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General Renewable Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: Zarch on May 23, 2019, 09:21:55 AM



Title: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on May 23, 2019, 09:21:55 AM
The Octopus Energy Agile tariff has really piqued my interest in time of use tariffs using Smart Meters.

Whilst you could grab bits and pieces of historical data from Octopus about 'Agile' it was a bit limited. ie it didn't show all DNO areas and wasn't complete back to Feb 2018.

So i've written a few scripts and pulled all the data in to one place.
  • All 30 minute data from all 14 DNOs going to back to the first day of the Agile tariff (Feb 19th 2018)..
  • The data also updates at 5pm each day after Octopus have released their next day's figures

I've then layered Grafana graphs on top so you can visualise the data yourself on my new website.

Plus, there is a Google Spreadsheet with all the historical data on.

https://www.energy-stats.uk/

I would be interested in people's thoughts on the project.

What could be done better?
What else would people like to see in terms of graphs?
Is this stuff useful?
Do you think the tariff could work for you?

I'm hoping to expand the project into their GO tariff as well as their new Agile Export figures too.

Cheers.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile Tariff analysis website
Post by: Tinbum on May 23, 2019, 09:49:54 AM
Looks really good. As a very low user and on 3 phase I dont think it would work for me though.

I've always been interested to know how energy prices vary around the country.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on May 23, 2019, 09:52:09 AM
Looks really good. As a very low user and on 3 phase I dont think it would work for me though.

I've always been interested to know how energy prices vary around the country.

Thank you.   Yeah, why does London always have the cheapest pricing and poor old Northern Scotland seems to kop for the highest pricing?


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile Tariff analysis website
Post by: azps on May 23, 2019, 10:01:09 AM
Thank you.   Yeah, why does London always have the cheapest pricing and poor old Northern Scotland seems to kop for the highest pricing?

Brilliant, thank you, that's a lovely resource.

How do Octopus Agile customers interact with the variable pricing? How much advanced notice do they get, and in what form? Mobile app notifications or something?

re regional pricing - high density of customers. Unit cost of the grid per customer is very cheap in London. And very very high in rural Scotland.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on May 23, 2019, 10:12:22 AM
I'm with Octopus, but not on Agile yet....... awaiting smart meter install.

They have an app and you can also get the figures logging in to your account as well as using the API.

And you can connect to their tariff and use IFTTT too to control your devices.
https://octopus.energy/ifttt/
https://ifttt.com/search/query/octopus

They provide all of tomorrows pricing at around 5pm the previous day, so you can make plans if there is really cheap/high pricing.

I really think time of use tariffs are the future when combined with smart devices and things like IFTTT.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on May 23, 2019, 10:15:20 AM
My next project is to add Variable / Agile Solar Export pricing history to the website..... which is Octopus next big thing.

https://octopus.energy/blog/outgoing/


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile Tariff analysis website
Post by: Stig on May 23, 2019, 10:20:11 AM
Interesting to see that weekend prices are much the same as weekday prices, I'd have expected to see a marked difference as other providers have occasionally offered free electricity on Saturdays etc.


As another low user the standing charge makes it more expensive for me (c.f. Ebico) especially as I don't have storage heaters or EV but do have PV.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile Tariff analysis website
Post by: Tinbum on May 23, 2019, 10:38:37 AM
Looks really good. As a very low user and on 3 phase I dont think it would work for me though.

I've always been interested to know how energy prices vary around the country.

Thank you.   Yeah, why does London always have the cheapest pricing and poor old Northern Scotland seems to kop for the highest pricing?

Thankfully I'm in Yorkshire. ;D


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile Tariff analysis website
Post by: dan_b on May 23, 2019, 11:39:46 AM
This is interesting, will take a look. I'm an Octopus E7 customer, will see if the Agile tariff makes any sense for me.



Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile Tariff analysis website
Post by: jtp10000 on May 24, 2019, 10:03:09 AM
Awesome work thank you. Would be great to see how it changes across the seasons as you get more data.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on May 24, 2019, 04:08:12 PM
Awesome work thank you. Would be great to see how it changes across the seasons as you get more data.

I've got all the data going back to Feb 2018, but there is only so much of it you can show on one page.

Although you can see the spread through months by clicking on your region and then looking at the third graph. 
This shows minimum, average and maximum prices for each day of the past 365 days.

Hope this helps.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on May 27, 2019, 11:33:59 AM
Just had a look at the most recent data.

