Navitron Renewable Energy and Sustainability Forum

Energy/Electricity Storage and Use/Grid Connection => Off-Grid, Batteries & Inverters => Topic started by: noah on March 17, 2020, 12:45:19 PM



Title: Whither the Ultrabattery
Post by: noah on March 17, 2020, 12:45:19 PM
The ultrabattery has been around for some time now but does not seem to be actually available.
If the reports are true then it has large advantages over the lead/acid battery and no great difficulties in manufacture.
But on ebay I can get a million SLA`s but zero Ultras.
Failure of the market?
Overhyped product?


Title: Re: Whither the Ultrabattery
Post by: RIT on March 17, 2020, 01:56:27 PM
The ultrabattery has been around for some time now but does not seem to be actually available.
If the reports are true then it has large advantages over the lead/acid battery and no great difficulties in manufacture.
But on ebay I can get a million SLA`s but zero Ultras.
Failure of the market?
Overhyped product?

More just a product with a limited market. Combining a battery with ultracapacitors allows the solution to better handle very short term high current loads and charging, but in most situations, the same can be done by just installing a larger battery. The larger battery then has the ability to handle the short term load, higher charge rates, as well as more overall capacity.

 


Title: Re: Whither the Ultrabattery
Post by: oliver90owner on March 17, 2020, 03:41:49 PM
Mad Electron Engineering (on u-toob), among others, has used super capacitors for starting his car for a couple of years.  Uses a typical security alarm size battery as a power supply to charge the capacitors.  Likely wouldn’t work too well for a diesel with heater plugs in cold weather.🙂


Title: Re: Whither the Ultrabattery
Post by: billi on March 17, 2020, 04:11:55 PM
sounded good at the time , and i spent hours , to get information .... ,  and again nowadays i still stick to my lead acid traction battery and big PV  agenda , will see, how my electric bike , convince me of those tiny tampon size cells .... :norfolk that need electronic gear  i cant handle


Title: Re: Whither the Ultrabattery
Post by: noah on March 17, 2020, 08:04:16 PM
Quote
More just a product with a limited market. Combining a battery with ultracapacitors allows the solution to better handle very short term high current loads and charging, but in most situations, the same can be done by just installing a larger battery. The larger battery then has the ability to handle the short term load, higher charge rates, as well as more overall capacity.

Well yes - but as far as I can see the advantage of the UB was that it would cycle many more times than LA and also be less likely to get damaged by over discharge.
I`ve just replaced - for the 4th time in 10 years- batteries on my waterwheel control panel because of running them flat by mistake (7AH SLA batts)  and this is just the sort of thing that an UB should guard against.
Also forklift will need a  new set and I`d much rather pay a bit more (tho as it`s just a bit of graphite added I can`t see why they should be more expensive than standard LA) for a battery capable of 5/10,000 cycles instead of 1000


Title: Re: Whither the Ultrabattery
Post by: RIT on March 17, 2020, 08:44:27 PM
Being a low volume product did not help much as it made solutions costly. The only one I looked into was a solution from the company behind the design called Ecoult, who would talk about how their solution was so much better than standard AGM batteries (but so are lemons :) and a major price tag of around $23,000 in the USA (found on the internet today) for a 20kWh unit as it was marketed at corporates. At that type of price, you can use Li batteries or a very large traction battery array.

This report sums up their issues

    https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/ecoult-returns-to-multi-megawatt-battery-market

After coming to market with their product they targetted grid-scale energy storage, but Li took much of the available business.


Title: Re: Whither the Ultrabattery
Post by: oliver90owner on March 18, 2020, 01:02:24 AM

......
I`ve just replaced - for the 4th time in 10 years- batteries on my waterwheel control panel because of running them flat by mistake (7AH SLA batts)  and this is just the sort of thing that an UB should guard against.
Also forklift will need a  new set and I`d much rather pay a bit more (tho as it`s just a bit of graphite added I can`t see why they should be more expensive than standard LA) for a battery capable of 5/10,000 cycles instead of 1000

Personally, I would not buy/install a battery system that did not have a low-voltage cut off.  Even our 15 year old car auto-turns off the power if the ancillaries are left switched on (excluding parking lights!).  Lead acid batteries should not, ideally, be discharged by more than 50% (10% is better), unless specially designed traction cells or similar, and should be returned to full charge ASAP, to avoid sulphation.  7Ah batteries are cheap, compared to ruined ‘car battery’ sized versions which would suffer the same fate.