Navitron Renewable Energy and Sustainability Forum

Announcements & News => Media Watch => Topic started by: dan_b on June 10, 2019, 01:43:27 PM



Title: No coal again, but...
Post by: dan_b on June 10, 2019, 01:43:27 PM
instead, the UK is generating 200MW with an oil or OCGT plant? Not seen that online for a long time.  There's a full half of our nuclear capacity offline which won't be helping.




(https://i.postimg.cc/bGNHLkFH/oil.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bGNHLkFH)


Title: Re: No coal again, but...
Post by: nowty on June 10, 2019, 02:23:08 PM
Gridwatch is showing OCGT running at 0.29GW presently.

Poor Solar and Wind today, low Nuclear and zero Coal.

There is still headroom from CCGT but maybe the OCGT's need running once in a while for maintenance ?


Title: Re: No coal again, but...
Post by: Nickel2 on June 10, 2019, 03:13:49 PM
Maybe parallel redundancy? When you get close to the maximum happy continuous rating, you run up another source of power to cover a peak in the event of ccgt failure.


Title: Re: No coal again, but...
Post by: oliver90owner on June 10, 2019, 03:20:19 PM
Anyone know why nuclear has dropped so much?  Possible flood risk for the next couple of days or refuelling them at the same time (poor planning?)?


Title: Re: No coal again, but...
Post by: dan_b on June 10, 2019, 03:33:47 PM
Looks like there’s a lot of them offline for refuelling and/or planned maintenance-  I guess they’re scheduled for period of lowest demand?


Title: Re: No coal again, but...
Post by: Moxi on June 10, 2019, 03:37:58 PM
EDF's UK fleet status can be found here:

https://www.edfenergy.com/energy/power-station/daily-statuses

6 reactors of for statutory inspections, 1 off for refuelling off load, 6 on nominal load * not sure about Hinkley B unit 4, HB unit 3 is raising power after statutory outage, Heysham stage 2 unit 8 low load refuelling. *Heysham stage 1 unit 2 at reduced load to manage fuel temperatures.

*When did Hinkley B units drop to 477MW as nominal output?  Their sister station is Hartlepool and they are approx. 590MW.

*I understood both Heysham stage 1 units were locked at reduced temperatures now until they cease operation due to corrosion of the coolant baffles caused by  CO2 at normal operational temperature but I wasn't aware of fuel temperature issues although they do suffer quite a bit of "ratchetting" on the AGR fuel pins at certain stations.

sorry I don't know how to post a live link - still beyond my IT skills

Moxi

oh it worked  wackoold


Title: Re: No coal again, but...
Post by: azps on June 10, 2019, 05:15:27 PM
EDF's UK fleet status can be found here:

https://www.edfenergy.com/energy/power-station/daily-statuses

6 reactors of for statutory inspections

If I've understood correctly, Hunterston B (2 reactors) is a lot more serious than just statutory inspections. The cracks have grown so numerous that the reactors aren't safe, under the current regulatory definition.

EDF's reaction, naturally, is to ask for that definition to be changed. To date, they've exerted strong regulatory capture, so they may well get their way.


Title: Re: No coal again, but...
Post by: RIT on June 10, 2019, 06:15:52 PM
EDF's UK fleet status can be found here:

https://www.edfenergy.com/energy/power-station/daily-statuses

6 reactors of for statutory inspections

If I've understood correctly, Hunterston B (2 reactors) is a lot more serious than just statutory inspections. The cracks have grown so numerous that the reactors aren't safe, under the current regulatory definition.

EDF's reaction, naturally, is to ask for that definition to be changed. To date, they've exerted strong regulatory capture, so they may well get their way.

This issue started to be reported yesterday with headlines such as

Quote
WARNING Glasgow and Edinburgh ‘could be contaminated with radiation and evacuated’ if cracked Hunterston B nuclear reactors are reopened

     https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/4341340/glasgow-edinburgh-radiation-contamination-risk-hunterston-b-reactors-reopened/

and

Quote
Chernobyl 2.0 fears as nuclear expert warns against re-opening cracked UK reactor

     https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/chernobyl-20-fears-nuclear-expert-16479884


Title: Re: No coal again, but...
Post by: M on June 11, 2019, 08:04:04 AM
EDF's UK fleet status can be found here:

https://www.edfenergy.com/energy/power-station/daily-statuses

6 reactors of for statutory inspections

If I've understood correctly, Hunterston B (2 reactors) is a lot more serious than just statutory inspections. The cracks have grown so numerous that the reactors aren't safe, under the current regulatory definition.

EDF's reaction, naturally, is to ask for that definition to be changed. To date, they've exerted strong regulatory capture, so they may well get their way.

This is one of the issues that often gets ignored when the long lifetime and 24/7/365 generation of nuclear is praised - they still need reviewing and often significant additional new investment as they get older, in order for them to operate 30yrs, 40yrs etc.

Can HPC operate for 60yrs, probably. Will it do so without significant maintenance, probably not.


Title: Re: No coal again, but...
Post by: azps on June 11, 2019, 08:07:47 AM
This is one of the issues that often gets ignored when the long lifetime and 24/7/365 generation of nuclear is praised - they still need reviewing and often significant additional new investment as they get older, in order for them to operate 30yrs, 40yrs etc.

