to 04:30) pricing is an unfair comparison.

I think a fairer comparison is Go versus an average of the lowest 4 hours each day of Agile, so the cheapest 8 x 30 min slots each day.

Note: The 4 hours (8 x 30 mins slots) may not well not be sequential.  They could be picked randomly from throughout the day.

From today, you can now see those comparisons on each of 14 regional Go versus Agile page.

For example: https://www.energy-stats.uk/octopus-go-versus-agile-london/ (https://www.energy-stats.uk/octopus-go-versus-agile-london/)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49463849797_0538df6859_z.jpg)

The same cheapest 4hr average stats are also available on the weekly summary graphs too that are on the same page.

Hope this helps.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Aunat on February 04, 2020, 10:58:35 AM
I've been lurking for a few days now and not posted anything. I just wanted to say that you've gone above and beyond with your work on this, and many thanks for all the info. I was actually debating doing an excel comparison myself until I found this thread  ;D

Oddly I only came across Octopus just last week and I was debating changing my electricity provider to them, but the sticking factor for me is that I have 3 phase, and it's more than likely a long winded process to get them to install a smart meter, and ideally I don't want to go on their normal tariff for six weeks whilst they set it up, especially in January while I'm importing electricity. Come March and I'll be completely 'off-grid' and it'll be worth the swap from then on in.

I wonder why Octopus GO doesn't come up on MSE's energy club comparison? any idea?


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: nowty on February 04, 2020, 01:13:00 PM
I wonder why Octopus GO doesn't come up on MSE's energy club comparison? any idea?

Because its a Time Of Use (TOU) tariff and the MSE energy club comparison (and just about all others) can only do single rate or Economy 7 tariff comparisons.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Aunat on February 04, 2020, 02:48:23 PM
Aha, well I guess that makes absolute perfect sense! Thanks for that Zarch :)


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: dan_b on February 04, 2020, 03:21:17 PM
Is there anyone on this forum NOT on Octopus?!


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: oliver90owner on February 04, 2020, 04:43:09 PM
I’m not.  Don’t use that much leccy.  Wife is not re-trainable, so doesn’t/won’t take full advantage of E7 rates - and insists on using gulps of energy in the peak times


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Aunat on February 04, 2020, 04:53:21 PM
I’m not.  Don’t use that much leccy.  Wife is not re-trainable, so ,doesn’t take advantage of E7 rates and insists on using gulps of energy in the peak times

I actually laughed out loud. Trade her in for a programmable one ;)

To be fair, that's why mine drives a diesel. She can't get her head around that you should (not must) charge the car every night, but the irony is, is that I fill it up for her.

I'm not on Octopus either, but considering the switch in the future...


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: dan_b on February 04, 2020, 05:25:42 PM
Welcome Aunat!


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: phoooby on February 05, 2020, 12:48:47 AM
I'm Octopus and I have a non programmable wife.

I set her van charger to provide a 30 min boost between 4pm and 6pm in case she needs a bit more juice later in the day. I have told her this is for only "when needed". Get in tonight, van plugged in but has loads of range so the 30 min boost is not required. The 30 min boost empties the PW pretty quick so we went back to grid at 7pm and 5.5 hrs before off peak. I think I might have to cut the boost to 15 mins or threaten to spend the summer holiday money on another Powerwall. Come March and the afternoon boost will not be required and the PV will be keeping the PW topped up during the day. A peaceful summer with less danger of blowing my house fuse pulling 60+ kWh during the 4 hour off peak times.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on February 15, 2020, 04:17:35 PM
Price Plunge!!

Get paid over 3p per unit tonight!!   CRAZY!!

https://www.energy-stats.uk/


(https://i.postimg.cc/ZW74tKMh/satur.png) (https://postimg.cc/ZW74tKMh)


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Fintray on February 15, 2020, 07:15:52 PM
Hi Zarch

Been looking at the "How much could I earn each year?" section of your website and think the amounts you could earn depending on your consumption are the wrong way round. It shows that if you use only 10% of your generation you will only earn £5.50 rather than £49.50 if you use 90% of your generation.
Great site though and even one of the guys from Octopus recommended using it!