Interesting, overnight last night Agile had a low of 3.11p per unit. It was no higher than 6p from midnight through to 6am, then 7p through the most of today.

I think alongside a small battery to get you over the 4pm to 7pm (20p to 23p per unit today) period if solar can't cover it, this could be a decent option for many people?

Its just about finding the right combo for your circumstances that will allow the best savings (tariff, solar, battery, ev, immersion, usage habits!)


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile Tariff analysis website
Post by: azps on May 27, 2019, 12:06:03 PM
Just had a look at the most recent data.

Interesting, overnight last night Agile had a low of 3.11p per unit. It was no higher than 6p from midnight through to 6am, then 7p through the most of today.

Yup, it's an unusual day. Very low demand (19 GW overnight, which is about as low as it gets), with very high winds, so very low wholesale prices. And now we've got low-ish demand (31 GW), and a decent showing from both wind and PV (about 5.7 GW each) and plenty of cheap imports too.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile Tariff analysis website
Post by: samss on May 27, 2019, 08:37:35 PM
Looks really good. As a very low user and on 3 phase I dont think it would work for me though.

Yeah they ignored me after promising to switch, then decided they couldn't because i am a 3phase customer. It's a shame, i would just about have been happy to have 2 phases disconnected to use Agile, but they stopped responding to my emails!



Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on May 28, 2019, 08:23:03 AM
Just had a look at the most recent data.

Interesting, overnight last night Agile had a low of 3.11p per unit. It was no higher than 6p from midnight through to 6am, then 7p through the most of today.

Yup, it's an unusual day. Very low demand (19 GW overnight, which is about as low as it gets), with very high winds, so very low wholesale prices. And now we've got low-ish demand (31 GW), and a decent showing from both wind and PV (about 5.7 GW each) and plenty of cheap imports too.

Brilliant data, thanks.

I bet there is some correlation between 'how' its generating, where its coming from and the actual demand around their pricing.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile Tariff analysis website
Post by: jtp10000 on May 28, 2019, 10:22:44 AM
Just had a look at the most recent data.

Interesting, overnight last night Agile had a low of 3.11p per unit. It was no higher than 6p from midnight through to 6am, then 7p through the most of today.

I think alongside a small battery to get you over the 4pm to 7pm (20p to 23p per unit today) period if solar can't cover it, this could be a decent option for many people?

Its just about finding the right combo for your circumstances that will allow the best savings (tariff, solar, battery, ev, immersion, usage habits!)

Interesting point. Of course if you approach like this it totally changes the maths of getting a battery.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on May 28, 2019, 01:13:06 PM
I've added a simple single page showing what the Go tariff looks like in graph form as well as the current "out of the 5p four hour slot" pricing across the UK.

https://www.energy-stats.uk/octopus-go-tariff/


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on June 02, 2019, 08:44:15 AM
Electricity was as low at 2.1p overnight on Agile.....   exhappy:

(https://i.postimg.cc/5NGFBWZx/Agile.png)

https://www.energy-stats.uk/


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on June 07, 2019, 10:59:08 AM
Hi all,

I'm pleased to announce an update to my little home-brew website; Go versus Agile

This was actually a feature request from a user so I was happy to oblige.

There are two new graphs for each of the 14 UK regions.

1. Go versus Agile (00:30 to 04:30 only) for the last 365 days
2. Last 7 days of full daily pricing from both tariffs

https://www.energy-stats.uk/octopus-go-versus-agile/ (https://www.energy-stats.uk/octopus-go-versus-agile/)

I think if you have an EV then Go seems to win hands down with its fixed 5p for 4 hours each and every day.

If you have Solar PV and/or maybe a battery that can get you over the 4pm to 7pm period then I think Agile could well be the cheaper option?

But everyone has different usage patterns and configurations, so ultimately the decision is up to you.

These 'time of use' tariffs in conjunction with smart meters are surely the future of electricity provision?

Hope you are finding this data useful?  Please let me know your thoughts etc.

Hoping to add some more features in the coming weeks.  Next up I want to look at the new Outgoing / Export tariffs.

Cheers.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on June 19, 2019, 01:00:19 PM
New Website Update - Octopus Outgoing / Export tariff historical and current data.
This data is just what those Solar PV owners have been waiting for.

https://www.energy-stats.uk/

Discussion points and my notes/thoughts for Octopus Outgoing Export Tariffs

- Their fixed 5.5p per kWh fixed outgoing is a 2.2% increase over current Feed in Tariff (FIT) based 5.38p.