Can HPC operate for 60yrs, probably. Will it do so without significant maintenance, probably not.

If it starts operating, and survives through to 35 years old, it may not last much past that. EDF know the design is a dud, and with high uncertainty for some of its components. So after the CfD life is over, it may not be worth doing significant maintenance and upgrades on it.


Title: Re: No coal again, but...
Post by: M on June 11, 2019, 08:30:32 AM
This is one of the issues that often gets ignored when the long lifetime and 24/7/365 generation of nuclear is praised - they still need reviewing and often significant additional new investment as they get older, in order for them to operate 30yrs, 40yrs etc.

Can HPC operate for 60yrs, probably. Will it do so without significant maintenance, probably not.

If it starts operating, and survives through to 35 years old, it may not last much past that. EDF know the design is a dud, and with high uncertainty for some of its components. So after the CfD life is over, it may not be worth doing significant maintenance and upgrades on it.

I'll stick my neck out and say that after the CfD ends (~2065), the cost of generation for HPC probably won't be low enough to find any buyers. I'd guess that in real terms RE and probably RE + storage, will be £30-40/MWh or less*, and the cost of maintaining even a fully amortized HPC may be more.

Even demand side PV may be down at these costs with 35% efficient silicon/perovskite PV (9kWp taking up the same roof space as 4kWp of 'old' 250Wp panels).

Quick future ad - "Do you fancy adding a small pergola to your home? Then why not cover it with 4.5kWp of PV while you are at?"


Title: Re: No coal again, but...
Post by: Stig on June 11, 2019, 09:46:42 AM
It's OK, the new Sizewell reactor will be 'cheaper' than Hinkley as we'll all chip in with the funding:

from https://www.ipswichstar.co.uk/news/edf-new-funding-plans-for-sizewell-c-1-6098792 (https://www.ipswichstar.co.uk/news/edf-new-funding-plans-for-sizewell-c-1-6098792)

Quote
Energy giant EDF is set to put forward a new plan to help finance Sizewell C which would see UK energy customers make contributions to help reduce interest costs on the project.

The plans, which would see every energy customer pay around £6 a year, could help reduce the overall price of the project to £16billion, rather than the £20bn set aside for Sizewell C's sister site in Hinkley.

(heard on BBC radio news this morning, this was the only article I could find about it)


Title: Re: No coal again, but...
Post by: Pile-o-stone on June 11, 2019, 10:00:41 AM
"Around 370 hairline fractures were found, which the BBC reports equates to about one in every 10 bricks in the reactor core.

EDF Energy said these have now grown to an average of 2mm wide."

That's OK, Grand Designs presenter Kevin McCloud once said on his program that you only need to worry about the cracks you can fit your hand in.

Phew.


Title: Re: No coal again, but...
Post by: Philip R on June 11, 2019, 10:07:11 AM
All the oil burning steam plants have gone. Only a bit of ocgt.
Hartlepool and heysham1 reactors cannot fuel on load.just before refuelling, load is lost due to the burnup state of the fuel.once shutdown, lots of fuel syringers added and some radial shuffling done to enhance the flux profile and bur up when on load.
When returned to power, takes a while to form enough fission product poison to reduce fuel reactivity. Until this happens, control rods still quite well inserted in top of core. Hence reduced output. As the fission products form. They increase local neutron absorption and the rods withdraw, power goes up.
All the other plants bar SZB refuel at part load,thus maintaining better burnup of the fuel.

The headline cracked reactor infers to me that the pressure vessel is compromised, which it is not. The graphite blocks have big stresses and some cracked. The concern is fuell channel and control rod channel integrity, ie.a bit not falling out and blocking it.
Philip R.


Title: Re: No coal again, but...
Post by: djs63 on June 11, 2019, 11:16:42 AM
Where are the cracks in the Hunterston reactor. The EDF site says that they are checking the graphite. Does this mean that this is where the cracks are? Not in the pressure containment vessel?

If the the new reactors have a life of whatever to keep the bean counters happy, someone still has to decommission, ie cope with the radioactive waste and equipment.

This morning it seems that EDF is going to charge their customers £6 surcharge to fund nuclear (BBC), per year?


Title: Re: No coal again, but...
Post by: Moxi on June 11, 2019, 11:22:06 AM

A good enough reason not to buy from EDF I would think, if the politicians don't want to listen then as consumers if we vote with our money business may?


Title: Re: No coal again, but...
Post by: dan_b on June 11, 2019, 11:50:29 AM
The cracks are not in the pressure vessel but in the graphite bricks in and around the fuel control rods etc.


Title: Re: No coal again, but...
Post by: Tinbum on June 19, 2019, 09:03:30 AM
Anybody know why daily demand suddenly dropped yesterday at midday?

OCGT seems to be running daily now.


Title: Re: No coal again, but...
Post by: JohnS on June 19, 2019, 12:25:32 PM
Also on Gridwatch PV is currently zero but is 4GW on the Sheffield uni site.


Title: Re: No coal again, but...
Post by: Philip R on June 19, 2019, 02:25:11 PM
Some data transfer or processing error is leading to these erroneous figures.

If some large LOL (Loss of load) had occurred, I am sure we would have heard about it on the news, but we did not.

The same with the solar generation. Data been lost in the ether.

Philip R