Navitron Renewable Energy and Sustainability Forum

Energy/Electricity Storage and Use/Grid Connection => Off-Grid, Batteries & Inverters => Topic started by: pantsmachine on December 31, 2019, 02:12:20 PM



Title: Octopus Agile
Post by: pantsmachine on December 31, 2019, 02:12:20 PM
Just signed up for Agile. Quite a satisfying moment when the Penny dropped re our batteries/Agile potential..... Ahah!

Happy New Year! :)


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: dan_b on December 31, 2019, 02:44:43 PM
Enjoy, and good luck. I've become unhealthily obsessed with daily electricity pricing and trying to manage my Powervault to have sufficient charge to cover the 4-7pm peak. I've yet to receive a full month's bill so don't know if it's any cheaper or not for me yet, but we'll find out!


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: pantsmachine on January 01, 2020, 09:56:20 AM
Thanks Dan, you have given me good advice these last 18 months. The batteries are just sitting there at this time of year doing heehaw and the money is already out so seems a no brainer to try Agile.  The system has been in for 18 months now and we have seen a 25% roi based on not installing, staying put, no power use decrease and change in fuel prices.

Good luck with breaking the obsession, hard to change back once you've moved on!

I think i'll set my charge controller from grid to batteries for 1am to 3 am and 2pm until 4pm. That should bridge the high Peak gap. I'll also switch timers on the fridge freezers too to have them  off across peak. Any other suggestions much appreciated? Happy New Year Lads & Lassies! :)


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: scobo on January 01, 2020, 07:33:36 PM
Just had batteries installed a few weeks ago and switched to Octopus last month too.
Waiting for a smart meter installation next week to get onto one of the TOU tariffs.
Was thinking of trying Go first though as it sounds a whole lot easier to manage charging. Just set a timer for 12.30am to 4.30am and your done.
We also have an EV now too so overnight charging is preferable.
Apparently you can switch between Agile and Go at will and it only takes a day or so to change over so might try them both to see which works out best.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: dan_b on January 01, 2020, 11:50:50 PM
I went from Go to Agile same day on a Sunday- did it via Twitter!



Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: dan_b on January 01, 2020, 11:51:32 PM
Very kind of you to say so.  :angel:

Thanks Dan, you have given me good advice these last 18 months. The batteries are just sitting there at this time of year doing heehaw and the money is already out so seems a no brainer to try Agile.  The system has been in for 18 months now and we have seen a 25% roi based on not installing, staying put, no power use decrease and change in fuel prices.

Good luck with breaking the obsession, hard to change back once you've moved on!

I think i'll set my charge controller from grid to batteries for 1am to 3 am and 2pm until 4pm. That should bridge the high Peak gap. I'll also switch timers on the fridge freezers too to have them  off across peak. Any other suggestions much appreciated? Happy New Year Lads & Lassies! :)


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: Scoop on January 03, 2020, 02:04:01 PM
How do you get on to Agile? Every time I put my details in it just says we will put you on Plus, its confusing the hell out of me!! Im currently with Npower 15p unit and 17p standing charge, is there any tips on who i can call?



Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: pantsmachine on January 03, 2020, 02:17:52 PM
I think you need to be with them 1st on another tarrif then apply for Agile. I think....


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: dan_b on January 03, 2020, 02:32:47 PM
How do you get on to Agile? Every time I put my details in it just says we will put you on Plus, its confusing the hell out of me!! Im currently with Npower 15p unit and 17p standing charge, is there any tips on who i can call?



Sign up for a regular tariff with them first, like Go.  Tou also need Smart Meters. Then you can switch to Agile once your'e signed up. Use a referral code to get £50 of free credit when you switch.  You could use mine, or one from the many other Octopus subscribers here!  https://share.octopus.energy/teal-leaf-367


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: pantsmachine on January 04, 2020, 08:58:40 PM
Just returned from a job in Norway and it turns out that setting my batteries to draw from grid across a single window of time and to a low battery threshold within a single window is simple enough thru PV master app. Any of you guys have experience with Goodwe and know how to generate a second set of parameters within the 24hr window? I can work with the single time slot allocation but would rather it was double or upwards?

 


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: pantsmachine on January 06, 2020, 03:01:11 PM
A firmware update via the wi-fi & company support rep has given me another set of slots for battery charge/discharge, four in total now. Also reset the time as unit was running 2 hours ahead. All I need now is 3rd Party SMET2 gadge to make contact for fitting meter.....  tumble:

As I am on Octopus tracker there is no downside to playing about with charge/discharge times in this new wrinkle of charging from grid. At the moment I am charging at a rate of 2kw per hour. I could almost convince myself a 3rd battery is needed...


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: scobo on January 06, 2020, 04:36:02 PM
All I need now is 3rd Party SMET2 gadge to make contact for fitting meter.....  tumble:

If you don't have any luck, get in touch with Octopus and tell them the only reason you switched is because you have an EV.
If you've waited more than 2 weeks, they'll escalate it and get you an appointment within a few days.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: pantsmachine on January 06, 2020, 09:19:55 PM
Thank you Scobo, I am in fact looking into importing a EV from Japan. I will bear that in mind for further comms, cheers.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: pantsmachine on January 08, 2020, 02:52:57 PM
A quick question for you guys, how limited is your charge controller software?

 I ask as I should be seeing a max discharge rate from batteries of 2.4 kw yet I often see the charge controller pulling in from the grid a part of the load even when demand in house is not high (and certainly not over 2.4kw). I also see the controller exporting to grid (400W for example) even though all power in batteries has been bought in from grid at this time of year. I would expect the charge controller software to be able to control the battery charge/house load to prioritse not buying from grid when battery charge available or not exporting to grid when PV is inactive? Am I being naive? Is this not just IF BUT THEN simple? :)

Any input welcome.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: Joereynolds89 on January 08, 2020, 03:40:12 PM
Both the Sofar i previously had, and the Lux Power AC i now have are very responsive (nearly no export/import unnecessarily.

What charge controller are you using?

The Sofar was 3000w rated, and pretty much did 3000w as expected.
The AC Lux is 3600w rated. but really only does 3400w.

A quick question for you guys, how limited is your charge controller software?

 I ask as I should be seeing a max discharge rate from batteries of 2.4 kw yet I often see the charge controller pulling in from the grid a part of the load even when demand in house is not high (and certainly not over 2.4kw). I also see the controller exporting to grid (400W for example) even though all power in batteries has been bought in from grid at this time of year. I would expect the charge controller software to be able to control the battery charge/house load to prioritse not buying from grid when battery charge available or not exporting to grid when PV is inactive? Am I being naive? Is this not just IF BUT THEN simple? :)

Any input welcome.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: pantsmachine on January 08, 2020, 04:35:18 PM
Hi Joey, Its a Goodwe EW3600SBP hybrid.

https://www.goodwe.com/Public/Uploads/sersups/S-BP%20USER%20MANUAL.pdf

I have sent in the question on both points to UK support for Goodwe. Its been great so far but now we are looking to use batteries within the Agile framework its not gonna cut it like this.

The photo below shows a measly 400w being discharged when demand in house is 2.2kw or so.


(https://i.postimg.cc/HjtgZ1Cb/20200108-173109-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HjtgZ1Cb)


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: scobo on January 08, 2020, 04:44:29 PM
We also have the Lux ac controller, it does a pretty good job but there is a small amount of import when it's discharging.
It doesn't actually show up on the app/web interface but my Current Cost Optismart meter shows about 40-60watts being imported.
Apparently this is the case with most battery systems, even Tesla, due to limitations of the ct clamps accuracy.
Not a massive issue with the Lux at such a small amount though.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: pantsmachine on January 08, 2020, 06:37:06 PM
Thanks Scobo, that's more weight to my argument on their being a fault with system.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: scobo on January 08, 2020, 06:43:57 PM
Thanks Scobo, that's more weight to my argument on their being a fault with system.