Ian


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on February 16, 2020, 07:44:08 PM
Hi Zarch

Been looking at the "How much could I earn each year?" section of your website and think the amounts you could earn depending on your consumption are the wrong way round. It shows that if you use only 10% of your generation you will only earn £5.50 rather than £49.50 if you use 90% of your generation.
Great site though and even one of the guys from Octopus recommended using it!

Ian

Thanks Ian...... fixed that one.... not sure how I ballsed that up!  facepalm


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on February 19, 2020, 09:18:04 AM
Agile tariff is two years old today..... here's what two years worth of minimum, average and maximum pricing looks like.

(https://i.postimg.cc/FkkkwKRx/2years.png) (https://postimg.cc/FkkkwKRx)


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: TT on February 19, 2020, 06:26:05 PM
What unit prices are Octopus giving for standard tariffs?

I plugged in my details and my current provider was roughly the same - British Gas, so no point in changing and going through the usual direct debit hassle.

Is it the time of use option that’s the draw.



Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: RIT on February 19, 2020, 06:41:12 PM
Is it the time of use option that’s the draw.

Both their Agile (TOU) and Go (E7 like, but for I think 5 hours) tariffs with the proper smart meter integration are the main interests for forum members. They both allow for integration with home generation solutions and are 'fun' for those of us with spare time. Even without many of the toys others have I've seen my average energy costs drop from about 14p kWh to 9p with little risk as Octopus has no switch fee in place - so if things change I can move away in 3-4 weeks.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: TT on February 19, 2020, 07:27:20 PM
How does the price drop from 14 p to 9 p, sorry I’m not following👍
Appreciate your time in explaining this RIT


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: kdmnx on February 19, 2020, 08:15:24 PM
How does the price drop from 14 p to 9 p, sorry I’m not following👍
Appreciate your time in explaining this RIT

Go is 5p in the early hours and 13p the rest of the time. If you have a battery you can charge it with 5p electric, then power your house and charge you battery from solar in the day time and run fromt he battery in the evening.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Justme on February 19, 2020, 08:30:44 PM
What would be the easiest way to switch on a mains contactor during cheap rates?

I looked at the smart plugs & could use that to switch the contactor as its own 16amps would not be enough capacity for longevity.



Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: nowty on February 19, 2020, 10:51:34 PM
What would be the easiest way to switch on a mains contactor during cheap rates?

I looked at the smart plugs & could use that to switch the contactor as its own 16amps would not be enough capacity for longevity.


I think you have answered your own question and its exactly what I do.
I use my phone to switch on a WiFi socket, to switch on a power contactor, to turn on a supplementary 3kW battery charger during the TOU cheap period.

WiFi Socket
(https://i.postimg.cc/zfX4Zxmt/Wi-Fi-Socket.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

To turn on a Power Contactor
(https://i.postimg.cc/3RqBqB7v/Power-Contactor.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: RIT on February 19, 2020, 11:10:01 PM
How does the price drop from 14 p to 9 p, sorry I’m not following👍
Appreciate your time in explaining this RIT

Sorry I did not make myself clear the 14p rate was my old provider, while 9p is what I am currently averaging over a month on the Octopus Agile tariff.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: TT on February 20, 2020, 07:16:10 AM
Thanks RIT, appreciate the info!
I’m not looking to have a smart meter fitted yet, so will stick with existing tariff for a few years while I plod away with insulation projects and other little jobs! And keep an eye on interesting projects like we see on Navitron


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: kdmnx on February 20, 2020, 11:42:14 AM
What would be the easiest way to switch on a mains contactor during cheap rates?

I looked at the smart plugs & could use that to switch the contactor as its own 16amps would not be enough capacity for longevity.


I think you have answered your own question and its exactly what I do.
I use my phone to switch on a WiFi socket, to switch on a power contactor, to turn on a supplementary 3kW battery charger during the TOU cheap period.

