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Author Topic: GSHP UFH Circulation problem  (Read 13629 times)
Ted
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« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2010, 08:49:54 PM »

According to Stuart's annotation there are 2 one-way valves there to control direction of flow. But presumably the pump is sucking at the coolest part of the return?
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StBarnabas
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« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2010, 09:02:02 PM »

Ted

they are mixing valves (or so my plumber said). I will need to check the pump again. Lightfoot also hoped the pump was on the return rather than the flow (and was horrified I think about how it has been set up). He is going to send me some diagram as to how it might be set up properly. Sadly the builder I was using who subcontracted the plumber went into liquidation during the build. It sort of worked for a while but I had nothing to do with the system design. Wish I knew more when it was being installed.

Sean

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Gestis Censere. 40x47mm DHW with TDC3. 3kW ASHP, 9kW GSHP, 3kW Navitron PV with Platinum 3100S GTI, 6.5kW WBS, 5 chickens. FMY 2009.
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« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2010, 09:23:14 PM »

can you close the mixing valves ?  (as a test?)

10 says that makes the system work Wink
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Stuart
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« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2010, 09:32:47 PM »

Mine is installed so the pump sucks the blended water through the valve.



I'd assume it requires positive pressure on both inlets to opperate correctly, sure there will be a proper plumber along to tell us soom  ralph
« Last Edit: November 29, 2010, 09:37:24 PM by Stuart » Logged

8kw woodburner, Big piles of wood, 20 tube solar panel, custom tanks, back up gas boiler, North walls internally insulated
1968 landy that runs on anything and a currently wild meadow garden.

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desperate
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« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2010, 09:38:48 PM »

Hi Sean,

Here's a downright filthy thought, your thermal store provides water at the ideal temp for UFH, so ditch the mixing valve baloney, there not much point in having it in the system at all, I am assuming your kitchen rad is fed directly from the store .

We have an UFH circuit fed as a zone directly from the CH controlled by a stat and 2 port valve, been working fine for 8 years now.

At cactusville we dont mess around with all those mixer doohickeys   horror


Desp
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StBarnabas
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« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2010, 09:40:58 PM »

can you close the mixing valves ?  (as a test?)

10 says that makes the system work Wink
Oh yes have tried this a few times. Does improve things slightly in that the first few square metres of floor gets slightly warmer.
You owe me a pint when you next come to Newcastle!
Sean
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StBarnabas
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« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2010, 09:44:39 PM »

Hi Sean,

Here's a downright filthy thought, your thermal store provides water at the ideal temp for UFH, so ditch the mixing valve baloney, there not much point in having it in the system at all, I am assuming your kitchen rad is fed directly from the store .

We have an UFH circuit fed as a zone directly from the CH controlled by a stat and 2 port valve, been working fine for 8 years now.

At cactusville we dont mess around with all those mixer doohickeys   horror


Desp

Desp
could well do. I can switch them off, which I have tonight. It's such a shame that the weather is such as it is for the past week! I was hoping to tweak the system before the bad weather set in but no such look!

Sean
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Stuart
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« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2010, 09:47:14 PM »

Turning the valve on and off must of dislodged some gunge and that worked for me for a short while too, have you checked the filters yet?

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« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2010, 09:48:49 PM »

Mine is installed so the pump sucks the blended water through the valve.



I'd assume it requires positive pressure on both inlets to opperate correctly, sure there will be a proper plumber along to tell us soom  ralph
Stu
Looks nice, looks better than my dogs dinner!  I wish I contacted  lightfoot two years ago...
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Philip R
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« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2010, 09:54:05 PM »

Just noted Stuart's comment on the pump sucking through the mixing valve. There may lie a potential problem.

Suction of the pipework under negative pressure may suck in air through spindle packing glands and compression fittings. ( I witnessed this on a water cooling system with 4 bar positive head with a good system flow in my former workplace). High fluid velocities & turbulent flow regimes can produce localised vacuums, hence drawing in air as microbubbles.
Therefore try to locate the pump suction at the neutral point of system, i.e. where the head tank make up (if fitted) or expansion device.
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« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2010, 09:57:12 PM »

Hello Sean,
               Can i suggest, while you've got things drained down, that you replace those manual air-vents on the manifold with 2 x auto air vents. They're a gods end on UFH manifolds.

     chicken
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My first recollection of tinkering was wiring a 240v radio cord to a 9v motor to my technic Lego truck, it ended with setting the kitchen on fire!............................I couldn't sit down for two days!
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« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2010, 10:04:06 PM »

Stb
You said you had turned the rads off but was it at the rad or the shutoff valve ?
If at the rad the lazy route may still be on


* stb1.JPG (21 KB, 451x692 - viewed 409 times.)

* stb2.JPG (40.48 KB, 517x692 - viewed 397 times.)
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StBarnabas
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« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2010, 10:21:42 AM »

Sorry all
day job got in the way!    Here is a picture of one of the filters. I think that Stu was right! Filters now cleaned. System now back up and running looking good!

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Gestis Censere. 40x47mm DHW with TDC3. 3kW ASHP, 9kW GSHP, 3kW Navitron PV with Platinum 3100S GTI, 6.5kW WBS, 5 chickens. FMY 2009.
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« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2010, 12:35:16 AM »

Hi StB,

That brown stuff in the filter looks a bit suspicious. It could be microbial slime or an excess of plumbers jointing compound.

It would be wise to keep an eye on these filters as more of the slime could appear. Just hope it is not m/slime. (I have seen this in several steam turbine lube oil systems and in fuel oil (red diesel ) tanks.  sh*tfan

PhilR
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StBarnabas
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« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2010, 09:46:03 AM »

Dear StB, what is your 1000 litre store charged with? Its a box on your circuit diagram, but do you have another circuit there to a solar thermal panel?
CTE
It is currently only charged by the GSHP. Due to the topology of StBC the solar system is totally independent of the GSHP system. The reason for the store is so that I can charge it up overnight using E7 electricity. As StBC is such a thermally heavy building this strategy works quite well.
StB
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Gestis Censere. 40x47mm DHW with TDC3. 3kW ASHP, 9kW GSHP, 3kW Navitron PV with Platinum 3100S GTI, 6.5kW WBS, 5 chickens. FMY 2009.
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