I would say so if your seeing these sort of figures for any length of time.
If it's only for a couple of seconds then it's maybe just the controller not reacting quickly enough to changes in your house load.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: RIT on January 08, 2020, 08:16:35 PM

The photo below shows a measly 400w being discharged when demand in house is 2.2kw or so.


What is causing the load when you end up with this mis-match?


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: pantsmachine on January 08, 2020, 09:08:29 PM
Hi Guys, This one has been finger trouble and lack of understanding on my behalf, enjoyed the ahah moment though!

A couple of days ago I had a remote upgrade of the charge controller software.

This gave me 4 slots for manual battery charging with times of my choice, rated power and charge or discharge choice too.

I duely set a 24 hr cycle of charge/discharge/charge/discharge.

I then realised this evening that the 400 Watts being consistently discharged was in fact 10% of my battery capacity and the excess within that 400 watts not used by house was going the only way it could, out into the grid. When demand from house was over 400 watt the grid was called on.

I removed the discharge profiles from slots 2&4 as the controller was only doing what i told it to. Discharging 10% of capacity within the timeframe set....by me  :hysteria

I have now used two slots to set up charge profiles (4 hours to 100%) twice per day and with no discharge profile the batteries and charge controller just go on auto outwith the charging times. SO simple in hindsight! :)

SMET2 guys come on then!  tumble:


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: scobo on January 08, 2020, 09:20:20 PM

SMET2 guys come on then!  tumble:

Ah, yes. About that.  facepalm
We had ours fitted yesterday but the guy said the commissioning system at Octopus is currently down so someone else would need to come back at a later date to finish it.
So basically, we currently have a smart meter which is just as dumb as the old one !  banghead:


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: pantsmachine on January 08, 2020, 09:27:20 PM
I have heard it can be a rocky road. I hope it's completed for you soon.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: vantheman on January 09, 2020, 08:15:36 AM
Don't expect it to be fixed anytime soon . We are in an identical position to you, Our Smart Meter was installed by Octopus in early
November but commissioning system down .We had a second visit a fortnight later with fitter saying weak comms signal problem .
Since then despite numerous emails and phone calls nothing, Octopus keep telling us to await a phone call from the installation people
but of course nothing.
Complained directly to Octopus CEO, received a reply saying problem with 3rd party contractors .Since on their website Octopus claim they have
set up an in house team of installers I would have thought they should be getting on top of this problem by now..
The whole process has proved  very frustrating and when we asked for our existing dumb system to be reinstated they claim it is not possible.
.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: scobo on January 09, 2020, 08:56:16 AM

Complained directly to Octopus CEO, received a reply saying problem with 3rd party contractors .
That's bôllox, the guy who installed our meter said the problem is the Octopus commisioning system.
They're going to start losing customers if they don't fix this soon especially since your not tied into a contract with them and can leave at any time with no penalties.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: vantheman on January 09, 2020, 10:45:07 AM
We live in an isoated location and know that comms could be a probllem,

Checked with Octopus before signing up that we were covered and were assured yes.

When fitter arrived to install the S meter asked him he was going to check the comms signal before starting,

Said no ,it was shown on the map to be in the signal radius and in any event he had not got the necessary equipment .
to do this.

My advice to anyone rural contemplating S meter is to insist on a signal test before fitting,

Once it is fitted they won't reinstate the old equipment


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: dan_b on January 09, 2020, 11:21:42 AM
The CEO of Octopus - Greg Jackson -  is on Twitter and responds to a lot of queries and comments directly - might be worth raising it with him on that public platform if you're having issues.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: scobo on January 09, 2020, 06:03:06 PM
Ok, 3 phone calls later and I'm slightly further forward.
Rang Octopus who said as far as they were aware, the commissioning system was only down Monday/Tuesday and the installer would call me to re-book.
We only had our electric meter changed on Tuesday as there was an issue with an earth wire at the gas meter which I've now sorted. This seems to have caused some confusion in our case.
So I rang SMS, the installer, who told me they were waiting for Octopus to supply them with an MPR for our gas meter ????
Dug out an old gas bill which has the MPR number, rang SMS back and we're now booked in for another visit on the 23rd to have it all finished properly.
Fingers crossed.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: pantsmachine on January 09, 2020, 08:22:57 PM
Wow, serious left hand not knowing what the right is doing. My expectations are now quite small. :)

Best of fortune to you, I'm sure it will all play out well.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: pantsmachine on January 24, 2020, 09:01:53 AM
New meter going in 31st Jan, the battery charge/discharge timings are working well, battery stack seeing us across the heavy costing hours in morning and evening. I think this is going to work out well as long as the install is trouble free, Oh Did I just jinx it? :)

Also installed a 100w solar panel & MPPT charge controller along with a 110ah leiaure battery on our Bongo campervan. Brilliant fun!


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: scobo on January 24, 2020, 09:37:42 AM
Had a guy back yesterday and we now have working smart meters, finally.
Should hopefully be switching to the Go tariff in the next few days but will be keeping an eye on Agile prices also.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: bleem2k on January 24, 2020, 10:24:40 AM
Provided you don't use tons of leccy during the peak period, it looks like Agile is quite competitive. Still waiting for my SMETS2 meter to be installed but I've been graphing my current energy usage against the real time costs and switching to agile would save me £5.73 over their supergreen tariff and £3.21 over GO (past 7 days, little to no change in our energy habits on our side)

(https://i.postimg.cc/5jCdr5R0/1-HS-Energy-Dashboard-Sev-One-Data-Insight.png) (https://postimg.cc/5jCdr5R0)

EDIT: Sorry the preview is so small, but click for bigness.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: pantsmachine on January 24, 2020, 01:15:21 PM
Bleem2k,  do you have storage or just adjusting habits? Smart graph! I expect around a 25% cut in annual elec costs which will be added onto the working out of roi on the system as a whole.

Glad to read you progressed Scobo.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: JohnS on January 24, 2020, 05:54:15 PM
Provided you don't use tons of leccy during the peak period, it looks like Agile is quite competitive. Still waiting for my SMETS2 meter to be installed but I've been graphing my current energy usage against the real time costs and switching to agile would save me £5.73 over their supergreen tariff and £3.21 over GO (past 7 days, little to no change in our energy habits on our side)

(https://i.postimg.cc/5jCdr5R0/1-HS-Energy-Dashboard-Sev-One-Data-Insight.png) (https://postimg.cc/5jCdr5R0)

EDIT: Sorry the preview is so small, but click for bigness.


I guess that the savings are weekly from the period of your graph.  Could you confirm?


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: bleem2k on January 25, 2020, 12:56:49 PM
@pantsmachine - No storage, EV to charge overnight sometimes but no major changes in behaviour. We do delay the dishwasher now until early morning. I'd like to look at storage next as we also have PV which can export on the good days.

@JohnS - yep, 1 week on that graph, only just started calculating the prices in 30min chunks but now collects automatically so can build up a picture over the month etc.

I should add, work from home, younger family so daytime usage is probably a bit higher than a 9-5 type household. This also potentially helps spread our usage about a bit rather than all pile in a 5.30-6pm and whack everything on.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: pantsmachine on January 25, 2020, 04:41:33 PM
Hmm,  can the EV battery be used or a percentage of it to power the house? That would be cool.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: scobo on January 25, 2020, 04:47:55 PM
Hmm,  can the EV battery be used or a percentage of it to power the house? That would be cool.