WiFi Socket
(https://i.postimg.cc/zfX4Zxmt/Wi-Fi-Socket.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

To turn on a Power Contactor
(https://i.postimg.cc/3RqBqB7v/Power-Contactor.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Could you show your AUX charger and battery setup? Does the AUX charger not mess with the primary inverter?


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Justme on February 20, 2020, 01:42:29 PM

I think you have answered your own question and its exactly what I do.
I use my phone to switch on a WiFi socket, to switch on a power contactor, to turn on a supplementary 3kW battery charger during the TOU cheap period.


I was planning on the automated plug that tracks the TOU pricing on Agile.

The plug/socket costs £25.
Add a contactor that can handle switching under load & it should be a simple system.

I assume that plug uses your internet to get pricing?

Can you set your price point on it?

Or is it non configurable?


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: nowty on February 20, 2020, 05:07:27 PM
Kdmnx - Some pics of my batteries can be seen in the thread - https://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,30476.0.html

Justme - I was not aware that such an automated socket exists, mines just a dumb socket that you can set timers on, but as I get a fixed low rate time slot every night that works for me.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Justme on February 20, 2020, 06:48:44 PM
Kdmnx - Some pics of my batteries can be seen in the thread - https://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,30476.0.html

Justme - I was not aware that such an automated socket exists, mines just a dumb socket that you can set timers on, but as I get a fixed low rate time slot every night that works for me.


https://ecopush.co/



Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Justme on March 01, 2020, 08:10:02 PM


https://ecopush.co/



But cant find info on just when & how it switches.

Does it track the Agile rates or just use the Go fixed periods?

Is it wifi via my home internet or does it read the data from the mains cable?


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: nowty on March 01, 2020, 09:32:35 PM
I think Octopus have written some Applets which can be accessed from  https://ifttt.com  and can be used in conjunction to some hardware devices.

Search for "Octopus".


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: dan_b on March 02, 2020, 07:37:25 AM
Got my bill for January.

350kWh of electrons supplied. Average consumption cost of 5.6p/kWh.

I’ll take that.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Justme on March 03, 2020, 05:09:51 PM
I think Octopus have written some Applets which can be accessed from  https://ifttt.com  and can be used in conjunction to some hardware devices.

Search for "Octopus".

I have been looking at those.

Unless I am missing something they need a phone to have them running on it & the phone then pings the device rather than the device looks after itself.

I have a cheap plug coming & will play with it with just a light plugged in to see what sort of control I can get.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on March 13, 2020, 01:19:53 PM
I think Octopus have written some Applets which can be accessed from  https://ifttt.com  and can be used in conjunction to some hardware devices.

Search for "Octopus".

I have been looking at those.

Unless I am missing something they need a phone to have them running on it & the phone then pings the device rather than the device looks after itself.

I have a cheap plug coming & will play with it with just a light plugged in to see what sort of control I can get.

You don't need IFTTT ruining on a phone.  You can just create your rules and device connections etc on their website and everything works from there.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on March 13, 2020, 01:20:21 PM
My little website and twitter project has become so popular that Octopus Energy themselves got in touch to ask me all about it. 


Obviously, I was more than happy to have a geeky chat with them!!   ;D


https://octopus.energy/blog/energy-stats-uk/


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Fintray on March 13, 2020, 02:09:27 PM
Well done Mick, well deserved for all your effort.  :)


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: dan_b on March 13, 2020, 02:23:12 PM
Nice article, well done!


My little website and twitter project has become so popular that Octopus Energy themselves got in touch to ask me all about it. 


Obviously, I was more than happy to have a geeky chat with them!!   ;D


https://octopus.energy/blog/energy-stats-uk/


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Justme on March 14, 2020, 09:06:04 PM
I think Octopus have written some Applets which can be accessed from  https://ifttt.com  and can be used in conjunction to some hardware devices.

Search for "Octopus".

I have been looking at those.

Unless I am missing something they need a phone to have them running on it & the phone then pings the device rather than the device looks after itself.

I have a cheap plug coming & will play with it with just a light plugged in to see what sort of control I can get.

