Navitron Renewable Energy and Sustainability Forum

HEAT PUMPS & Geothermal Energy => Heat Pumps => Topic started by: gb484 on November 03, 2009, 11:31:34 AM



Title: ASHP - this one?
Post by: gb484 on November 03, 2009, 11:31:34 AM
Has anyone installed or had any experience of the ASHPs supplied by -potential spam link removed- ? Are they a reasonably good bit of kit?


Title: Re: ASHP - this one?
Post by: martin on November 03, 2009, 02:31:10 PM
Well, brushing aside for a second the considerable shortcomings of ASHPs in almost all scenarios, they'd appear to be trying to solicit advance orders for some nameless foreign brand, haven't even got any in stock by the looks of it, and expect 100 upfront so they can get one shipped in! The word bargepole springs immediately to mind! ;)
ps, one could hazard a guess at the company's green intentions and credentials from the fact they're offering "patio heaters" too wacko


Title: Re: ASHP - this one?
Post by: strawberryzoe on November 04, 2009, 12:37:12 PM
I've been looking at using -potential spam link removed- too as their prices are very competitive!

I know you get what you pay for in life but they come with a 2 yr guarantee and the specs look reasonable!

Zoe


Title: Re: ASHP - this one?
Post by: martin on November 04, 2009, 01:37:02 PM
As may be noticed, I've removed what appear to be possible spam links (of which we are suffering an outbreak)......
I really don't give a fig if it's genuine or unintentional spam, if it looks the slightest like it - out it comes!
I'll also reiterate that I wouldn't touch them for obvious reasons - if you want to take the risk, that's up to you, but I'm not allowing them to be plugged for free on this forum, especially when I have grave doubts about them......... :police:


Title: Re: ASHP - this one?
Post by: strawberryzoe on November 06, 2009, 12:59:43 PM
Can you please elaborate on your grave doubts - I'm a individual consumer looking for advice and personal experience relating to a product I'm likely to buy. I have no experience of this product so am therefore unable to endorse it or advertise and am genuinely after some steering.

Your apparent experience alluding to grave doubts would certainly be worth sharing before I embark on a costly mistake that would envelope a significant proportion of my renovation budget!


Title: Re: ASHP - this one?
Post by: martin on November 06, 2009, 01:21:27 PM
I personally have grave doubts about the efficacy and economic and eco "advantages" of ASHP in general, and they are often grossly and dishonestly oversold (see other recent threads on the subject)
Specifically about the removed links - firstly they were against the letter and spirit of the forum rules, secondly they were for an "unknown" company offering what appeared to be el cheapo unbranded imports, and I gained the impression that they probably didn't even have any of the things in stock (as they were demanding 100 to have them shipped in), which did not augur well for after-sales service - add to that the presence of advertising for the eco-ruination which is patio heaters on the same website, it didn't suggest they were the most eco-aware company in the world!

forum rules - http://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,291.0.html (http://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,291.0.html)
relevant portion -
"This forum is owned and funded by Navitron Ltd. Please respect this. Navitron wishes to promote discussion on all aspects of renewable energy and energy efficiency, but please remember that this forum is essentially provided by a manufacturer/supplier of renewable energy equipment. Discussion of equipment provided by other suppliers is quite acceptable, and we are happy for our competitors to participate in our forum, but please note that attempts to raise business or to promote a competing product on the Navitron forum is not acceptable and such posts will be deleted. Repeat offenders will be excluded from the forum

The forum is run by several volunteers who "do it for the love of it" in the hope that we can spread good, honest advice about renewables, and one of the most time-consuming and annoying parts is to have to deal with spam and spammers in all of the myriad forms it arrives, hence, if it looks like spam, it gets nuked! ;)


Title: Re: ASHP - this one?
Post by: Patrick123 on November 06, 2009, 01:36:49 PM
So I guess we cannot expext a Navitron ASHP (air to water) any day soon ?