Yes, V2G (vehicle to grid) or V2H (vehicle to home) but neither have taken off yet in the uk in a big way.
There are a few trials ongoing though ......

https://www.ovoenergy.com/electric-cars/vehicle-to-grid-charger

https://octopus.energy/blog/vehicle-to-grid/


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: pantsmachine on January 25, 2020, 07:40:00 PM
That's good to know, thank you. I'll bear it in mind for arrival of Leaf or similar.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: RIT on January 25, 2020, 08:05:04 PM
That's good to know, thank you. I'll bear it in mind for arrival of Leaf or similar.

There is one thing you need to take into account for any future plans. The car industry now has 2 charge port standards. CHAdeMO as found on  Japanese cars like the Leaf and CCS which is now the common option for European, Korean and USA manufactures. The problem is that while the CHAdeMO standard has included VtG and VtH features (VtX) for the last 5-6 years, CCS does not yet do so and the current road map talks about 2025 before a standard let alone support by cars and grid attached devices.

All in all a standards turf war between regional car manufactures is delaying the concept of VtX systems and we all get stuck on the sidelines watching.

During all this messing about Tesla seems happy to just sell Powerwalls as well as cars :)


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: dan_b on January 25, 2020, 08:22:41 PM
Interestingly, the design of the Tesla connector for the S & X allowed for V2G, but they never completed it because of the rather obvious problem that the free supercharging for life incentive for the model S and X that was in place for many years would have caused.  Owners would then have had a reason to drive to a Supercharger, get a full battery charge for free, drive home, hook up and get paid for discharging the whole lot back into the grid.  Rinse and repeat, kerching!

I tend to agree that in Europe, ChaDeMo is on the way out. Leaf and Outlander PHEV I think are the two cars still sold in Europe with that connection standard, and it's available as an option alongside CCS on the London Electric Taxi, the rest are CCS, including in particular the Tesla Model 3.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: scobo on January 26, 2020, 08:56:48 AM

Glad to read you progressed Scobo.

Just got an email confirming our switch to Octopus Go is complete so that wasn't too long a wait considering our meters were only commisioned on Thursday.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: dan_b on January 31, 2020, 04:59:13 PM
So got my first full itemised bill for my first 49 days on Agile.  I used 580kWh of electricity at an overall average of 7.7p/kWh once all the half-hourly rates are calculated.  Add to that the standing charge of 20p/day (lower than Go) and VAT it's come in at £57. Which considering that's over the darkest period of the year when the solar is doing almost nothing is really rather good.

I'm getting more used to the routine of checking the daily rate and then setting washing machine & dishwasher accordingly, and also have found a pattern of charging/discharging on the Powervault that seems to be good enough to leave sufficient juice in the battery to cover the all important 4-7pm peak as much as possible.  So we'll carry on on Agile and look forward to the brighter months.



Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: pantsmachine on January 31, 2020, 10:05:58 PM
Meters changed out today, E meter paired and working, gas and in house display not, as heavy comms issues for the engineer. Software hanging during pairing and on hold to tech support for a full 30 minutes for each call. At least the one that matters is working! We'll see what next week brings. 45 minutes to change both meters then 90 minutes on the phone, laugh? I nearly cared. :)


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: scobo on February 01, 2020, 02:38:03 AM
Meters changed out today, E meter paired and working, gas and in house display not, as heavy comms issues for the engineer. Software hanging during pairing and on hold to tech support for a full 30 minutes for each call. At least the one that matters is working! We'll see what next week brings. 45 minutes to change both meters then 90 minutes on the phone, laugh? I nearly cared. :)

Hang in there. Nearly everyone has problems but they seem to get there in the end. It's a very poor system for something that's meant to be "smart".
One thing they don't tell you is that the in home displays are not capable of showing a TOU tariff such as Go or Agile correctly. They only display the cost in peak rate. And it's still not showing the correct tariff for our gas.
Then again, so long as the bill is correct, who really cares ?? :)


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: Womble-Free on February 01, 2020, 08:39:54 AM
Meters changed out today, E meter paired and working, gas and in house display not, as heavy comms issues for the engineer. Software hanging during pairing and on hold to tech support for a full 30 minutes for each call. At least the one that matters is working! We'll see what next week brings. 45 minutes to change both meters then 90 minutes on the phone, laugh? I nearly cared. :)

You are fortunate. My SMETS2 installation in July took over 4 1/2 hrs. The IHD still gives a daily LED display with frequent periods showing Loss of Connection or Missing Data. The distance from the actual meter to the IHD is just over a Metre in a modern home.

The electricity meter is working as it should but my gas meter has stopped recording usage following a firmware update. The supplier is in deep discussions with L and G.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: pantsmachine on February 01, 2020, 09:19:52 AM
Womblefree - A work in progress then... Or ill thought out shambolic joke. Can't even drop it at the door of early adopter syndrome. Could be worse, could be HS2!

Once the meters are functioning well i'll be looking to double the battery stack as that will allow a higher discharge rate. with 2 batteries I am limited to a discharge rate of 2.4kwh, I have seen a PDF somewhere (can't find it now) and i'm pretty sure if I go to 4 batteries the discharge rate rises to 4.8kwh which is more in line with normal house use for us.

 Beyond that maybe one more wafer thin solar array but that will take me into the land of DNO approval. Its all good fun!

Edit- Found it.
https://www.victronenergy.com/live/battery_compatibility:pylontech_phantom


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: phoooby on February 01, 2020, 01:15:49 PM
Well my SMETS2 was fitted by Scottish power and then I switched to Octopus which turned out to be a good plan as Octopus had a backlog at the time. All seemed to be working o.k. up until Nov when they e-mailed to say there had been a mistake with the billing. They proceeded to credit all the payments I had made and then re-bill them all again in November which worked marginally in their favour by about a tenner. I wasnt that bothered. Anyhow, since all that shenanigans, I have had a very small bill in early December for about £28 of electricity and nothing since. I got a credit refund of £155 in December as I had built up a balance of £355 on a monthly DD of £200. Since early December I have not received a bill so I am now £600 in credit !. I e-mailed them the other day to find out what was going on but not heard back yet. I am not convinced that the smart meters are working correctly. The house display shows I use about 100-150kWh of gas per day which I would not be surprised with during the winter. The Octopus web site shows a normal usage pattern (ie a bit here and a bit there in line wit the CH timings) with c. 8-16kWh per day of gas use for a few days. There are then days when there is no use at all for most of the day and then ridiculous figures of 33000kWh or 162000kWh used in two 30 min billing periods !.

Cannot make any sense of it at the moment. The electricity seems correct on the web site but the house display shows peak rate only for all usage which seems to be a common defect. The gas meter element seems to be non functioning at present which may be why they are not billing me. I might put in a manual meter reading and see if that prompts them to send a bill. 


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: Womble-Free on February 01, 2020, 01:46:27 PM
Well my SMETS2 was fitted by Scottish power and then I switched to Octopus which turned out to be a good plan as Octopus had a backlog at the time. All seemed to be working o.k. up until Nov when they e-mailed to say there had been a mistake with the billing. They proceeded to credit all the payments I had made and then re-bill them all again in November which worked marginally in their favour by about a tenner. I wasnt that bothered. Anyhow, since all that shenanigans, I have had a very small bill in early December for about £28 of electricity and nothing since. I got a credit refund of £155 in December as I had built up a balance of £355 on a monthly DD of £200. Since early December I have not received a bill so I am now £600 in credit !. I e-mailed them the other day to find out what was going on but not heard back yet. I am not convinced that the smart meters are working correctly. The house display shows I use about 100-150kWh of gas per day which I would not be surprised with during the winter. The Octopus web site shows a normal usage pattern (ie a bit here and a bit there in line wit the CH timings) with c. 8-16kWh per day of gas use for a few days. There are then days when there is no use at all for most of the day and then ridiculous figures of 33000kWh or 162000kWh used in two 30 min billing periods !.