You don't need IFTTT ruining on a phone.  You can just create your rules and device connections etc on their website and everything works from there.

For agile you need an account to use for the rules.

You cant have an agile account until you are actually with them.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Justme on March 14, 2020, 09:26:05 PM
My little website and twitter project has become so popular that Octopus Energy themselves got in touch to ask me all about it. 


Obviously, I was more than happy to have a geeky chat with them!!   ;D


https://octopus.energy/blog/energy-stats-uk/

Is there an easy way to use your data with a smart plug & IFTTT or other process?

Rather than just avoid the peak rate I would want to set it to:-

Never buy at over Xp
Always buy at less than Yp
buy if external switch is active (fed via relay controlled by inverter, possibly via Cerbo GX) but not during peak or over Zp

Cheers


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on March 16, 2020, 09:13:10 AM
My little website and twitter project has become so popular that Octopus Energy themselves got in touch to ask me all about it. 


Obviously, I was more than happy to have a geeky chat with them!!   ;D


https://octopus.energy/blog/energy-stats-uk/

Is there an easy way to use your data with a smart plug & IFTTT or other process?

Rather than just avoid the peak rate I would want to set it to:-

Never buy at over Xp
Always buy at less than Yp
buy if external switch is active (fed via relay controlled by inverter, possibly via Cerbo GX) but not during peak or over Zp

Cheers

Yep, should be possible.

Lots of examples listed already:
https://ifttt.com/agile_octopus

Which you could then adapt and put your own devices in etc.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Justme on March 17, 2020, 02:26:54 PM
My little website and twitter project has become so popular that Octopus Energy themselves got in touch to ask me all about it. 


Obviously, I was more than happy to have a geeky chat with them!!   ;D


https://octopus.energy/blog/energy-stats-uk/

You have to have an Agile account first to use them.



Is there an easy way to use your data with a smart plug & IFTTT or other process?

Rather than just avoid the peak rate I would want to set it to:-

Never buy at over Xp
Always buy at less than Yp
buy if external switch is active (fed via relay controlled by inverter, possibly via Cerbo GX) but not during peak or over Zp

Cheers

Yep, should be possible.

Lots of examples listed already:
https://ifttt.com/agile_octopus

Which you could then adapt and put your own devices in etc.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: dan_b on March 23, 2020, 09:51:51 AM
Just a thought - now the sun is here, and those of us with SolarPV and a battery can get a decent amount of self-generation/ self-consumption, is there much point in being on Agile other than the lower standing charge?   


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Fintray on March 23, 2020, 01:58:26 PM
Well on dull days like I have today I have just put the battery on charge to get me over the higher priced peak and early evening cost electricity. Over the last month the electricity I have imported has cost an average of 6.6p/unit.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: dan_b on March 23, 2020, 04:13:49 PM
Mind you having seen tomorrow's Agile prices from midnight to 6am, it definitely seems worth it! 
Looks like wind is really coming back on strong, and combined with all that daytime solar, prices really are being kept low for extended periods.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: dan_b on March 28, 2020, 10:33:22 AM
The daytime prices on Agile today are insane - below 2.3p/kWh from 12.30 to 4pm - as low as 0.6p/kWh at 3.30pm.  In a way it's also completely useless to me as I'm generating/exporting at that point, but I guess if I put on some big draws during the 11-3pm peak solar period it won't matter if some comes in from the grid at that price.

Starting to wish my PowerVault was capable of more storage and faster charging/discharging now.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: nowty on March 28, 2020, 12:39:43 PM
And I have just noticed that during this afternoon the Octopus Outgoing export prices are higher than the Octopus Agile import prices so you could import for 15 mins, then export for 15 mins all afternoon and turn a profit. whistle


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Fintray on March 28, 2020, 12:47:57 PM
Nowty

Where do you get the outgoing prices from?

Found them on the Energy-Stats website  ::)


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Justme on March 28, 2020, 12:51:51 PM
And I have just noticed that during this afternoon the Octopus Outgoing export prices are higher than the Octopus Agile import prices so you could import for 15 mins, then export for 15 mins all afternoon and turn a profit. whistle

Even allowing for charging losses & inverting losses?


