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Author Topic: New ASHP Install  (Read 11006 times)
StationHouse
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« on: August 30, 2011, 10:37:33 AM »

First post so be kind...

Last year we moved to our dream house the sticks which turned out to be a miserable experience over winter...

We inherited an elderly bulk LPG CH system, an LPG gas stove and an LPG flame effect fire. Little did we realise at that point just how expensive LPG is and that the old potterton CH boiler/rads were past it. Could not get the rads hot which meant big bills with no heat to show for it. And the two fires were more for effect only. I did try to flush the system and despite lot's of sludge coming out it made no real difference.

If we had not installed a new Stovax multifuel stove last October I think we would have moved back to our parents until spring! Needless to say the stove was never off but as it was at one end of the house the other end did not benefit from the heat where we had to use oil filled rads to bring the temps up to 16c or so. Despite having a woodland we had to buy in wood and coal as we were not prepared for winter, not cheap...

Anyway after a huge amount of research rightly or wrongly we plumped for and ASHP for the following reasons. It's always on (though temps are set to vary during the day) so the fabric of the house is nice and warm which has transformed it, the wife can work it, we just have the one heating bill now instead of four (LPG, Electric, Wood and Coal), loads of DHW and we can shop around for the cheapest electricity deals. GSHP was out as the garden was not suitable, pellet boilers were pricey and you have to house it somehow, a boiler stove connected to rads/dhw was out as installers never came back to us with quotes...

As we were starting again and combining it with renovations it did not make sense to continue with LPG and oil was out to as we did not want a oil tank at the front of the property and friends who have oil want to get rid of it for something else, again due to cost. Renovations included much more insulation in the property for the ASHP.

The ASHP heats the house through fan convectors, UFH and a towelrail radiator which is more for effect than heating due to very low flow temps.

Though the ASHP is cheap to run at the moment I'm fully aware it will be more expensive over winter but should still be cheaper than last years combination of wood, coal, LPG and electricity. Plus there's the 850 RHI payment on it's way and possible RHI payments for 18 years which would be a nice bonus but in no affected our decision to go ASHP. At the end of the day the system was chosen and designed for comfort/easy of use in a property occupied throughout the day not for the cheapest running costs. I'll be able to publish running costs if anyone is interested once I have recorded more electricity readings over the next winter. The only problem is the readings will include household use as well.

The future... I would love to have some fun having a bodge at generating electricity from our river to perhaps powering outdoor/shed/garage lights and have solar PV installed. Solar thermal is out as we made no provision for it with the new tank for the ASHP install though we did seriously look into it.

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billi
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« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2011, 10:56:18 AM »

Hi  and welcome

Quote
The future... I would love to have some fun having a bodge at generating electricity from our river to perhaps powering outdoor/shed/garage lights and have solar PV installed

hopefully you supply more details about your river and we make your Heatpump  one of the best in the UK  Grin


looks like a nice spot by the way
« Last Edit: August 30, 2011, 11:05:42 AM by billi » Logged

1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
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« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2011, 11:19:55 AM »

Welcome Stationhouse,

We all like to hear what people are doing and particularly how the plan turns out.

ASHP are always a point of discussion particularly as to how effective they are in deep winter in the UK where the high humidity levels can cause the build up of ice on the outsde unit. This is normally removed by a electrical heating element when of course the COP becomes close to 1 . I would love someone to actually put nos and quantity to this phenomenon.

I fear that most people spend time and money on looking at power input to the building and not enough on insulation and reducing power outputs.   Insulation is one of those kind of vague subjects which most people dont really have a feel for. Switch on a boiler yes -insulate so you dont need the boiler no.  Just imagine the effect of cutting out those vents and chimney for the fires! as a starter.

 I have a 5 Kw Stovax but really only use it in the evenings (dont believe in keeping it in overnight ).  I am sure it would heat the whole house if necessary.  Well with the LPG,ASHP,Stove you now have a good range of tools available and over the course of time will work out the best combination that suites you.

But a water turbine is something else again. Of all the renewables this has to be the most cost effective/productive.  If you have a decent river to access then thats like the jackpot. How big/flow rate is this river ?  Big enough to drive a ASHP ?

Ken
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rondurrans
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« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2011, 11:30:41 AM »

StationHouse you might like to try a book entitled 'Going with the Flow' (small scale water power) published by the Centre for Alternative Technology for 12 (try online store see link below) - Billy Langley & Dan Curtis

http://store.cat.org.uk/product_info.php?cPath=104_253&products_id=767
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StationHouse
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« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2011, 11:56:34 AM »

Thanks for the helpful replies and being kind.