Cannot make any sense of it at the moment. The electricity seems correct on the web site but the house display shows peak rate only for all usage which seems to be a common defect. The gas meter element seems to be non functioning at present which may be why they are not billing me. I might put in a manual meter reading and see if that prompts them to send a bill. 

Octopus has had some problems with missing data from the DCC. In December, they were trialling a new API that allows them to recover data that has been lost. Like most suppliers (or do I have been told) they are struggling with the complexity of SMETS2 security; third-party integrators and GDPR. In sum, suppliers with SMETS2 meters no longer have access to all the pieces of the jigsaw.

The electricity meter was not designed for ToU tariffs such as Agile or GO Faster. There is no real-time updating of the 30 minute tariff on the meter and the IHD is a direct read from the meter. This is why both Agile and Go Faster now use a generic tariff rate with usage accruing on the R1 index only: billing seems to be reconciled when usage data is received by Octopus. No comfort to you I know, but my gas and electricity billing is now up to date.

Have you checked on the comms hub that your gas meter has been paired correctly?


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: nowty on February 01, 2020, 02:34:44 PM
This is why both Agile and Go Faster now use a generic tariff rate with usage accruing on the R1 index only: billing seems to be reconciled when usage data is received by Octopus.

Hmmmmm, I am on Go Faster (currently 20:30 to 01:30) but I thought my R2 register was still switching in during the standard hours of the Go tariff, i.e. 00:30 to 04:30. At least I was sure it was a day or two after I started the Go Faster trial 3 weeks ago. I will have to stay up tonight to see if its still switching or staying all on R1.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: dan_b on February 01, 2020, 04:25:23 PM
What's the lower tariff rate you've got for the Go Faster? 


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: nowty on February 01, 2020, 06:50:37 PM
What's the lower tariff rate you've got for the Go Faster? 

5.5p / kWh for 5 hours 20:30 to 01:30


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: Womble-Free on February 01, 2020, 07:38:40 PM
This is why both Agile and Go Faster now use a generic tariff rate with usage accruing on the R1 index only: billing seems to be reconciled when usage data is received by Octopus.

Hmmmmm, I am on Go Faster (currently 20:30 to 01:30) but I thought my R2 register was still switching in during the standard hours of the Go tariff, i.e. 00:30 to 04:30. At least I was sure it was a day or two after I started the Go Faster trial 3 weeks ago. I will have to stay up tonight to see if its still switching or staying all on R1.


Mine is firmly on R1 but I did switch to Go Faster from Agile. Interestingly, my first Go Faster bill does not show any meter readings only the two tariffs and consumption.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: pantsmachine on February 03, 2020, 06:09:06 PM
Quite a pleasant surprise, going onto Agile tonight at Midnight. House screen and gas meter pairing to follow.  :cross


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: scobo on February 17, 2020, 09:11:23 AM
Hold the phone, our IHD has suddenly started showing our costs accurately, including the off peak period !   :o
I was lead to believe IHDs were incapable of calculating TOU tariffs correctly and just showed the peak rate but I charged our Pylontech batteries last night with 3kwh during the Octopus Go period and we've used an additional 0.26kwh this morning and the IHD is showing our total cost for today so far as £.018 (3kwh @ £0.05 + 0.26kwh @ £0.14)
I think Octopus have done something to our meter remotely as it now shows figures under both TOU 1 and TOU 2. I emailed them as we haven't been billed for January yet and they said they weren't getting readings for the Go period.
Happy days !  :)


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: scobo on February 29, 2020, 05:16:10 AM
Anyone here with batteries on Agile and if so, what price are you averaging per unit ?
Just had our bill after our first full month on Go and we averaged 5.99p per unit.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: Caesium on February 29, 2020, 11:50:07 AM
Just got my first statement on Agile. It's not quite a full month, I switched over on the 3rd and the statement is until the 23rd. I used 277.6kWh @ 2.39p/kWh (before VAT)

However, 2.39p is the best I expect to see in quite a long while. It's particularly skewed by the pricing on the morning of the 16th, when pricing went negative for 4 hours straight. During this time, Octopus paid me about £1 to use 45kWh.

I also have 4kW of panels, and so far in February I've generated 206kWh - accordingly I can be very selective about when I charge the batteries and use the absolute lowest rates each night. I don't think I've imported *any* energy that cost more than around 7p in February.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: nowty on February 29, 2020, 12:06:32 PM
Anyone here with batteries on Agile and if so, what price are you averaging per unit ?
Just had our bill after our first full month on Go and we averaged 5.99p per unit.

I am on Octopus "Go Faster" (5 hrs @ 5.5p/kWh from 20:30)

I have just received my first bill covering about 7 weeks and my average is 5.55p per unit (inc vat).


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: scobo on February 29, 2020, 01:16:30 PM
Just got my first statement on Agile. It's not quite a full month, I switched over on the 3rd and the statement is until the 23rd. I used 277.6kWh @ 2.39p/kWh (before VAT)

However, 2.39p is the best I expect to see in quite a long while. It's particularly skewed by the pricing on the morning of the 16th, when pricing went negative for 4 hours straight. During this time, Octopus paid me about £1 to use 45kWh.

I also have 4kW of panels, and so far in February I've generated 206kWh - accordingly I can be very selective about when I charge the batteries and use the absolute lowest rates each night. I don't think I've imported *any* energy that cost more than around 7p in February.

Nice !
Will probably try Agile once they incorporate Agile price tracking into the Zappi charger.
That combined with the TOU script for the Lux controller will be pretty sweet.
Got a slightly better deal on gas the other day too. Exclusive Octopus 12M Fixed, 2.39p a unit and 17.85p standing charge.



Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: dan_b on February 29, 2020, 05:06:37 PM
My first full month on Agile, with my 4kWh Powervault, saw my average price come in at 7.71p/kWh for the 550kWh I used/timeshifted.
Not got my February statement through yet.

Worth noting that the standing charge on Agile is 5p/day less than Go.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: RIT on February 29, 2020, 07:55:19 PM
Got a slightly better deal on gas the other day too. Exclusive Octopus 12M Fixed, 2.39p a unit and 17.85p standing charge.

How did you get the lower gas rate?


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: scobo on February 29, 2020, 07:59:23 PM
Got a slightly better deal on gas the other day too. Exclusive Octopus 12M Fixed, 2.39p a unit and 17.85p standing charge.

How did you get the lower gas rate?

Just emailed them and requested it.
You can choose any gas tariff they offer and combine it with Go or Agile. You don't need to stick with the standard gas tariff.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: RIT on February 29, 2020, 08:22:01 PM
Got a slightly better deal on gas the other day too. Exclusive Octopus 12M Fixed, 2.39p a unit and 17.85p standing charge.

How did you get the lower gas rate?

Just emailed them and requested it.
You can choose any gas tariff they offer and combine it with Go or Agile. You don't need to stick with the standard gas tariff.

I'm aware of that, but where do they offer such a low rate?


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: scobo on February 29, 2020, 08:24:59 PM

I'm aware of that, but where do they offer such a low rate?

https://octopus.energy/tariffs/


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: RIT on February 29, 2020, 08:29:57 PM
Thanks, I guess they are making small variations to gas prices based on location as the best I can see is 2.48p/kWh.



Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: pantsmachine on March 04, 2020, 01:39:39 AM
2.16p pkwh gas in the north.

I am currently offshore Egypt so viewing system remotely. Bought a 3rd battery which will allow an increase of discharge rate to 3.6kw. Also allow more variance in how much I charge at night and pre 4-7pm window of pain. Noticing that solar has increased to around 8kwh per day and too much of that is being dumped into hot water tank.

Will change battery charge timings when batt 3 installed next week on my return to base. All good so far and enjoying Agile.
Cheers, p.s retiring after this job, oil industry bothers me now.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: scobo on March 04, 2020, 07:07:20 AM
Agile prices seem to be increasing again in our area, probably due to less wind power now the storms have past.
It's 34p at 6pm tonight and only been below 5p a couple of nights for a few hours lately so I think I'll stick with Go until next autumn/winter.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: kdmnx on March 04, 2020, 07:34:45 AM
Agile prices seem to be increasing again in our area, probably due to less wind power now the storms have past.
It's 34p at 6pm tonight and only been below 5p a couple of nights for a few hours lately so I think I'll stick with Go until next autumn/winter.

It is the standing charge that gets you on GO. However the majority of days “go” gives you cheaper overnight electric than “agile”, with no 4-7 peak to contend with, and you can set-and-forget all of your timers.

I like the idea of “agile” and who wouldn’t want negative pricing. But it doesn’t make sense when you think about it.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: azps on March 04, 2020, 07:36:27 AM
I like the idea of “agile” and who wouldn’t want negative pricing. But it doesn’t make sense when you think about it.

Really? Why not?


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: scobo on March 04, 2020, 07:43:37 AM


It is the standing charge that gets you on GO. However the majority of days “go” gives you cheaper overnight electric than “agile”, with no 4-7 peak to contend with, and you can set-and-forget all of your timers.


The difference is only 4p a day so £14 a year.
Go still works out better for us at the moment. We averaged 5.99p last month.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: kdmnx on March 04, 2020, 10:42:32 AM
I like the idea of “agile” and who wouldn’t want negative pricing. But it doesn’t make sense when you think about it.

Really? Why not?

For the reasons listed in my answer!
  • Most days you get cheaper overnight power on "go"
  • There is no early evening peak on "go"
  • On "go" you can set-and-forget all your timers


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: dan_b on March 04, 2020, 10:47:33 AM
It depends.  I was on Go for a bit, but with my Powervault, I could only recharge 2.8kWh back into the battery at the lower rate, which then didn't have a big enough impact on the main day rate, at least in the darker months.  Agile is a bit more flexible (ha ha).    Mind you with Agile I have also had quite a few nights where it's made sense to use the timed boost function on my ImmerSUN to get some very cheap hot water - so that's been useful too.

Maybe Go Faster could work for me, I might try that if I get bored of the more hands-on management that Agile requires with my current hardware.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: kdmnx on March 04, 2020, 12:07:12 PM
It depends.  I was on Go for a bit, but with my Powervault, I could only recharge 2.8kWh back into the battery at the lower rate, which then didn't have a big enough impact on the main day rate, at least in the darker months.  Agile is a bit more flexible (ha ha).    Mind you with Agile I have also had quite a few nights where it's made sense to use the timed boost function on my ImmerSUN to get some very cheap hot water - so that's been useful too.

Maybe Go Faster could work for me, I might try that if I get bored of the more hands-on management that Agile requires with my current hardware.

What is the rate of charge for your Powervault? I'm looking to upgrade from 2x to 5x PylonTech batteries (11kWh usable power) before the winter, I'll be able to charge them from empty to full in c. 3hrs!



Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: greentangerine on March 04, 2020, 12:21:40 PM
I've been on Go now for almost a month and the four hours cheap rate has been sufficient on most days to get my batteries back up to 100% from whatever capacity remaining they were at when it kicks in at 00:30.

If they are discharged to 20% (which is as low as my inverter will let them go), then they'll get back up to 75% by 04:30.



Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: dan_b on March 04, 2020, 02:05:37 PM
The max charge rate on my Powervault is only 700W - so in 4 hours it can only suck in 2.8kWh.  It'll discharge at 1100W max - not sure why the two are different.
It's their old washing-machine styled Powervault with 4kWh of lead acid batteries, so not an all singing all dancing lithium unit.

I have half wondered if someone on here fancies seeing if it can be bodged to have a few more batteries jammed into the chassis...


It depends.  I was on Go for a bit, but with my Powervault, I could only recharge 2.8kWh back into the battery at the lower rate, which then didn't have a big enough impact on the main day rate, at least in the darker months.  Agile is a bit more flexible (ha ha).    Mind you with Agile I have also had quite a few nights where it's made sense to use the timed boost function on my ImmerSUN to get some very cheap hot water - so that's been useful too.

Maybe Go Faster could work for me, I might try that if I get bored of the more hands-on management that Agile requires with my current hardware.

What is the rate of charge for your Powervault? I'm looking to upgrade from 2x to 5x PylonTech batteries (11kWh usable power) before the winter, I'll be able to charge them from empty to full in c. 3hrs!




Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: kdmnx on March 04, 2020, 03:10:18 PM
The max charge rate on my Powervault is only 700W - so in 4 hours it can only suck in 2.8kWh.  It'll discharge at 1100W max - not sure why the two are different.
It's their old washing-machine styled Powervault with 4kWh of lead acid batteries, so not an all singing all dancing lithium unit.

I have half wondered if someone on here fancies seeing if it can be bodged to have a few more batteries jammed into the chassis...


It depends.  I was on Go for a bit, but with my Powervault, I could only recharge 2.8kWh back into the battery at the lower rate, which then didn't have a big enough impact on the main day rate, at least in the darker months.  Agile is a bit more flexible (ha ha).    Mind you with Agile I have also had quite a few nights where it's made sense to use the timed boost function on my ImmerSUN to get some very cheap hot water - so that's been useful too.

Maybe Go Faster could work for me, I might try that if I get bored of the more hands-on management that Agile requires with my current hardware.

What is the rate of charge for your Powervault? I'm looking to upgrade from 2x to 5x PylonTech batteries (11kWh usable power) before the winter, I'll be able to charge them from empty to full in c. 3hrs!



Lead-acid has a poor round-trip efficiency. Modern LiFePO4 batteries can get c.95% round-trip efficiency.

You can always add more batteries but your 700W charge rate is the deal-breaker. Modern systems charge/discharge at 3600W typically. The 700W in 1100W out isn’t bad for storing excess solar, or even economy 7 grid power. But for the short periods of cheap power on “go” and even more so on “agile” you really need to be chugging back the power. Some people are sucking in 20kW!


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: azps on March 04, 2020, 06:57:16 PM
I like the idea of “agile” and who wouldn’t want negative pricing. But it doesn’t make sense when you think about it.

Really? Why not?

For the reasons listed in my answer!
  • Most days you get cheaper overnight power on "go"
  • There is no early evening peak on "go"
  • On "go" you can set-and-forget all your timers


The lack of early evening peak on "go" is a good reason why "go" doesn't make sense to me.

Agile seems to make more sense to me than pretty much any other tariff on the market, but then I can't help but see these things from a system perspective more than from my perspective as a single residential customer. Go seems like a tariff from the early 1980s - it's basically a rebadged, slimmed-down Economy 7, right? Maybe it's useful as a transition tariff - maybe we don't have enough smart appliances yet, so customers are still tied to clumsy timers rather than smart triggers fed by dynamic tariff.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: kdmnx on March 04, 2020, 08:04:31 PM
I like the idea of “agile” and who wouldn’t want negative pricing. But it doesn’t make sense when you think about it.