Title: Re: ASHP - this one?
Post by: martin on November 06, 2009, 01:45:48 PM
I am an independent (and often dissenting) voice (as are all the moderators), and my views do not in any way represent official Navitron policy.(Which I reckon is a good thing, our opinions, hence the forum's are very unbiased by commerce!) Just because I don't find ASHPs to be the universal panacea they are often touted as, doesn't mean that a good one, in the right circumstances can't be the best solution.......
 There is every chance that there may well be all sorts of new products being offered, including ASHPs (based on the entirely reasonable theory that if people are going to buy them, they may as well do so from a highly reputable company that WILL source the best available, and offer proper after-sales service, as well as a keen price) ;D


Title: Re: ASHP - this one?
Post by: Moxi on November 06, 2009, 03:22:52 PM
Patrick123,

Its worth watching the navitron web page as they are currently reviewing their heat pump options - I know this as I was enquiring about the air to air heat pump which then vanished - I'm assured it will be back and it may include an air to water although previously there wasn't one on offer only GSHP.

There is a huge amount of debate re heat pumps and it requires an awful lot of reading before you apply your specific circumstances to the calculations.  Its well spent time going through the whole Heat pump section reading each thread (I've done it it doesn't take up too much time) as you will quickly become acquainted with the pro's and cons.

If electrical power is your only energy source or your alternate energy source is more expensive in kWh terms than your electricity then it is possible that heat pumps offer an economic potential, that's possible not definitely.  Have a read through the threads and then come back to the forum with your unanswered questions and I'm sure myself and others would be only too happy to try and assist.

regards

Moxi


Title: Re: ASHP - this one?
Post by: rhys on November 06, 2009, 04:27:55 PM
Patrick123,

Its worth watching the navitron web page as they are currently reviewing their heat pump options - I know this as I was enquiring about the air to air heat pump which then vanished - I'm assured it will be back and it may include an air to water although previously there wasn't one on offer only GSHP.

There is a huge amount of debate re heat pumps and it requires an awful lot of reading before you apply your specific circumstances to the calculations.  Its well spent time going through the whole Heat pump section reading each thread (I've done it it doesn't take up too much time) as you will quickly become acquainted with the pro's and cons.

If electrical power is your only energy source or your alternate energy source is more expensive in kWh terms than your electricity then it is possible that heat pumps offer an economic potential, that's possible not definitely.  Have a read through the threads and then come back to the forum with your unanswered questions and I'm sure myself and others would be only too happy to try and assist.

regards

Moxi
Interesting so was I. I'd asked Navitron via the Shop for the price of the Air to Air pump unfitted but never got a reply.
I had assumed that Martin's diatribes had meant that the product had been pulled.
I shall be in the market for an Air to Air in the next few monthe possibly an Ecodan.
Oh and before Martin either flames me or calls me a plonker, theres no gas here, the oil rayburn is a disaster area and wood chip or log  burners are far to powerful for a highly insulated 3-4kw boiler heat load house!!! Oh and I've put in oversized underfloor heating,!!
Be good if Navitron do an Air to Air again for my office and an Air to Water for the house.


Title: Re: ASHP - this one?
Post by: martin on November 06, 2009, 04:51:51 PM
'ang on a mo! - I have had a "bit of a go" at ashps in areas and situations where they have been grossly missold, but please, don't confuse that with specific situations where they can be the "only" way to go - just because I railed against roof-mounted chocolate teapots doesn't mean that in the right place, the right turbine can't be the bee's knees!
I'd better also reiterate for those that obviously haven't read or gathered the fact, what I say is down to me, nobody else, and is most definitely NOT "official" in any way - merely my own personal opinions based on experience - if someone asks whether I'd recommend an ASHP or not, I say what I think - there is no "policy" on what any moderator can believe or say (apart from the normal board rules..........) ::)
I sincerely doubt that the "shop" takes the slightest notice of what I say or believe - there is no forum Stassi imposing the plugging or slating of products in either direction - we really are to all intents and purposes "independent".

I've said this privately to the other moderators before now , I'll also say it in public - "what is the point in being "nice" over spam?"............ as this thread proves all too time-wastingly well, I'm now "getting it in the neck" from forum members because I dared to "pull" what looked like spam, and then had the decency to explain ALL the hows, whys and wherefores of why I did so - I'm also being falsely accused of "undue influence" of what is stocked........ can anyone give me one good reason why I should waste hours explaining it all, when there would probably be far less "fuss" if I just instantly nuked the posters of stuff suspected as potential spam? whistle
(Yes I have got the hump!)