- These Outgoing tariffs only replace the 'export' element of the FIT.  Your generation payments will still come from your registered FIT supplier.

- Both Fixed and Agile Outgoing are "actual" export rather than "deemed" 50% as per FIT.

- You are likely better to stay put on deemed 50% if your export less than 50% of what you generate. ie, if you have immersion diversion, EV or other high daytime usage.

- If you export more than 50% of what you generate the maths suggest you'd be better off on an 'actual' export tariff. The could well be the case with larger Solar installs.

- Octopus add credit to your bill each day for your exports. Assuming you spend more on "inbound" energy than you earn on "outbound" they'll aim to set direct debits at a level consistent with the estimated annual net amount. If you're in credit you can withdraw at will online. (From Octopus CEO)

- In comparison current FIT payments are usually every 3 months.

- You need to be on an Octopus import tariff to have one of their export tariffs.

- It will be very interesting to see the Agile Outgoing price through the winter months.  The outgoing tariffs only started on 19th May 2019, so we have little historical data to analyse.

- Whilst its easy to claim 11p per unit and above between 4pm and 7pm during the summer because of late sunset times, its going to be impossible through the winter months with 4pm sunsets.

- Moving to Octopus requires a 12 month commitment for FIT payments.  This is across the board, you can only move FIT supplier once a year.

- But this does not apply to 'export' supplier.  You can move when you want.  Plus, you can freely move between Fixed and Agile Outgoing / Export plans once with Octopus.

- So maybe there is opportunity to crunch the numbers to see if Fixed or Agile are better suited at different times of the year?

- Will the Octopus Fixed Outgoing tariff increase with inflation as per the current FIT rewards?

- The FAQ says there is nothing stopping you charging a battery using Solar during the day for free then selling back that energy between 4pm and 7pm for 11p+.

https://octopus.energy/outgoing/
https://octopus.energy/blog/outgoing/

Find all the Outgoing current/historical stats and pricing at https://www.energy-stats.uk/

If you have any ideas of what else you'd like to see please let me know.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: JohnS on June 19, 2019, 01:43:43 PM
These comments are no longer relevant as the above post has been edited to correct the error

New Website Update - Octopus Outgoing / Export tariff historical and current data.
This data is just what those Solar PV owners have been waiting for.

https://www.energy-stats.uk/

Discussion points and my notes/thoughts for Octopus Outgoing Export Tariffs


- Both Fixed and Agile Outgoing are "actual" export rather than "deemed" 50% as per FIT.

- You are likely better to stay put on deemed 50% if your export more than 50% of what you generate. ie, if you have immersion diversion, EV or other high daytime usage.

- If you use less than 50% of want you generate the maths suggest you'd be better off on an 'actual' export tariff.  The could well be the case with larger Solar installs.


If you have any ideas of what else you'd like to see please let me know.

Your analysis is confusing me.

First scenario - if your export more than 50% of what you generate - surely it is better to be paid per unit of export rather than just for 50%

Second scenario - If you use less than 50% of want what you generate - this is the same as the first scenario.  If you use less than 50%, you export more that 50%.

Or is my brain not working?

Also, does the 5.5p payment also apply to those on the older 3p plus inflation export tariff?


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on June 19, 2019, 03:02:21 PM
Thanks John.  I've updated the text.

I knew what I wanted to say, just got a little confused typing it.....  banghead:

Hope the update is a bit clearer?

With regard the older export tariffs, I've contacted Octopus to find out..... will let you know.

April 2010 to 30 July 2012: 3.82p
On or after 1 August 2012: 5.38p



Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: JohnS on June 19, 2019, 03:44:14 PM
Zach
It makes sense now.
John


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on June 19, 2019, 08:21:22 PM
Also, does the 5.5p payment also apply to those on the older 3p plus inflation export tariff?


John,

I asked Octopus the following..... hope this helps.

"Another question about Outgoing tariffs. There are two FIT export tariffs dependant on install date. 

April 2010 to 30 July 2012: 3.82p
On or after 1 August 2012: 5.38p

Can pre-July 2012 installs join Outgoing? Do they get 5.5p per kWh / Agile pricing?"