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: nowty on March 28, 2020, 01:17:14 PM
And I have just noticed that during this afternoon the Octopus Outgoing export prices are higher than the Octopus Agile import prices so you could import for 15 mins, then export for 15 mins all afternoon and turn a profit. whistle

Even allowing for charging losses & inverting losses?

Yep, less than 1p to import and more than 3p to export.

I reckon you could easily make some dodgy system using capacitors to import and export every few seconds and not even need any batteries.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: pantsmachine on March 28, 2020, 01:21:58 PM
The daytime prices on Agile today are insane - below 2.3p/kWh from 12.30 to 4pm - as low as 0.6p/kWh at 3.30pm.  In a way it's also completely useless to me as I'm generating/exporting at that point, but I guess if I put on some big draws during the 11-3pm peak solar period it won't matter if some comes in from the grid at that price.

Starting to wish my PowerVault was capable of more storage and faster charging/discharging now.

Here in overcast Grampian with literally seconds of blinding pv generation we have cooked tonights curry on our wee 2 ring induction hob, storage heater is charging, a low wattage panel heater is on, hot water tank is charging as are batteries. All until 4pm. Wonderful!


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: nowty on March 28, 2020, 01:24:11 PM
And I have just noticed that during this afternoon the Octopus Outgoing export prices are higher than the Octopus Agile import prices so you could import for 15 mins, then export for 15 mins all afternoon and turn a profit. whistle

Even allowing for charging losses & inverting losses?

Yep, less than 1p to import and more than 3p to export.

I reckon you could easily make some dodgy system using capacitors to import and export every few seconds and not even need any batteries.

OK not quite true as the Octopus Outgoing graph I was looking at does not quite align with the Agile one and the outgoing prices for this afternoon are not on there yet. facepalm


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Justme on March 28, 2020, 02:35:49 PM
And I have just noticed that during this afternoon the Octopus Outgoing export prices are higher than the Octopus Agile import prices so you could import for 15 mins, then export for 15 mins all afternoon and turn a profit. whistle

Even allowing for charging losses & inverting losses?

Yep, less than 1p to import and more than 3p to export.

I reckon you could easily make some dodgy system using capacitors to import and export every few seconds and not even need any batteries.

What you need is a neighbor also on the right tariff. ;)


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: kdmnx on March 28, 2020, 02:40:53 PM
What you need is a neighbor also on the right tariff. ;)

Remember when British Gas did that “Free Sundays” tariff? I thought about convincing a neighbour to get it...


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: dan_b on March 28, 2020, 02:48:25 PM
Well the sun has gone in, so switched strategy and currently doing a manual boost on the ImmerSUN pulling 2.7kW to heat up the hot water tank and manual charge on the PowerVault (700W, whoop whoop) to fill those both up before the 4pm peak time.

2.30-3pm at 1p/kWh
3-3.30pm at 0.69p/kWh
3.30-4pm at 1.16p/kWh.

Wonder if we'll get plunge pricing tomorrow...


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: dan_b on March 28, 2020, 06:00:02 PM
Plunge alert!


(https://i.postimg.cc/zVg8n04J/390670-E9-8-C28-48-EC-ABC2-AC49-CEA91682.png) (https://postimg.cc/zVg8n04J)


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: pantsmachine on March 28, 2020, 06:25:02 PM
Feel like a kid at Xmas,  hopefully won't burn the house down tonight. :)


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: pantsmachine on March 28, 2020, 07:37:33 PM
Also, clocks go forward tonight.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: kdmnx on March 28, 2020, 08:45:49 PM
Plunge alert!


(https://i.postimg.cc/zVg8n04J/390670-E9-8-C28-48-EC-ABC2-AC49-CEA91682.png) (https://postimg.cc/zVg8n04J)


Not seen that many negative periods before!


