navitron
 
Renewable Energy and Sustainability Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Anyone wishing to register as a new member on the forum is strongly recommended to use a "proper" email address. Following continuous spam/hack attempts on the forum, "disposable" email addresses like Gmail, Yahoo and Hotmail tend to be viewed with suspicion, and the application rejected if there is any doubt whatsoever
 
Recent Articles: Navitron Partners With Solax to Help Create A More Sustainable Future | Navitron Calls for Increased Carbon Footprint Reduction In Light of Earth Overshoot Day | A plea from The David School - Issue 18
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Moixa - Smart low voltage DC Grid for the home  (Read 7770 times)
stuartiannaylor
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 429


« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2010, 09:38:47 PM »

I talked to these people a couple of weeks ago too (a HEAT 10 conference) and was impressed that their chief engineer knew what he was talking about and the CEO certaqinly wasn't an idiot either.

Wookie if you spoke to them can you expand on how this is to work and what there conversion efficiencies are? I have been very interested in SMPS design and like inverters they only gain high efficiency at matched ratings. As soon as you start pulling standby or ill matched power then the efficiencies slump.
That is one reason we have a plethora of convertors and voltages cover a wide spectrum. You must have some low down, as to what it says on the website is just sales blurb.
Logged

I just despise hedgehogs! can they not learn to share
Baz
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1391


« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2010, 10:13:31 PM »


Id rather see European legislation on minimum efficiency's of power supplies, standby currents etc...
 
Done. Came into force in January this year with further tightening in July. It comes under a generic title of 'Lot 6' in the consumer electronics arena. Of course most of EU is taking a casual view of it while we follow the letter of the regs at some expense.

Logged
Stuart
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 665


Engineer ..... at large


« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2010, 10:39:49 PM »

Thanks Baz, is there a copy of it to pick through?
Logged

8kw woodburner, Big piles of wood, 20 tube solar panel, custom tanks, back up gas boiler, North walls internally insulated
1968 landy that runs on anything and a currently wild meadow garden.

Nr. Tow Law
KenB
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2694


Energy Self Enlightenment


WWW
« Reply #33 on: December 16, 2010, 08:30:05 AM »

As Wookey has correctly observed, the use of a low voltage dc household distribution network is just one of the disruptive technologies, which will change the way we use energy over the next few decades.  Some industry analysts are even calling these changes Electricity 2.0.

Who would have predicted widespread domestic solar installations, LED lighting, energy monitoring and smart metering a decade ago? Not to mention commercial availability of electric vehicles from mainstream manufacturers. These innovations will change the way we use and pay for energy.

The ability to efficiently transform energy from one form to another is crucial if we are to extract the most from declining resources of fossil fuels and materials.  High frequency dc/dc converters use considerably less iron and copper than conventional 50Hz transformers - and that means lower cost and lower shipping fuel costs.  It's all part of a trend to design out the more expensive metal parts from equipment.  For example compare a mid-80's desk top PC with a modern desktop - there's probably a 50% reduction in metal parts and weight.

Linking appliances up to a central communications hub, offers possibilities in having them access power during off-peak periods when demand is low. A combined dc supply and communications cable - possibly a derivative of a USB lead that includes high current conductors, would allow appliances to be scheduled when needed and also to give feedback of performance and usage.   Appliances which still require 230V ac for resistive heating and motor power might still feature a dc input to allow efficient standby modes, clock and timer functions to keep running.


It occurred to me that if you look at the mean energy consumption of my washing machine over a week (household of 2), that even the washing machine could have a dc mode, and run off a couple of kWh of lead acid batteries and a hot water feed, batteries fitted to act as drum damping - in place of all that concrete?

Ken
Logged
EccentricAnomaly
Guest
« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2010, 10:08:46 AM »

But the solution to that is to not charge phone at night (and lets be honest they charge up in much less than an hour)

Yes, poor example on my part.  Cordless phone basestation would be a better example of a low power device you'd want to leave on at night.

Quote
& turn the server off at home

I'm talking about the home server which is running the house's energy systems and stuff - not an Internet facing web server.

Quote
(or have it on a UPS that is large enough to last the inverter off periods)

Right, two possible schemes:

  • battery - dc-dc converter - server
  • battery - inverter - [UPS: charger - battery - inverter] - ac-dc power supply - server

Quote
... Not increase production of yet more gadgets.