Their reply was:

Ok, those are the FiT rates you’ve quoted there. Outgoing has just the two rates. You can switch to Outgoing (either 5.5 or Agile version) irrespective of which FiT rate you have. Hope that helps - but do drop us a DM / message if you have any questions & we can go through everything.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: JohnS on June 19, 2019, 08:31:07 PM
Thanks.
It looks a great deal for pre 2012 installs


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on June 29, 2019, 08:26:17 PM
More crazy Agile prices overnight.  Down as low at 1.26p per unit and below 8p through most of tomorrow. :)

https://www.energy-stats.uk/octopus-agile-yorkshire/


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on July 12, 2019, 08:54:32 AM
Website update:

As Octopus Energy outgoing tariff (ie the FIT export replacement) tariff is now 2 months old i'm now showing 60 days data from the Agile version of the tariff.

Hopefully more info for those considering moving away from FIT export payments or for new installs needing someone to take their excess generation.

Full details over on the site.  https://www.energy-stats.uk


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: jtp10000 on July 12, 2019, 02:44:57 PM
Interesting to see that the overnight tariff is rarely near the 5p Octopus Go Level.
It would be great to do a calc to see how cheap a house battery would need to be to make a 5 year payback on Agility. The simple approach might be a battery that would only need to bridge those expensive 2.5 hours in the evening and then the rest of the time you are on 7p.kwh ish. I should try. I can't believe it is that far off before it is a no brainer.
BUT then of course how quickly will the prices start evening out if lots of people get batteries, killing your 5 year payback. Also the utilities would be mad, after all the SMETS installations & data, to not start providing substantial incentives that discourage people charging their cars at 6pm.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Philip R on July 12, 2019, 11:45:04 PM
jtp,
As more smets meter data is analysed, the power companies will be able to dis incentivise those whom charge their cars at evening peak times. i.e. Switch them off using the meter internal contactor. In my previous employment, the factory where I worked, had some very large loads which if turned on or used at the wrong time, would lead to the business being charged a punitive rate for electricity for the next 3 months. A very strong incentive. That is why the diesel generators were fired up. Expensive, but cheaper than the punitive tariff.
Philip R


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: russ_fae_fyvie on July 21, 2019, 07:39:37 PM
As we are about to move into the new house I have just switched to Octopus from SSE and once on I believe the Smart Meter follows, been interesting reading the above (the bits I understood!) but what I want to try to do is progress to Agile (if possible) and program my Powerwall 2 to charge up (if needed) at certain cheap times.

At the moment I am just getting to grips with the PV and Tesla setup, I do know that in the last week 98% of the power used in the house is 'Self Generated', I know we aren't in yet but the ASHP is working along with the UFH and generally using 200 w which seems good. I know things will change once the Winter comes along so that's why I'm looking to get cheap rate charging on the battery and from what I can see above its a good possibility.

Still watching with interest!


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Fintray on July 21, 2019, 09:19:24 PM
Hi Russ

Just waiting for my smart meter install to get on to the agile outgoing tariff, I'll let you know how I get on.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on July 22, 2019, 09:58:32 AM
As we are about to move into the new house I have just switched to Octopus from SSE and once on I believe the Smart Meter follows, been interesting reading the above (the bits I understood!) but what I want to try to do is progress to Agile (if possible) and program my Powerwall 2 to charge up (if needed) at certain cheap times.

At the moment I am just getting to grips with the PV and Tesla setup, I do know that in the last week 98% of the power used in the house is 'Self Generated', I know we aren't in yet but the ASHP is working along with the UFH and generally using 200 w which seems good. I know things will change once the Winter comes along so that's why I'm looking to get cheap rate charging on the battery and from what I can see above its a good possibility.

Still watching with interest!
Do keep us updated.

I think the key to making best use of these tariffs is the hardware/battery manufacturers software being up to the job.  ie charge when free (solar) or low price (Agile/Go) then export back when best price (agile outgoing).   And hopefully do all this in the background with little input.


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on August 13, 2019, 01:04:25 PM
As their Export tariff (Outgoing) is coming up to 3 months old I've updated the site to show up to 90 days data now.

https://www.energy-stats.uk/octopus-agile-outgoing-export/


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: Zarch on August 16, 2019, 06:18:29 PM
Agile pricing down as low at 1.68p per unit at 7am.

They'll be paying us to use it soon!!  ;D

https://www.energy-stats.uk/octopus-agile-yorkshire/


Title: Re: My Octopus Energy Agile & GO Tariff analysis website
Post by: brackwell on August 17, 2019, 08:49:19 AM
Wait till winter comes.