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: dan_b on March 29, 2020, 09:20:32 AM
I did my best to pull the watts during the plunge event last night. 
ImmerSUN, PowerVault, garden room heater, washing machine, dishwasher all on timers and I also put the Tesla on charge too.

Looks like the ImmerSUN didn’t cope with the clocks going forwards so fired up an hour late, and the Tesla didn’t switch off after the allotted time so kept charging past the plunge window!  I’d not used the timer in the car before must have set it wrong. Oh well it’s all a learning experience.  I should get a few pennies back on my account from that anyways.

Thing is I now have a full battery and instead of the forecast cloud and occasional rain it’s currently blazing sunshine out there with a strong cooling wind !  What do I do now?!

Oh the worries of modern life...
(https://i.postimg.cc/dhRWWqzB/FE3-C2186-EE75-48-B3-8016-BB13-A5765892.png) (https://postimg.cc/dhRWWqzB)


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: nowty on March 29, 2020, 09:53:38 AM
And I have just noticed that during this afternoon the Octopus Outgoing export prices are higher than the Octopus Agile import prices so you could import for 15 mins, then export for 15 mins all afternoon and turn a profit. whistle

Even allowing for charging losses & inverting losses?

Yep, less than 1p to import and more than 3p to export.

I reckon you could easily make some dodgy system using capacitors to import and export every few seconds and not even need any batteries.

OK not quite true as the Octopus Outgoing graph I was looking at does not quite align with the Agile one and the outgoing prices for this afternoon are not on there yet. facepalm

Wow, it was sort of true now that the Outgoing figures are out. At 15:00 yesterday you could import at 0.63p and export at 1.38p, in fact for most of the afternoon the export figures are higher than the import.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: dan_b on March 30, 2020, 09:46:05 AM
Got my March figures - 221kWh at 6.61p/kWh average cost, although this doesn't include the plunge event on Sunday 29th!

However, is anyone else having problems with their Agile electricity bills being blank when they're first generated? I've 3 times now had to ask Octopus to go back and re-issue the Agile part of my monthly bill as it only covered the gas element of my supply? 


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: omega1 on March 30, 2020, 11:04:18 AM
Hi Dan

I think they are definitely having problems.
I haven't had a bill (agile) of any description gas or electric since January !!!  ::)
Me thinks I need to get in touch with them.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: greentangerine on March 30, 2020, 12:05:19 PM
Same here; went live with Go at the beginning of February and no bill since. 

The 30 minute meter readings are visible on the Octopus website.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Fintray on March 30, 2020, 12:10:51 PM
I've had no problems and have just had my bill for March which gives all the details of my exports a page for each day, 44 pages in total!


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: bopman on July 03, 2020, 10:28:52 PM
You all seem to be very knowledgeable about how to get the best out of the Agile tariff... I am waiting for my smart meter install before I can switch over to it but I would just like to get some opinions on an addition I am considering for my current PV+battery setup.

I currently have 3.6kw PV on the roof and a lux powertek hybrid inverter and 4.8kwh pylontech batteries.

I have a leased Kia Soul EV and a Zappi charger so I have plenty of opportunity to make good use of Agile but I just feel like I might get caught out when the kids come home from school (assuming they ever go back!) and the mrs puts the electric oven on to cook their tea, and then the microwave and/or the electric hob too.

I'm going to set the lux to charge from the grid prior to the peak time at 16:00 for when it has not charged up enough from the PV during the day but the lux still won't have the bandwidth to cover all of that demand - unless it's a clear sunny day and the battery is full, and even then there may be a gap to fill.

Therefore, I am looking at getting an AC coupled inverter like the Sofar ME3000SP or the Solis 3.0kw 5G RAI that I believe can also be timed to charge from the grid at specified times and either get a new battery or switch one of of my Pylontech's over to that so I will have the combination of the 2 batteries/inverters to help cover the load.

