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Author Topic: Trace SW series - Transformer test  (Read 10730 times)
clivejo
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« on: April 16, 2011, 09:41:46 PM »

I am currently testing a SW series Trace inverter.  It has 3 transformers lets call them big, medium and wee one. They are wired in series in order to make the 230VAC.  I have tested the resistance and everything checks out. 

Now if I were to put the mains across the 3 transformers, in theory, I should get an AC voltage on the secondary coils in the range of 48V.  Or will I blow myself up?
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Alan
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« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2011, 10:49:50 PM »

More information is required. What are You trying to Dooo

Quote “ They are wired in series in order to make the 230VAC. “

Serious guess work taking place here.

About Quote “ I should get an AC voltage on the secondary coils in the range of 48V.  Or will I blow myself up? “

Serious guess work time has elapsed.  banghead
I give up. Me not got a clue what U is up to.

Will Ponder with more info.

Regards

Alan
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clivejo
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« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2011, 11:12:34 PM »

More information is required. What are You trying to Dooo

I am testing the transformers in a Trace SW inverter.


Serious guess work taking place here.

There is no guess work at all, the transformer are wired in series and are wired to the inverter output via relay board.

Serious guess work time has elapsed.  banghead
I give up. Me not got a clue what U is up to.

That's ok, Ill figure it out eventually .....



* transformers.jpg (77.27 KB, 906x641 - viewed 609 times.)
« Last Edit: April 17, 2011, 11:24:13 PM by clivejo » Logged
rogeriko
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« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2011, 11:20:58 PM »

If you connect the output of any inverter to the mains you will definately get clouds of white smoke and an expensive repair bill!!
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clivejo
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« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2011, 11:25:47 PM »

If you connect the output of any inverter to the mains you will definately get clouds of white smoke and an expensive repair bill!!

I understand that, but the FET board has been disconnected and the transformer output isolated to a connection block.
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rogeriko
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« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2011, 11:32:58 PM »

As long as everything is disconnected no problem. A transformer will work both ways up and down. I have made many 24v battery chargers out of old ups transformers running the wrong way round.
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clivejo
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« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2011, 11:37:59 PM »

As long as everything is disconnected no problem. A transformer will work both ways up and down. I have made many 24v battery chargers out of old ups transformers running the wrong way round.

That's what I want to test, what I'm unsure about is the fact they are wired in series!  Never wired a transformer in series before so no idea how it will react. Ive searched the net but nothing on how they will perform in series.  Any ideas?

If I use a very low mA fuse and connect mains AC to the stepped up side, I'm expecting to get approx 48VAC out the other side.  Do you agree?
« Last Edit: April 17, 2011, 11:41:11 PM by clivejo » Logged
Alan
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« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2011, 08:06:34 AM »

Quote “ I am testing the transformers in a Trace SW inverter. “

Why have you wired the transformers in series to test them. ?

Quote “ I am testing the transformers in a Trace SW inverter. “

What do you want the transformers to do ?

Are they double wound transformers. ?
What is the primary voltage of each transformer. ?
What is the secondary voltage of each transformer. ?
What is the Volts / Amps ratio of each transformer ?
What frequency was the transformer designed to work on. ?

It is very easy to test any transformer in any application if you know what
you are doing..

Quote “ There is no guess work at all, the transformer are wired in series and are wired to the inverter output via relay board. “

WHY

There is lots of quess work. Please explain what you are trying to do in More detail.

Regards

Alan
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rogeriko
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« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2011, 08:55:51 AM »

from the picture looks like they are chokes not transformers. If they have 2 wires they are chokes if they have 4 wires or more they are transformers. A choke is a kind of ac current limiting device
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clivejo
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« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2011, 12:15:12 PM »

from the picture looks like they are chokes not transformers. If they have 2 wires they are chokes if they have 4 wires or more they are transformers. A choke is a kind of ac current limiting device

They are transformers, the input terminals are on the other side.

Alan, I dont understand your question.  They are wired in series because that's the way Trace designed it to be!  The inverter is designed to take 48VDC and make 230VAC, it operates as an inverter and battery charger in one.  The control board modifies the voltage and frequency in order to sync with the mains supply, so its ~50Hz and ~230V.  It is rated for a continuous output of 3Kw so about 13 amps?

I dont know the ratio of the transformers, this is what I want to work out.
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Alan
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« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2011, 02:28:25 PM »

Quote “ Alan, I don’t understand your question.  They are wired in series because that's the way Trace designed it to be! “


Quote “  it operates as an inverter and battery charger in one. “

The Inverter would use one transformer to convert from 48 volts D.C. To 230 volts A.C.

This transformer would be designed specifically for a solid state application working at high frequency using high frequency I.G.B.T. Fets for switching. It would probably be centre tapped and double wound for a full wave bridge application. The design of the transformer would also assist in reducing harmonic interference

If it was used in reverse to transform 230 volts A.C. To a lower voltage at 50 H.Z. It would probably have to be down rated considerably because of the design considerations above.

 Quote “ it operates as an inverter and battery charger in one. “
The battery charger  would use one transformer for 230 volts A.C. To a lower voltage suitable for battery charging. The design and construction of this transformer would take into account that the secondary would be fitted with a full wave bridge rectifier.

Quote “ Alan, I don’t understand your question.  They are wired in series because that's the way Trace designed it to be! “

Maybe you should contact Trace.

There is no logical reason that I can see that they would wire all the transformers in series.?

Quote “ I dont know the ratio of the transformers, this is what I want to work out. “

Back to the origional question. What do you want to use the transformers for. ?

If you want to find the ratio of the transformer just test one at a time. All you need to do is wire
one side to a low voltage A.C. source. Measure the voltage of the low voltage source. Measure the voltage of the other side of
the transformer. Then work out the ratio. As above the ratio alone will not help if you are using
the transformer at a different frequency.

If you are working on equipment like this you should easily be able to work out what the transformers
were used for in the design application.

Regards

Alan
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clivejo
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« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2011, 07:39:12 PM »

The Inverter would use one transformer to convert from 48 volts D.C. To 230 volts A.C.

This transformer would be designed specifically for a solid state application working at high frequency using high frequency I.G.B.T. Fets for switching. It would probably be centre tapped and double wound for a full wave bridge application. The design of the transformer would also assist in reducing harmonic interference

As I said above the inverter uses three (3) transformers.  I have included a picture in my past post to confirm this point!  If I had to guess I reckon the three transformers work together to create the stepped-sine wave.

I would contact Trace but they no longer exist.  Xantrex took them over and no longer give technical help for the Trace products, they will however arrange to send me parts.

I want to repair the inverter, the FET board has been damaged (I dont know how! possibly lightening).  I want to check the transformers are OK before paying £500+ for a new FET board.
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