Really? Why not?

For the reasons listed in my answer!
  • Most days you get cheaper overnight power on "go"
  • There is no early evening peak on "go"
  • On "go" you can set-and-forget all your timers


The lack of early evening peak on "go" is a good reason why "go" doesn't make sense to me.

Agile seems to make more sense to me than pretty much any other tariff on the market, but then I can't help but see these things from a system perspective more than from my perspective as a single residential customer. Go seems like a tariff from the early 1980s - it's basically a rebadged, slimmed-down Economy 7, right? Maybe it's useful as a transition tariff - maybe we don't have enough smart appliances yet, so customers are still tied to clumsy timers rather than smart triggers fed by dynamic tariff.

I get all that. I’m attracted to agile too for the same reasons. However the reality is that “go” is cheaper and more convenient.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: dan_b on March 04, 2020, 10:53:51 PM
All of that is true but it’s the battery system I have and unlike a few years ago I don’t have spare cash flow to chuck at something better so I need to just make the most of what I’ve got.



Quote

Lead-acid has a poor round-trip efficiency. Modern LiFePO4 batteries can get c.95% round-trip efficiency.

You can always add more batteries but your 700W charge rate is the deal-breaker. Modern systems charge/discharge at 3600W typically. The 700W in 1100W out isn’t bad for storing excess solar, or even economy 7 grid power. But for the short periods of cheap power on “go” and even more so on “agile” you really need to be chugging back the power. Some people are sucking in 20kW!


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: pantsmachine on March 05, 2020, 09:10:52 AM
I like the idea of “agile” and who wouldn’t want negative pricing. But it doesn’t make sense when you think about it.

Really? Why not?

For the reasons listed in my answer!
  • Most days you get cheaper overnight power on "go"
  • There is no early evening peak on "go"
  • On "go" you can set-and-forget all your timers


The lack of early evening peak on "go" is a good reason why "go" doesn't make sense to me.

Agile seems to make more sense to me than pretty much any other tariff on the market, but then I can't help but see these things from a system perspective more than from my perspective as a single residential customer. Go seems like a tariff from the early 1980s - it's basically a rebadged, slimmed-down Economy 7, right? Maybe it's useful as a transition tariff - maybe we don't have enough smart appliances yet, so customers are still tied to clumsy timers rather than smart triggers fed by dynamic tariff.

I get all that. I’m attracted to agile too for the same reasons. However the reality is that “go” is cheaper and more convenient.

Time will tell. I am having a 3 month experiment with agile and will see how it plays out before deciding which is preferable. Dan, it's all a learning curve! I picked up my 3rd battery for 610 on ebay 2nd hand. Each incremental step in the RE process leads to a mini enlightenment. :)


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: scobo on March 05, 2020, 09:19:54 AM
I think that if you have batteries then Go is the way to, er, go.   whistle
Certainly in our area at least, it seems to be cheaper during the Go period the vast majority of the time.



Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: nowty on March 05, 2020, 09:42:01 AM
I also think that GO is generally better for me, but it might be better for me to switch to AGILE in order to combine it with Octopus OUTGOING. But as I am currently on the GO FASTER trial and getting a credit of £5 per month I am going to wait till that's over before trying something else.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: dan_b on March 05, 2020, 09:45:45 AM
Indeed, if you're not learning you're not growing, or something.
I am increasingly wondering about whether it might be possible to hack/bodge more batteries into my PowerVault though.  Anyone got any experience with that? Anyone interested in helping me do it?!

Time will tell. I am having a 3 month experiment with agile and will see how it plays out before deciding which is preferable. Dan, it's all a learning curve! I picked up my 3rd battery for 610 on ebay 2nd hand. Each incremental step in the RE process leads to a mini enlightenment. :)


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: billi on March 05, 2020, 11:12:41 AM
Quote
Lead-acid has a poor round-trip efficiency. Modern LiFePO4 batteries can get c.95% round-trip efficiency.

Kdmnx ,

 that is only partial true  and a welcome and  common misinformation
Each situation is different , so  i just can"t  just say , that a 500 $  per kWh stored   Li-something  is more efficient than a 50$ lead acid one

In the end its the cost per kWh  one can squeeze  out of a storage idea , and sofar  i have not seen  Li-named products to  convince me of their efficiency

Billi






Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: kdmnx on March 05, 2020, 11:37:19 AM
Indeed, if you're not learning you're not growing, or something.
I am increasingly wondering about whether it might be possible to hack/bodge more batteries into my PowerVault though.  Anyone got any experience with that? Anyone interested in helping me do it?!

Time will tell. I am having a 3 month experiment with agile and will see how it plays out before deciding which is preferable. Dan, it's all a learning curve! I picked up my 3rd battery for 610 on ebay 2nd hand. Each incremental step in the RE process leads to a mini enlightenment. :)

The "hacking more batteries in" part is easy and fun! I've done it with UPSs for years.

Step 1: Figure out how your batteries are arranged. Typically they will be in 24V or 48V strings. Higher-end setups tend to be bespoke voltages such as 60V or 84V. I have no idea how your PowerVault is equipped.

Step 2: Aquire a MUCH bigger battery bank in the same voltage. Traction batteries are by far the best. They're always for sale on Ebay. Difficult to transport though. OR you can buy 12V "Solar" or "Marine" batteries and build your own battery bank.

A typical "700W" UPS might have 2x 7A 12V batteries. Hacking in 2x 110Ah batteries is a very common mod. You can hack in as many pairs of of 110Ah (or whatever) batteries as you like. In this UPS example, the charger is usually very weedy and can take several days (or even weeks!) to recover from an outage.

Your low charge/discharge rate makes this project easier because it makes the cables required much more sensible. I can see your setup being good for storing solar generated during the day to cover your overnight "baseload" or even from a sunny day to use on a dull day.  



Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: dan_b on March 05, 2020, 01:42:32 PM
I might take the lid off and take some photos of the set-up - just for research purposes of course


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: kdmnx on March 05, 2020, 04:21:44 PM
I might take the lid off and take some photos of the set-up - just for research purposes of course

Cool!

Things to look for:
  • How many batteries?
  • Capacity of the batteries?
  • How are they wired? (series/parallel)

A multimeter is helpful if you have one...


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: billi on March 06, 2020, 07:25:34 AM
Quote
Traction batteries are by far the best. They're always for sale on Ebay
Oh , but i suggest to be carefull to buy there  and is
Quote
"hacking more batteries in"
a common practice ?


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: Fintray on March 07, 2020, 05:39:38 PM
Just got onto Agile and Agile Outgoing today so looking forward to some lower bills!  :)


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: andrewellis on March 07, 2020, 07:46:38 PM
I'm so jealous of the lot of you. I can't get any working smart meters up my hill.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: Justme on March 08, 2020, 12:38:00 PM
I'm so jealous of the lot of you. I can't get any working smart meters up my hill.

Do they have a sim card in them?

What network?


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: Fintray on March 08, 2020, 12:56:03 PM
I'm so jealous of the lot of you. I can't get any working smart meters up my hill.

Do they have a sim card in them?

What network?

Northern England and Scotland use the Arqiva network which uses a long range radio signal whilst the rest of England uses the GSM network, not sure if it uses a particular carrier though.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: kdmnx on March 08, 2020, 02:36:31 PM
Time will tell. I am having a 3 month experiment with agile and will see how it plays out before deciding which is preferable. Dan, it's all a learning curve! I picked up my 3rd battery for 610 on ebay 2nd hand. Each incremental step in the RE process leads to a mini enlightenment. :)

Just read this properly!