My questions therefore are;
1. Will, as I hope, the AC coupled inverter kick in to discharge it's battery if it sees I am having to go to the grid to satisfy demand? So it will always try to make up the difference when the Lux can't cope?
2. If 1 is true, and I set the Lux to charge from the grid overnight, during a plunge or when topping up prior to the peak time, will the AC coupled inverter think it needs to help out and discharge it's battery into the Lux's? OR is there a way to set the AC coupled inverter to charge at the same time as a priority and ignore any demands?

Hopefully you can see what I'm trying to do and the experts among you can point out where I'm going wrong and hopefully put me right!


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: todthedog on July 04, 2020, 06:11:11 AM
Hello and welcome to the forum.
I expect tariff  experts along shortly


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: kdmnx on July 04, 2020, 08:10:49 AM
The truth is that the Octopus Agile tarrif doesn’t work for people whose lifestyle is how you describe. The reason wholesale electricity prices are so high 4-7pm is because that is when most people use loads of electricity. If your lifestyle means that no one is home between 4-7pm then you are golden.

Octopus Go is much better for people in your situation. You can still charge your car, and your batteries, and set your dishwasher etc to run during the cheap period, but you won’t get screwed during the “peak”.

Be aware that these are not usual times. There has been a cronic lack of demand for electricity due to COVID and a lot of wind/solar generation this year, this has resulted in cheaper “peaks” and longer, more frequent “plunge” periods. As things go back to “normal” it is reasonable to expect “plunges” to be shorter, shallower, and rarer, and “peaks” to hit 35p regulally.

A number of people have tried running 2x battery systems and found they don’t play nice with eachother. You catch one discharging at full whack while the other is charging at full whack. If you’re going to have a 2nd battery system I’d suggest disabling all “smart” features and just setting it to charge at night and discharge in the afternoon.



Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: pantsmachine on July 04, 2020, 08:25:51 AM
There is a 1.2 kWh discharge limit per pylontech unit. You will likely have a 2.4kWh discharge  limit. We had this and went for a 3rd battery and now 3.6kWh discharge rate. We buy 0.3 to 0.5kWh per day at the moment and that is purely down to reaction time on the control software.

No electricity bill since Feb when Agile started for us.

Are there bi directional chargers for installation at home so we can use EV as further use able home storage?


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Fintray on July 04, 2020, 09:39:12 AM

Are there bi directional chargers for installation at home so we can use EV as further use able home storage?

You could pre-order a Wallbox Quasar, only £5400 though!


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: bopman on July 04, 2020, 10:11:23 AM
The truth is that the Octopus Agile tarrif doesn’t work for people whose lifestyle is how you describe. The reason wholesale electricity prices are so high 4-7pm is because that is when most people use loads of electricity. If your lifestyle means that no one is home between 4-7pm then you are golden.

Octopus Go is much better for people in your situation. You can still charge your car, and your batteries, and set your dishwasher etc to run during the cheap period, but you won’t get screwed during the “peak”.

Be aware that these are not usual times. There has been a cronic lack of demand for electricity due to COVID and a lot of wind/solar generation this year, this has resulted in cheaper “peaks” and longer, more frequent “plunge” periods. As things go back to “normal” it is reasonable to expect “plunges” to be shorter, shallower, and rarer, and “peaks” to hit 35p regulally.

A number of people have tried running 2x battery systems and found they don’t play nice with eachother. You catch one discharging at full whack while the other is charging at full whack. If you’re going to have a 2nd battery system I’d suggest disabling all “smart” features and just setting it to charge at night and discharge in the afternoon.



Ah... yes, that does seem to be sensible advice. Perhaps I'm being too optimistic based upon the recent abundance of deep plunges and lower peak prices. It is a bit frustrating that the potential for savings is not as great with go, but I guess the possibility of getting it expensively wrong is also not as great!

If I was starting over now, I might be considering the Phocos 'any grid' inverter I only recently found out about which appears to let you share a bank of batteries among up to 9 parallel inverters but each inverter you add gives you another 3/5kw discharge depending upon the model you choose. The only function that it seems to be lacking is a way to control charging from grid at multiple specified times but there is an app, so presumably an API exists which could be tapped into to provide that functionality. Does anybody have any knowledge or experience of this inverter?