Yes, I can see that the second scheme involves fewer gadgets.  Oh wait...

Quote
& have the site hosted elsewhere.

If this was an Internet facing web server there would still be energy (and security, if not telecoms) arguments for keeping it at home.  A server in a data centre consumes its own power plus about, I think, half as much again in cooling.  A server at home acts as a CHC system (combined heat and computing) and you get to control the source of the energy used to run it which is really the point of being off-grid anyway (at least for me).
« Last Edit: December 16, 2010, 10:10:35 AM by EccentricAnomaly » Logged
stuartiannaylor
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 429


« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2010, 10:45:15 AM »

As Wookey has correctly observed, the use of a low voltage dc household distribution network is just one of the disruptive technologies, which will change the way we use energy over the next few decades.  Some industry analysts are even calling these changes Electricity 2.0.
Have you two got shares in the Moixa product or something or am I missing something? The whole reason I don't like the Moixa product is that apart from being able to supply a couple chargers it does nothing. With DC you need copper the big thick variety.
What you have just quoted ken is so much in the similar vein of household micro turbines sounds good on paper but in reality there is no real usable wind in an urban situation.

The smart grid is about load balancing its about the future of billing and control and also it worries me. The smart grid is to aid with distribution and provide a mechanism to turn off energy guzzling devices at peak periods and provide a balanced demand. This is to stop problems of everybody's dishwashers coming on at 6:30 pm. Big national events when people all put there kettles on during the advert breaks. Immersion heaters, Fridges, Freezers, Microwaves, Cookers and battery chargers.
Those are the devices where the problems lie and the Moixa unit doesn't seem to have the scope. Even though I have asked for further information as so far we haven't even got an efficiency rating, not even a ball park figure.
What worries me is that peak periods are going to offer the people who can afford the rates, energy at that moment and those who can't, well they can wait until later.
That is all in the future as the smart meter roll out in the uk will not be complete until 2020.

Also for over a month now I have been off forum banging onto Wookie about getting involved in an Open source design that does look at some of these issues. I just don't understand the "Not Interested" answers and then you can support a commercial product wrapped in IP when you are actively involved in Free software initiatives and open source movements. I am only saying this as I thought with your technical knowledge and  background you would be an obvious champion and I am unsure why not.

Ken I am not knocking your input to the idea of DC distributed networks at all but there are some major hurdles and I just run scared when I see green products advertised with absolutely zero supporting evidence.

Also I have been working on an idea / design that could be used now and has the possibility for huge savings in lighting energy but have been struggling with scope rather than technicality. I will post a new thread in the innovation / bodges section and hopefully people will contribute. Its IP free Open Source and will only benefit from your input.

Stuart

http://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,12443.0.html#new (new thread)


 
« Last Edit: December 16, 2010, 01:39:05 PM by stuartiannaylor » Logged

I just despise hedgehogs! can they not learn to share
KenB
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2694


Energy Self Enlightenment


WWW
« Reply #36 on: December 16, 2010, 01:42:49 PM »

Stuart,


No I don't have shares in them just a passing technical interest in what they are proposing.

I just happened to have met their chief exec at a conference on Monday and chatted for an hour or so. A thoroughly knowledgeable pleasant chap. 

With a degree in physics from Cambridge and many years in design and consumer electronics, I expect he is quite able to find his way around Ohm's Law. 

If you are interested to know more detail about the scope of the project, I suggest you read the patent which I have linked to at the end of my second post.



Ken
Logged
stuartiannaylor
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 429


« Reply #37 on: December 16, 2010, 01:59:13 PM »

Stuart,
No I don't have shares in them just a passing technical interest in what they are proposing.
I just happened to have met their chief exec at a conference on Monday and chatted for an hour or so. A thoroughly knowledgeable pleasant chap. 
If you are interested to know more detail about the scope of the project, I suggest you read the patent which I have linked to at the end of my second post.
Ken
Yeah exactly my point "patent" if you wish to commit to someone else IP and get rich scheme in an area of green technology. Then its a brilliant idea.
If you ever read about the westinghouse, tesla and edison patent and industrial revolution scam that we as users have been making rich for the last hundred years then why not as he is such a nice chap!
Logged

I just despise hedgehogs! can they not learn to share
Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums
Simple Audio Video Embedder
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!