You did well getting a PylonTech battery on ebay, they tend to go super fast for very close to full retail. I want a few more before winter...


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: Justme on March 08, 2020, 03:56:36 PM
I'm so jealous of the lot of you. I can't get any working smart meters up my hill.

Do they have a sim card in them?

What network?

Northern England and Scotland use the Arqiva network which uses a long range radio signal whilst the rest of England uses the GSM network, not sure if it uses a particular carrier though.


Wales?


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: andrewellis on March 08, 2020, 04:31:47 PM
I'm so jealous of the lot of you. I can't get any working smart meters up my hill.

Do they have a sim card in them?

What network?

Northern England and Scotland use the Arqiva network which uses a long range radio signal whilst the rest of England uses the GSM network, not sure if it uses a particular carrier though.

My current one is a SMETS 1 which is 3G.  Unfortunately the only mast near us is GPRS or 4G.  I have been told that SMETS 2 won’t work near me.  I have tried to find any form of document that shows the Arqiva coverage and cant find anything.  They were not interested in talking to me as an individual.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: Fintray on March 08, 2020, 06:58:46 PM
I'm so jealous of the lot of you. I can't get any working smart meters up my hill.

Do they have a sim card in them?

What network?

Northern England and Scotland use the Arqiva network which uses a long range radio signal whilst the rest of England uses the GSM network, not sure if it uses a particular carrier though.


Wales?

Telefonica.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: pantsmachine on March 09, 2020, 01:19:06 AM
Time will tell. I am having a 3 month experiment with agile and will see how it plays out before deciding which is preferable. Dan, it's all a learning curve! I picked up my 3rd battery for 610 on ebay 2nd hand. Each incremental step in the RE process leads to a mini enlightenment. :)

Just read this properly!

You did well getting a PylonTech battery on ebay, they tend to go super fast for very close to full retail. I want a few more before winter...r

It took a year of looking regularly until one came up (there was actually two for sale, same guy).  The serial number was intact so i asked Pylontech China for a manufacture date which they duely supplied. I'll hook it up when I get back from Egypt and lower the afternoon charging time from grid to see how well the Spring solar does in bringing the 3 up to 7.2kwh. After that its time to up battery discharge rate to controllers max of 3.6kwh and I'll be done for a while.....


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: scobo on March 09, 2020, 07:28:21 AM
It took a year of looking regularly until one came up (there was actually two for sale, same guy).  The serial number was intact so i asked Pylontech China for a manufacture date which they duely supplied. I'll hook it up when I get back from Egypt and lower the afternoon charging time from grid to see how well the Spring solar does in bringing the 3 up to 7.2kwh. After that its time to up battery discharge rate to controllers max of 3.6kwh and I'll be done for a while.....

I'm also on the lookout for a 3rd Pylon but it will need to 2nd hand and a reasonable price. Can't really justify full price on a 3rd battery.
There was a rash of them on ebay for a while there but it seems to have gone quiet again.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: Countrypaul on March 09, 2020, 12:51:35 PM
This should help some who want a smart meter but have with no mobile signal:  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-51799736


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: pantsmachine on March 12, 2020, 03:47:32 PM
Yes indeedy! :)

(https://i.postimg.cc/N25wyQQW/20200312-115919.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N25wyQQW)


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: dan_b on March 12, 2020, 03:54:06 PM
I love the rack-mount design of these, makes them look like computer servers


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: kdmnx on March 12, 2020, 04:04:52 PM
Yes indeedy! :)

(https://i.postimg.cc/N25wyQQW/20200312-115919.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N25wyQQW)


I like the homemade 19" rack! However the power connectors to the inverter are supposed to be at each end. Eg The red one at the top and the black one at the bottom.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: pantsmachine on March 12, 2020, 05:10:01 PM
Saw that on one representation and the other way around but also as I have set it up.. Neater as I did it for my circumstance and the electrons flow. Thanks for the positive input! :)

The rack helped me reduce the long term stored 'spare' wood collection in shed. :)


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: Justme on March 12, 2020, 08:17:46 PM
Saw that on one representation and the other way around but also as I have set it up.. Neater as I did it for my circumstance and the electrons flow. Thanks for the positive input! :)


Doing it that way means that the bat closest to the cables carries the most load & takes the most charge so will wear quicker than the rest.

http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html

On a 4 bat system with a 100 amp load:-

The bottom battery provides 35.9 amps of this.
The next battery up provides 26.2 amps.
The next battery up provides 20.4 amps.
The top battery provides 17.8 amps.

switching to alt ends:-

The bottom battery provides 26.7 amps of this.
The next battery up provides 23.2 amps.
The next battery up provides 23.2 amps.
The top battery provides 26.7 amps.




Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: pantsmachine on March 12, 2020, 08:37:28 PM
Cheers, i'll have a look tomorrow.

Edit- will swap tomorrow,,have read link.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: nowty on March 12, 2020, 08:59:45 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/N25wyQQW/20200312-115919.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N25wyQQW)

I agree with the others that your current battery connection     =  sh*tfan:




Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: Justme on March 12, 2020, 09:10:35 PM
Has anyone used IFTTT to control a device to turn on / off depending on price set points?

I have just bought a cheap plug to play with & can control it via phone but really want to test using it when controlled via Agile pricing but cant do that until we have an Agile account.

Does anyone have a work around?





Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: pantsmachine on March 13, 2020, 05:59:27 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/fVXQ4BHh/20200313-060551.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fVXQ4BHh)
Thanks lads, sorted now. It also turns out that by using the US2000 as the master battery it never dropped below an indicated 100% charge. Using the bottom US2000plus as the master instead gave me true percentage remaining back. Apart from all that, wiring went well...... facepalm

A much more casual depletion of percentage charge remaining now. Repeat mantra to self, I do NOT need a 4th battery. :)


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: dan_b on March 13, 2020, 10:05:56 AM
Ok, I'm intrigued now about the Pylontech self-build option.  Cost? Features?


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: scobo on March 13, 2020, 10:11:50 AM
Ok, I'm intrigued now about the Pylontech self-build option.  Cost? Features?

Your looking at around £800 per 2.4kwh Pylontech module, maybe slightly lower if you shop around or haggle on ebay.
The Lux ac controller is £780, a bit less for some of the other options such as Sofar but the Lux comes with a 10 year warranty and has better monitoring and remote control.
The Lux will allow up to 3.6kw discharge (1.2kw per Pylon) with 3 Pylons or more and 2 Lux units can be paralled for up to 7.2kw.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: Countrypaul on March 13, 2020, 10:22:09 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/fVXQ4BHh/20200313-060551.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fVXQ4BHh)
Thanks lads, sorted now. It also turns out that by using the US2000 as the master battery it never dropped below an indicated 100% charge. Using the bottom US2000plus as the master instead gave me true percentage remaining back. Apart from all that, wiring went well...... facepalm

A much more casual depletion of percentage charge remaining now. Repeat mantra to self, I do NOT need a 4th battery. :)


I thought you always needed a 4th, and a fifth, and sixth, and...   :hysteria


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: azps on March 13, 2020, 12:07:19 PM
I thought you always needed a 4th, and a fifth, and sixth, and...   :hysteria

It's like computer monitors and kittens, right? Q: How many do you need? A: One more than you've currently got. And repeat.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: pantsmachine on March 17, 2020, 03:48:51 PM
A note of caution on second hand batteries off of ebay. I had a weekend of proving that the 3rd battery was in fact a dud. A SOH of 31%,  sh*tfan: I am being refunded and the battery is heading back this evening. I bought a brand new 1 yesterday at about 3 pm and stood amazed when it arrived today at 1 pm. Basildon to Inverurie, pretty quick. The new one was literally plug and play and we now have a charge/discharge rate of 3.6kwh which was the whole idea behind the upgrade, nice to have the extra storage too. If there is ever a 4th, i'll be buying new.... surrender:


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: kdmnx on March 17, 2020, 03:52:14 PM
A note of caution on second hand batteries off of ebay. I had a weekend of proving that the 3rd battery was in fact a dud. A SOH of 31%,  sh*tfan: I am being refunded and the battery is heading back this evening. I bought a brand new 1 yesterday at about 3 pm and stood amazed when it arrived today at 1 pm. Basildon to Inverurie, pretty quick. The new one was literally plug and play and we now have a charge/discharge rate of 3.6kwh which was the whole idea behind the upgrade, nice to have the extra storage too. If there is ever a 4th, i'll be buying new.... surrender:

What did you do to "balance" the batteries? I've heard you have to leave them connected together by the power cables but not to the inverter and with no data connection to eachother or the inverter, for several hours...


