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Author Topic: Fridge, you'll kill us all.... :o)  (Read 49434 times)
pontiff
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« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2010, 09:10:57 PM »

hello heinz,
       i have to say that it looks a bit risky,the propane might leak out and collect in a pool or cloud and maybe during the xmas party go bang,to experiment is great but you have to live with it,( god this is strange coming from me),

 24 to 30g is Heinz-all and if it does leak, it'll be over days/weeks/years, not just released in one "lump". It'll be fine  Grin

Heinz

30g of propane occupies about 16 litres at room temp and pressure. The lower explosive limit for propane/air mix is 2.1%. You would only reach this if your kitchen was under 760 litres air volume. Unless you are a hobbit you should be ok even if it all leaks at once. Very impressive work!

Please bear in mind this is advice from a man who once connected an outdoor garden tap to a gas pipe by mistake.  Roll Eyes

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mespilus
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« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2010, 09:32:34 PM »

I seem to remember a post from a forum member who had many
kW of cooling in his commercial premises.

He stated something along the lines of
'that all fridges leak, just slowly, and are 'overfilled'
at the factory to give a reasonable expected lifespan.

As the volume of refrigerant gas decreases,
the fridge just runs the compressor more frequently'.

Apologies to the original poster, for forgetting his/her name,
and for any paraphrasing.

Well done in resuscitating your 'dead' fridge.

I suspect the pile of fridges is awaiting an upturn
in Chinese steel production, before the refrigerant gas
reclamation units which chew up old UK fridges return to
economic operation.
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Heinz
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« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2010, 11:05:12 PM »

World-class bodgery. Well done. Interesting to know if efficiency changes significantly. Do you know how much it used before?

Thanks. No idea what it used before. I keep meaning to buy one of those plug in energy usage meter do-da's but there's always something more important to spend my spare fivers on...
Cheers,

Heinz
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Heinz
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« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2010, 11:12:19 PM »


30g of propane occupies about 16 litres at room temp and pressure. The lower explosive limit for propane/air mix is 2.1%. You would only reach this if your kitchen was under 760 litres air volume. Unless you are a hobbit you should be ok even if it all leaks at once. Very impressive work!

Please bear in mind this is advice from a man who once connected an outdoor garden tap to a gas pipe by mistake.

Thanks, useful info to fend off the wrath of SWMBO  Smiley

Heinz
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Heinz
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« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2010, 09:53:29 PM »

Update,
Got the new thermostat and fitted it but still didn't seem to work properly. Fridge not getting as cold as I'd like so drained the propane (outside) and refilled with butane which someone here had suggested. Now cools better and the condenser (black radiator thingy at the rear) doesn't get as warm, about 10deg C lower than on propane, so I assume it's more efficient?

Yes, that is a bicycle pump connector with one end chopped off and I did fill it in the kitchen again, sorry Amy  whistlie . Much easier to fill it with the wee can of camping cooker butane than it was with the propane.
What temp is a fridge supposed to be at?? A Google says 3 to 5deg C but where in the fridge? The rear wall is at -18 (running) where the evaporator coil is with ice crystals forming, the milk in the door is at 6deg C and the glass of water on the middle shelf is at 4 to5 deg C, bacon on the bottom shelf at 2deg C. I wish I'd had the foresight to measure the temps a month ago when it was hunky-dory... Will need to start carrying a temp gauge and measure fridge temps wherever I go  Roll Eyes
Cheers,

Heinz
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climber
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« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2010, 10:31:56 PM »

Excellent! It always annoys me when I see fridges being scrapped.

Must stop by the scrappy under the Friarton bridge and see how many fridges I can revive.........
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roscoe
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« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2010, 11:03:12 PM »

Absolutely magic, double applaud  Smiley

I think we have a white goods E-Room on the go, love it.

Side sound bite...
Once had a fancy new german car AC stop working, the garage with a straight face said whilst the AC system was under warranty, the refridgerant gas was not!
The buggers wanted several hundred to re-gas and if no leak found then not covered under warranty... disbelief.
At the time a wee van man recharged the system for fifty and did a leak test at my house, amazed it was soooooo simple.

Surely some clever/determined people could manage to uprate (energy rate) all these un-loved fridge mountains people talk about.

Which brings me finally onto the question ?

Any tips for improving the efficiency of an old cooling appliance ?

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Heinz
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« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2010, 11:53:12 PM »


Which brings me finally onto the question ?

Any tips for improving the efficiency of an old cooling appliance ?

Well, as I'm in "fridge mode" at the moment, I've been thinking about this. Seems to me that more insulation round the outside would help. If I still lived alone, I'd just glue some foam sheet all over it, but SWMBO will never pass that one... The other thing is the condenser round the back. It's warm/hot and it's just an inch away from the part you want to be cold... chocolateteapot seems to me that spacing the condenser another inch away and adding a sheet of something to reflect the heat would help.
Back of fridge - SPACE - reflector - SPACE - condenser.
I had wondered about something cheap like hardboard? Foil covered on one side?