Title: Re: ASHP - this one?
Post by: Moxi on November 06, 2009, 05:18:04 PM
Hi Rhys,

I had my conversation with the navi-gnomes about two weeks ago so its a case of watching the pages for its return with possibly new and interesting options? I too was after the supply only price.

I think in fairness to Martin and all the other Mods its hard to determine honest posts from spam (I wouldn't have a clue) and one of the best things about this forum is the lack of distracting advertisements to which a big thank you is owed to the Mods.  Again Martin is passionate about his subject but when you read between the oft amusing outbursts the basis is often "START WITH THE BASICS" "BE SURE OF YOUR FACTS AND CIRCUMSTANCES" "IF STILL IN DOUBT ASK"

I don't think anyone could argue with sound advice, even if it does get wrapped up in some extremely lavish language  horror:

Lets hope the ASHP (and new friends?) makes a return soon.

Moxi


Title: Re: ASHP - this one?
Post by: martin on November 06, 2009, 05:19:49 PM
thanks! ;)


Title: Re: ASHP - this one?
Post by: rhys on November 06, 2009, 05:23:56 PM
There should 've bin some smilies in my post!! Calm down Mr. Mannering surrender:
I'm all for nuking spam, even sent the odd tip off. :angel:


Title: Re: ASHP - this one?
Post by: martin on November 06, 2009, 05:28:03 PM
pax! :)


Title: Re: ASHP - this one?
Post by: Moxi on November 06, 2009, 05:37:50 PM
Sniff,

I'm filling up  :-* all this love..... :vomit2


Title: Re: ASHP - this one?
Post by: Rooster on November 07, 2009, 11:50:42 AM
If anyones thinking of getting a heatpump its worth considering that RHI's will be along soon and heatpumps are included.

Get an approved heatpump with a certified installation ( facepalm  banghead:) and you could be onto a nice little earner.
Looks like being paid around 9p a unit heat out.

COP of 3 then could presumably mean spend 10p a unit to run it get paid 27p for using it!

RHIs could well change the landscape for heatpumps dramatically.

Possibly the additional expense of a certified install will make it all a bit of a gamble until the details are finalised though.

ps. RHI = Renewable Heat Incentive, a scheme by which you can be paid for the heat you produce provided its from an approved source.
http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/what_we_do/uk_supply/energy_mix/renewable/policy/renewable_heat/incentive/incentive.aspx (http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/what_we_do/uk_supply/energy_mix/renewable/policy/renewable_heat/incentive/incentive.aspx)


 


Title: Re: ASHP - this one?
Post by: wyleu on November 07, 2009, 12:59:45 PM
ps. RHI = Renewable Heat Incentive, a scheme by which you can be paid for the heat you produce provided its from an approved source.
http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/what_we_do/uk_supply/energy_mix/renewable/policy/renewable_heat/incentive/incentive.aspx (http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/what_we_do/uk_supply/energy_mix/renewable/policy/renewable_heat/incentive/incentive.aspx)


Why do I feel that nuclear will be a (very) approved heat source?


Title: Re: ASHP - this one?
Post by: martin on November 07, 2009, 01:16:06 PM
if the ASHP scheme thing is true (and I don't disbelieve it for a second, coming as it does from the same blithering nincompoops who gave grants for roof-mounted chocolate teapots), how long before we're paid a subsidy for using "straight" electric fires?
They may yet make "economic" sense, but until we have totally renewably generated "mains", I fear they can never be anywhere near being considered as truly "green" whistle


Title: Re: ASHP - this one?
Post by: Rooster on November 07, 2009, 04:01:57 PM

Why do I feel that nuclear will be a (very) approved heat source?


Indeed, but imagine the certification process for our home brew domestic reactors!

Sadly I feel the paperwork may be the stumbling block for home based reactors.  whistle  ;)



Title: Re: ASHP - this one?
Post by: wyleu on November 08, 2009, 09:42:23 PM
Didn't someone post a link to a japanese home based nuclear thermal electrical generator?