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Author Topic: techie sparky question  (Read 7414 times)
Justme
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« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2010, 10:06:11 AM »

With the amount for power you are intending on using I would look at 48v for the battery & use all mains equipment.

Its cheaper, more relaible, more choice, easier to replace when needed.

You will be able to have much bigger alts & chargers for the same cable sizes with less losses.
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Navitron solar thermal system
30 x 58mm panel 259L TS
1200watts solar 120vdc
FX80 Solar controller
Victron 12v 3000w 120a
6kva genny
6 x 2v cells 1550amp/h 5C
24 x 2v cells 700amp/h 5C
Total bank 4350 amp/h 5C
northern installer
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« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2010, 03:24:03 PM »

Amy,have you got the room for a dedicated 230 volt ac generator?in my experience,the propulsion engine is never properly matched to the electrical generation load,so is not that efficient,and if you spend a lot of your time tied up//edit!     if you spend a lot of your time alongside,the main engine will end up with problems like glazed bores,etc.Conversley,if you spend your time cruising//edit    if you spend your time sailing the high seas,the 230v generator is likely to give slipring and avr problems through underloading. I would suggest that washer,drier,oven,hob etc run on a 230 v genset started as required,with a charger from this to the 24v battery,and also feed the battery from the largest 24v alternator that the engine can drive without pulling the water pump off its bearings;pm me for further details if you like.
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Justme
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« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2010, 09:41:05 PM »


Does this make more sense?

In your other boat power thread I recommended  just that but using a proper kit not a machine mart jobby.

Still think you need to reduce the elec load first.

Also use proper forklift bats & look after them & they should last 10+ years.  Or buy them used for much much less & still get a good few years.

Out existing bank is 1500ah (12v) & I have just bought another to add 2800ah (12v). Both are used but still very functional.
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Navitron solar thermal system
30 x 58mm panel 259L TS
1200watts solar 120vdc
FX80 Solar controller
Victron 12v 3000w 120a
6kva genny
6 x 2v cells 1550amp/h 5C
24 x 2v cells 700amp/h 5C
Total bank 4350 amp/h 5C
Amy
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« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2010, 10:05:23 PM »

So this all keeps coming back to a bunch of batteries and inverter.

What are my battery options. How many amphour and what specific type/make?
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Justme
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« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2010, 10:32:08 PM »

Have you done an energy audit?

You need to list ALL the electrics
Work out there power consumption
Work out how long they will be on for & how often


Guestimate how often & for how long the engine will be running.

How often & for how long will shore power be available.

Then you can see how many days you need to be able to sustain power via the batteries.

Times the days autonomy by the daily load (in kWh) & then at least DOUBLE it, pref treble or more.

 

Add in about 20% for losses & thats how big the bank needs to be in kWh (1).

Choose the battery voltage (higher is better) & divide the kWh above (1) by that voltage.
(you can have the engine at one voltage & the domestic battery at another, It is always best to have TWO battery banks so the engine will always start)

That is then the amph you need.

Personally I use used forklift banks as they can be found cheaply & will still have life in them for off griders (they just cant cope with the huge forklift drain for a full working shift).

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Navitron solar thermal system
30 x 58mm panel 259L TS
1200watts solar 120vdc
FX80 Solar controller
Victron 12v 3000w 120a
6kva genny
6 x 2v cells 1550amp/h 5C
24 x 2v cells 700amp/h 5C
Total bank 4350 amp/h 5C
Amy
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« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2010, 10:54:56 PM »

Flippin hell

When ive acurately guessed Fridays winning lottery numbers, I will have a wild stab at guessing my projected energy useage.

Short answer is, I havent got a clue and realy have no way of knowing.

Shall I have one cup of tea or two?  One little simple decision like that could double or halve my kettle power requirements for a whole day.  When you chuck a big brick in the pond, you never know where the ripples will lead to.

All lights will be LED and 12v flouro. A 12v fan in the bathroom, maybe on for 10mins a day, no idea of its amperage as I havent bought one yet. Then there is the water pump, couldnt tel you how often that might run, in short bursts of 20 secs at a time.
Radio, .....I cant miss Womens Hour. 12v TVs are not up to much so that will be 240v

microwave, .....maybe 5 mins one day, maybe 25 another day, who knows?

Cant see me needing the clothes iron too much but safe to say the washing machine will run on average once per 4 days.
Laptop, phone charger

Its all any bodies guess
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Thank God for Charles Darwin. Another voice of sanity in this God forsaken world.
www.amy-artimis.blogspot.com/
johnrae
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« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2010, 08:25:34 AM »

Sell boat, buy submarine.  That way you'll satisfy all the battery size pundits and have an engine + generator properly designed to charge said batteries.  You'll even get a waste disposal system built in (with 6 or 8 forward chutes and perhaps a couple of rear ones)

If you don't mind me asking, have you spoken to people who have, for very many years, successfully lead a life afloat exactly as you are ebeavouring to do.  Their experience and advice will be worth a lot more than a whole bunch of armchair theorists (myself included).

jack
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Amy
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« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2010, 08:40:45 AM »

Great answer John
I should have taken my own advice and not beat my head against the wall but let someone else do the donkey work.

Plagerise and adapt.

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Thank God for Charles Darwin. Another voice of sanity in this God forsaken world.
www.amy-artimis.blogspot.com/
northern installer
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« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2010, 09:27:29 AM »

Relax Amy,there is a simple mathematical formula to work out you boat battery capacity..........
1/ decide on voltage (I would recommend 24 volts)
2/decide where you are going to put them,(not in the bilge,and cabin sealed,vented to deck)
3/at this point,you will have a maximum dimension for each cell,armed with this,hang around government surplus supply shops,and forklift repairers,until you find the right cells at the right price.....
4/the answer to the calculation will be printed on the cells! Roll Eyes
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Paulo
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« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2010, 10:51:55 PM »

I came across this Ebay shop the other day. Some handy looking industrial batteries which may suit the boat project. (As well as some other off grid projects)
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/battery-power-shop/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340
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Amy
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« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2010, 09:08:12 AM »

thanks Paulo
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Thank God for Charles Darwin. Another voice of sanity in this God forsaken world.
www.amy-artimis.blogspot.com/
Lincsoldbird
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« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2010, 10:21:06 PM »

Hi the battery's are standby and do not have a good cycle, you are better of with new or second hand fork truck battery's that are designed to be cycled.This is advice from a chap that spent 12 years on a boat not someone on land with grid conect.
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Amy
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« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2010, 10:26:50 PM »

Well, I know nothing of the black art but that makes sense. Something thats used to taking big dips and recovering should be better than ones which see no action at all
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Thank God for Charles Darwin. Another voice of sanity in this God forsaken world.
www.amy-artimis.blogspot.com/
Billy
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« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2010, 08:55:37 AM »

Hi Ames,

You seen this site.  I used it a lot during planning etc.  Ian and me started building during the same era and he checked my calcs for me when posting bits on the web.

http://www.barging.co.uk/

Somewhere amongst all the pages was an excel sheet ready made to do the energy audit, even down to the iron.  Just put your own idea of what you think you will use and it does it for you.  Put some other figures it and see what a difference it makes.  If the sheet is not there any more I still have a copy if you want one.

Billy

 Grin Grin Grin

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