Heinz
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knighty
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« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2010, 11:57:30 PM »

iirc.... you can buy a can of fridge gas about the same size as your butane can there which is ready made to re-fill car aircon...   Wink
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dhaslam
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« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2010, 12:10:49 AM »

What temp is a fridge supposed to be at?? A Google says 3 to 5deg C but where in the fridge? The rear wall is at -18 (running) where the evaporator coil is with ice crystals forming, the milk in the door is at 6deg C and the glass of water on the middle shelf is at 4 to5 deg C, bacon on the bottom shelf at 2deg C. I wish I'd had the foresight to measure the temps a month ago when it was hunky-dory... Will need to start carrying a temp gauge and measure fridge temps wherever I go  Roll Eyes

Fridge thermostats seem to be placed around the centre  and normal setting is about  5C.   The bottom  becomes a little bit colder  and the top a bit warmer but within about one degree either way.   My fridge stopped working last week  and was indicating 12C  but actually the temperature at the bottom stayed around 8C  which is reasonably OK.   Incidentally Samsung repaired the fridge without charge even though it was out of warranty because they accepted that  there was a design fault  in the defrosting system.     
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Ivan
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« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2010, 02:02:52 AM »

Excellent bodging! Especially the tyre valve. If anyone needs one of these for a similar bodge, let me know - I've got a few hundred brand new ones in my toolbox.

One question - did you fill with gas or liquid (ie was the bottle inverted or right way up?). Did you have any trouble getting the quantity to decant (did you need to heat the gas bottle?). Incidentally, if you invert an old propane bottle, you'll get a lot of dirt and heavy ends go through which won't do the fridge much good.

A friend of mine did this with his old CFC fridge under similar circumstances in the early 90's Last time I heard, the fridge was running perfectly, several years later. He did something quite clever - he overfilled it, then measured the cycling time (ie how long ON, how long OFF) with a stopwatch, whilst he watched TV in the evening. Once he'd worked out a baseline, he released a little gas, then did it again. The fridge was on for less time. He released a bit more, and timed it again. He did this until he reached a minimum...but of course, didn't know this until the 'On' time increased again. Once he knew the shortest time the fridge was capable of, he just refilled it a little and repeated, but this time stopping once he got to the optimum 'On' time.
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camillitech
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« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2010, 08:06:14 AM »

Fantastic work Heinz,

I don't care how inefficient your fridge is, it's a far smaller carbon footprint than manufacturing a new one, well done.

As for Biff's mate and the circular saw, well that was much worse than when I used stainless steel rigging wire in mine cos I'd run out of cord  facepalm

Cheers, Paul
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'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
Heinz
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« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2010, 10:04:05 AM »

One question - did you fill with gas or liquid (ie was the bottle inverted or right way up?). Did you have any trouble getting the quantity to decant (did you need to heat the gas bottle?). Incidentally, if you invert an old propane bottle, you'll get a lot of dirt and heavy ends go through which won't do the fridge much good.

I filled with gas rather than liquid. If you just open the valves only a smidgen of gas will transfer before flow stops, but turn the fridge on and the compressor sucks the gas in quickly, 15? seconds for 40g.

Heinz
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rhys
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« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2010, 11:57:42 AM »

Fantastic work Heinz,

I don't care how inefficient your fridge is, it's a far smaller carbon footprint than manufacturing a new one, well done.

As for Biff's mate and the circular saw, well that was much worse than when I used stainless steel rigging wire in mine cos I'd run out of cord  facepalm

Cheers, Paul
Is that true?
I thought the energy use/ footprint of a fridge was about 20% manufacturing and 80% energy use,over its life time,  even with a relatively modern fridge.
So replacing a 5 to 10 year old fridge makes sense, given that it should use roughly half the energy of an old fridge.
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camillitech
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« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2010, 12:23:32 PM »

Fantastic work Heinz,

I don't care how inefficient your fridge is, it's a far smaller carbon footprint than manufacturing a new one, well done.

As for Biff's mate and the circular saw, well that was much worse than when I used stainless steel rigging wire in mine cos I'd run out of cord  facepalm

Cheers, Paul
Is that true?
I thought the energy use/ footprint of a fridge was about 20% manufacturing and 80% energy use,over its life time,  even with a relatively modern fridge.
So replacing a 5 to 10 year old fridge makes sense, given that it should use roughly half the energy of an old fridge.

You could well be right Rhys,

I am however really skeptical about these claims, for a start if the fridge is made in China by a coal fired power station then shipped here in a mega container ship using heavy oil is that taken into account  Huh or how about the energy required to remove the gas from the old one and then ship it back to China to be turned into a million other bits of cr4p we don't need.

I know you could go round in circles for years debating this and at the end of the day still be no wiser. I mean this whole 'carbon footprint' things all a bit vague anyway. At one time all the power stations were coal but at least they were British coal and usually mined right next door. What's the true price of keeping the oil and gas flowing in terms of all the embedded energy in an aircraft carrier or submarine  Grin

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm  just saying that I've not got a clue  surrender

Cheers, Paul
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 4.75kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
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