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: bopman on July 04, 2020, 10:23:48 AM

Are there bi directional chargers for installation at home so we can use EV as further use able home storage?

You could pre-order a Wallbox Quasar, only £5400 though!

It might not be too far down the road... at least if you drive a Nissan Leaf.

Ovo energy are running some trials at the moment (https://www.ovoenergy.com/electric-cars/vehicle-to-grid-charger) - see Fully Charged on youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xuleBA4Zcg).

Octopus also have something called powerloop - but it's only for Nissan Leafs (leaves?) leased through them (https://www.octopusev.com/powerloop).


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: kdmnx on July 04, 2020, 11:53:47 AM
Don’t forget you are already maxing out your batteries! Your Lux can charge/discharge a lot harder than you’re currently achieving. So I wouldn’t complain about your inverter’s charge/discharge rate just yet!


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: pantsmachine on July 04, 2020, 04:09:21 PM
Its easy to think of Agile in terms of battery storage and stay in that thought but its really meant to be about timeshifting use which you can do through switches, behavior etc. I guess you could look at it from the other end. Advantage, you give the kids a head start in education, thought, forward planning etc, explain how its better for the planet if we can not all load up the grid at the same time... Add switches, adjust lifestyle to allow for Agile. Do that a couple of times and SWMBO will get onboard and you might not have to look beyond your current discharge capabilities?


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: bopman on July 04, 2020, 11:43:06 PM
Don’t forget you are already maxing out your batteries! Your Lux can charge/discharge a lot harder than you’re currently achieving. So I wouldn’t complain about your inverter’s charge/discharge rate just yet!
Its easy to think of Agile in terms of battery storage and stay in that thought but its really meant to be about timeshifting use which you can do through switches, behavior etc. I guess you could look at it from the other end. Advantage, you give the kids a head start in education, thought, forward planning etc, explain how its better for the planet if we can not all load up the grid at the same time... Add switches, adjust lifestyle to allow for Agile. Do that a couple of times and SWMBO will get onboard and you might not have to look beyond your current discharge capabilities?

Thanks for your wise words both...I think I might try Go for maybe a year and see if we as a family can change some of our habits to gauge how well we would cope with Agile. Hopefully by then things will have returned to some sort of normality too which will give us a better picture of what to expect in terms of pricing through the year.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Womble-Free on July 05, 2020, 09:59:25 AM
In my experience, a year in, leaving it for a year will not work. For example, over the past 12 months, I have switched from GO to Agile; Agile to GO Faster and now back on Agile. Even with restricted use of an EV(CV19 shielding), I can get my average cost per kWh down to 7.5 to 8p. This is without PVSolar etc. I had a 6.5kWp array and Powerwall 2 on order which we had to cancel as a result of CV19. The maths were dodgy even before the fall in electricity prices: today they make no sense whatsoever.

I should add that it is easy with an App 'Octopus Energy Watchdog' to compare GO with Agile. The App will price usage as if you were on Agile.

A couple of other things. Octopus is struggling to make SMETS2 30 minute ToU tariffs work. The problem is that they occasionally do not get a day's data from the DCC. If this happens, then automatic billing stops. There are ways that Octopus can recover the missing data and, in fairness to them, the problem is not as acute as it was last year.

To make Agile work, you need family buy in. For example, we had our main meal at lunchtime yesterday where it was about 5p/kWh compared to 22p/kWh later in the day. My wife now uses a slow cooker a lot more than she did. Last night, I turned off our gas HW cylinder reheating and got up at 6.30am to turn on the immersion heater. The immersion will go back on at lunchtime when electricity prices are negative.

I should also add that if you have gas (smart or non smart meter) you should look at Tracker Gas. Prices vary each day: today for example is 1.8p/kWh and 15.09p/day SC for my region. I estimate that I am saving 20 to 25% compared to Octopus' fixed gas deal.

Finally, to make these offers work, you have to be a proactive consumer which is why many people have produced 'tools' to guess when electricity prices might be low, and to monitor usage and bills.