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Author Topic: Where is the centre of the universe?  (Read 4418 times)
Wickham
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« on: July 08, 2011, 07:29:42 PM »

Where is the centre of the universe?

If I look at the stars, which are basically in the same place as the earth spins, which star constellation do I look through to "see" the centre of the universe?

Then if I look in the opposite direction, that is the direction I am travelling in at some fantastic speed close to the speed of light.

I don't fully understand it when I'm told that all galaxies are speeding away from each other at the speed of light. I can understand that they might be speeding away from the centre of the universe at the speed of light, but two neighbouring galaxies on a parallel course will surely not be moving away from each other at any great speed, like two trains on parallel tracks both doing 100mph - they aren't moving relative to each other at all.

A train passing the other way at 100mph means the speed differential is 200mph, so galaxies on opposite sides of the universe centre must be moving away from each other at twice the speed of light. I think Einstein sorted it out, saying that that's impossible and that all are travelling at close to the speed of light relative to each other, but I can't follow that.
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biff
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« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2011, 07:50:50 PM »

relax wickham,
             this is deep thinking,years ago i remember sitting in front of a big open fire.the farmer was piling on the logs and talking about the lunar landing,  "but for all that" he said,"they still cannot figure how how to land upside down like the fly does on the ceiling",,,,"i mean how do they do it,,i mean look at my ceiling,there is big heavy flies dawdling round,not flying too hard and all they have to do is turn over and land upside down,,why the little bu,,ggers must switch off the gravity"
     a week or so later the big white ambulance with the men in white coats took him away for a holiday in the city.
 i must add that it is a good job that he did not hear about einstein or his theory on relativity or speeding galaxies.the poor man would never have survived it.
            biff
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Wickham
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« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2011, 07:56:06 PM »

Ha! I'm thinking of pointing my PV panels towards the centre to get some extra radiation!
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spluger
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its why i'm doing it


« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2011, 08:13:56 PM »

centre of the milky way (our galaxy) rougthly orions belt

i think its only the outer most galaxies that are so red shifted that they are apporching the speed of light

my theroy is the universe is smaller than we think and were just looking around the "big ballon" back at our selfs billons of years in history and as this ballon expands it redshifts all the old light.

read a brief history of time and if you understand that then you deserve a big pat on the back

no where's that brain melting smiley  whistlie

David
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biff
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« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2011, 08:15:39 PM »

ahhh ha,!!
         wickham,you must be a fellow sufferer, this illness of "cheap solar tracker syndrome" must be extremely contagious.the symptoms are quite special. the sufferer piles his solar panels on a contraption which is balanced on two wheels.then he keeps spinning them round at the sun and as you know the sun moves across the sky daily and the poor chap fall over from a mixture of plain old exhaustion and sunstroke.
  it is obvious you are in the early stages,i am glad i brough it to your attention meanwhile i am tied to the bed with only one hand free to type this warning to you..ru  ru  run for it.
                          biff
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EccentricAnomaly
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« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2011, 08:41:15 PM »

The Universe is considered not to have a centre. I've always wanted to put a blue plaque on a house saying that on this spot in the year 13.6... BC the Universe was formed. It's true for all houses.

centre of the milky way (our galaxy) rougthly orions belt

The centre of the galaxy is in Sagittarius.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milky_way#Appearance_from_Earth

I imagine you're thinking of the spiral arm we're near the end of; Orion is in the direction down the middle of that.

Quote
i think its only the outer most galaxies that are so red shifted that they are apporching the speed of light

So do I.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2011, 08:44:27 PM by EccentricAnomaly » Logged
Wickham
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« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2011, 09:15:32 PM »

The Universe is considered not to have a centre. I've always wanted to put a blue plaque on a house saying that on this spot in the year 13.6... BC the Universe was formed. It's true for all houses.

No centre? What happened to the big bang theory and the place that we are all moving away from? There must be a direction to look at (not that I'll see anything. I think I'll go to bed. It's too much for my brain.).
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desperate
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Backache stuff!!


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« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2011, 09:35:26 PM »

The big bang theory postulates that all space was created in one event and has been expanding ever since, so all the space you see around you was born in the big bang albeit much smaller than it is now, so it doesn't need a "centre"

Quote
"A train passing the other way at 100mph means the speed differential is 200mph, so galaxies on opposite sides of the universe centre must be moving away from each other at twice the speed of light. I think Einstein sorted it out, saying that that's impossible and that all are travelling at close to the speed of light relative to each other, but I can't follow that. "

A nice analogy I read somewhere asks you to think of the universe like a currant bun, as it cooks and swells the currants get further apart but they are not traveling through the dough (space) rather the dough is expanding carrying the currants with it. In the same way as space expands it carries the galaxies with it so that relative to each other galaxies can travel faster than light, but relative to the space they are in they travel at less than the speed of light.  Of course the galaxies that are travelling faster than light relative to us would forever be invisible to us, this very likely puts an enormous amount of the universe beyond our horizon, all of which means that a centre for our universe is even less logical.

D
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biff
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« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2011, 09:51:46 PM »

exactly desp,
               just what i as thinking myself.good to see you.
                                                                       biff
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billi
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« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2011, 10:00:23 PM »

Quote
Where is the centre of the universe?

I guess its everywhere around me




Hi Desperate  Smiley
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EccentricAnomaly
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« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2011, 10:18:04 PM »

Very good work, Wickham, coming up with this excellent ruse to flush the Desperate out of hiding.
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biff
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« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2011, 10:35:20 PM »

yes wickham,
               very well done,have a bag of aplauds,, Grin
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Ivan
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« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2011, 11:35:06 PM »

Trying to think of a 3 dimensional perhap infinite thing expanding in..uh something else.....is a bit tricky as we can't imagine what that could be like. So it's easier to imagine a two dimensional (surface of a balloon) or even simpler a one dimensional object expanding (rubber band). Take the latter: The only 'space on the rubber band is basically a line that goes all the way round in a circle and meets itself. If you were a one-dimensional being living on this expanding rubber band, even if it had started off infinitely small and expanded into the rubber band we see today, it doesn't matter which bit of the rubber band you point to none of it (or if you prefer, all of it) is the absolute centre of the rubber band.
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billi
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« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2011, 11:54:58 PM »

Depends on Age and Mood
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« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2011, 08:57:23 AM »

actually,,to be quite frank,,,or biff
                                to much is being made of this simple problem,all we need to be able to measure the centre of the universe are three points,,just three points of reference from which to see at a glance the centre of the universe.each would need to be orbiting its neighbour,in time and space an,,,,,,,,,
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