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: scobo on March 17, 2020, 04:17:43 PM
A note of caution on second hand batteries off of ebay. I had a weekend of proving that the 3rd battery was in fact a dud. A SOH of 31%,  sh*tfan: I am being refunded and the battery is heading back this evening. I bought a brand new 1 yeste mirday at about 3 pm and stood amazed when it arrived today at 1 pm. Basildon to Inverurie, pretty quick. The new one was literally plug and play and we now have a charge/discharge rate of 3.6kwh which was the whole idea behind the upgrade, nice to have the extra storage too. If there is ever a 4th, i'll be buying new.... surrender:

Strangely enough, I'm waiting for delivery of one myself. Should be here by end of play today.
How did you check the SOH of the new battery ?


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: pantsmachine on March 17, 2020, 05:23:29 PM
The SOH of battery is shown in the PV master app once connected to the batteries thru the wifi on the charge controller (look in parameters). I tested my original batteries as masters and both showed 100% SOH then the 2nd hand unit as master and it showed 31% SOH.
No need for special treatment in the hook up. Plug them in. set battery type and volume of same in PV master app and off ye go. Bms does what's required. I do find the full 3.6kw wallop to be epic.
Cheers.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: scobo on March 17, 2020, 05:51:09 PM
The SOH of battery is shown in the PV master app once connected to the batteries thru the wifi on the charge controller (look in parameters). I tested my original batteries as masters and both showed 100% SOH then the 2nd hand unit as master and it showed 31% SOH.
No need for special treatment in the hook up. Plug them in. set battery type and volume of same in PV master app and off ye go. I do find the full 3.6kw wallop to be epic.
Cheers.

Yeah, the Lux ac controller also shows SOH so I'll just hook up the new battery on its own to check it before connecting it to the other 2.
It just came and has about 30% more charge than the other 2 so I'll need to discharge it a bit first anyway before balancing them.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: scobo on March 17, 2020, 06:40:01 PM
All good, new battery (well, 2nd hand from ebay dated 2017) up and running and 100% SOH. 👍


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: pantsmachine on March 17, 2020, 06:50:10 PM
Nice one!


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: scobo on March 17, 2020, 07:42:42 PM
Yeah turned out to be a good buy at £600 delivered.
For future reference in case anyone else is looking for 2nd hand batteries, the seller is South West Renewables on eBay with 100% feedback score.
Very quick delivery too, ordered Sunday and arrived today.
Although they seem to be out of Pylontechs for the time being.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: pantsmachine on March 17, 2020, 07:48:44 PM
Well, they will have one more tomorrow.... just been picked up at mine.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: scobo on March 17, 2020, 07:49:56 PM
Well, they will have one more tomorrow.... just been picked up at mine.

Is that the one at 31% SOH ?


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: pantsmachine on March 17, 2020, 09:07:16 PM
Yeah, the very one. You got the other out of the 2 for sale. Small world. They took it back no problem, parcel force collected this evening. Kudos for that but they shouldn't be selling gear that far gone at 75% of price and not knowing history.  In saying that I shouldn't have bought. Regardless, well played Sir,  enjoy yours! :)

I am very impressed with the difference the extra one is making on the graphs. Full control of house demand with no grid grabbing, pretty cool. :)


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: scobo on March 17, 2020, 09:14:40 PM
I'm just shocked that the one you got was so out of whack. Must've had faulty cells for the SOH to be that low.
What year was it manufactured ?


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: pantsmachine on March 17, 2020, 09:19:27 PM
2016. It was a good workout for my fault finding skills!


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: pantsmachine on March 28, 2020, 10:41:45 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/v4tRSLKF/20200328-104058.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/v4tRSLKF)

Green is battery SOC
Purple above line is discharge, below is charge
Orange above line is sell, below is buy.
When i think back to 2016 when we were basically sleepwalking in our power use, I am so glad that we woke up. Its been excellent fun and to be in control of what. when and how much is outstanding. :)


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: Fintray on July 02, 2020, 10:12:26 PM
Just seen this on my Octopus Dashboard page, anyone else have this or seen before?


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: pantsmachine on July 03, 2020, 07:59:02 AM
Not seen that message, maybe a Tesla battery specific?


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: dan_b on July 03, 2020, 09:21:06 AM
Yes - I get that if I log on to the portal with my Laptop. It's looking at the battery status of your device.  Quite clever really.

Just seen this on my Octopus Dashboard page, anyone else have this or seen before?



Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: Fintray on July 03, 2020, 09:41:40 AM
Can't see how they would be able to monitor the battery status as I haven't shared login details to my Tesla app and why would it be suggesting to unplug the battery especially when the battery is supplying the house loads with power stored from the PV system?

Just sent them an email asking about it, will post when I hear back.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: marshman on July 03, 2020, 10:07:05 AM
Can't see how they would be able to monitor the battery status as I haven't shared login details to my Tesla app and why would it be suggesting to unplug the battery especially when the battery is supplying the house loads with power stored from the PV system?

Just sent them an email asking about it, will post when I hear back.

Yes I have seen it when logging onto Octopus with my laptop.  It is referring to the state of charge of your laptop battery and has detected you have the power adaptor plugged in and still charging. It is suggesting you unplug your power adaptor.  I don't have any Tesla Powerwall or any other brand of house storage battery!

It only seems to happen when the grid is using a lot of "dirty" generated electricity. Doesn't seem to happen  when  clean generation is high percentage.

Roger


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: dan_b on July 03, 2020, 10:12:13 AM
It's the battery in the device you're logging into the Octopus website with, not your Tesla Powerwall

Can't see how they would be able to monitor the battery status as I haven't shared login details to my Tesla app and why would it be suggesting to unplug the battery especially when the battery is supplying the house loads with power stored from the PV system?

Just sent them an email asking about it, will post when I hear back.


Title: Re: Octopus Agile
Post by: Fintray on July 03, 2020, 11:17:14 AM
Can't see how they would be able to monitor the battery status as I haven't shared login details to my Tesla app and why would it be suggesting to unplug the battery especially when the battery is supplying the house loads with power stored from the PV system?

Just sent them an email asking about it, will post when I hear back.

Yes I have seen it when logging onto Octopus with my laptop.  It is referring to the state of charge of your laptop battery and has detected you have the power adaptor plugged in and still charging. It is suggesting you unplug your power adaptor.  I don't have any Tesla Powerwall or any other brand of house storage battery!

It only seems to happen when the grid is using a lot of "dirty" generated electricity. Doesn't seem to happen  when  clean generation is high percentage.

Roger

Oh, is that all it is, thought it was some way they could read/estimate/guess the home battery status.  facepalm