From speaking to other ASHP owners they seemed to get through the winter fine though the odd one did have large leccy bills but not as bad as others who were on oil. Very hard to compare different households heating costs though... With this in mind we did our best to size the pump correctly, run at much lower flow temps (when compared to oversized rads)  and insulate everything inc CWI, under floors, loft, quality external doors and DG, thick underlay and carpets... House has never felt so warm though there is still more to do to the last two rooms.

Very happy to share information as when we were doing research there is not much on the web so we spent the best part of a year looking into all the options, viewing installed systems and speaking to the owners
and lots of installers to build up our knowledge. One thing is for sure there are installers out there that seem to know little about them so it's finger in the air stuff...

Will look through previous hydro posts and if you like can post pics of the river?

Cheers
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billi
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« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2011, 12:01:51 PM »

Quote
Will look through previous hydro posts and if you like can post pics of the river?


 extrahappy  yes please    se)(y  pics please
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1.6 kw and 2.4 kw   PV array  , Outback MX 60 and FM80 charge controller  ,24 volt 1600 AH Battery ,6 Kw Victron inverter charger, 1.1 kw high head hydro turbine as a back up generator , 5 kw woodburner, 36 solar tubes with 360 l water tank, 1.6 kw  windturbine
StationHouse
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« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2011, 01:29:04 PM »

I'll grab the camera and stick the wellies on tonight  Wink
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StationHouse
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« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2011, 10:25:41 PM »

Update - I've been tracking electricity usage since install it is working out at approx 20 per month for heating and DHW  Smiley Total leccy bill for house is around 50 per month. As this is Scotland and summer has been cr@p (as usual) it is heating... Water temp is boosted to 65c every 14 times i.e. once a week.

No doubt winter will be more expensive  winter Hence why i'm overpaying on the direct debit so there are no shocks  Shocked

ASHP is a single phase 14kw Mitsubushi EcoDan connected to UFH and Dimplex SmartRads.

The wife is really keen on the hydro generation stuff so will head over to these boards too  Grin
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Countrypaul
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« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2011, 11:36:30 PM »

As you have a river did you consider a water source heat pump ie. a ground source heat pump but with the source being the water in the river rather than dug into the ground?

Paul
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StationHouse
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« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2011, 12:12:53 AM »

Yes it was an option but was much more complex and expensive than the ASHP to install. Plus the heat pump, due to size, would have needed to into the garage, then get insulated/buried pipes into house etc

Cheers
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dullnote
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« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2011, 10:11:28 PM »

Hi StationHouse, I see your name pop up all over this site, and you still appear to like your ASHP, I too stay in Scotland and thinking about a pump, read about the horror stories all over the place.

at present I am paying for LPG, last week it cost me 6.06 a day thats a lot of Leccy I could buy, since the start of Sep when the heating went on average cost is 3.97 a day approx 30kw.

Please keep us posted throughout the winter I am very interested, to see how the pump performs.

I read somewhere you have missed out on the solar PV, I was fortunate to get my system in on time

Dullnote
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StationHouse
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« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2011, 10:34:27 PM »

Very happy with ASHP especially now it's freezing outside... Had to scrape the car this morning!  freeze

House is lovely and warm all the time and system just does what it needs to do so don't worry about heating anymore.

I'd almost blanked out this time last year, LPG and going through renovations...

PV going on this week, it's such a big thing i dunno what to expect or changes it will make...

If this was a money saving house i'd still be living in a Wimpey box  Wink

Tis only money, comes and goes...
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StationHouse
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« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2011, 11:46:38 AM »

After a few very mild weeks the temp has d
                                                              r
                                                               o
                                                                p
                                                                 p
                                                                  e
                                                                   d big time...

So far the ASHP is heating without breaking a sweat and no defrost cycles yet. Still cheap to run when compared to Oil/LPG etc

Early days but so far very happy fingers crossed!
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bassman
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« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2011, 01:09:36 PM »

Glad to hear your ASHP is performing well, as you know I had a ASHP installed in September and all is well so far.

Electric consumtion is gradualy rising as can be expected but not to the level (cost wise) that oil would have cost.

Surprised you have not had a defost cycle yet (you might have been sleeping at the time) as I have seen 3 recently since we have had sub zero temps and heavy frost.  Dusting of snow last night led to a defost this morning

I will be posting a link to my energy consumption for November soon
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Daikin 16kW Monobloc ASHP - Stovax 8kW multifuel stove
StationHouse
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« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2011, 01:58:16 PM »

Glad to hear your ASHP is performing well, as you know I had a ASHP installed in September and all is well so far.

Electric consumtion is gradualy rising as can be expected but not to the level (cost wise) that oil would have cost.

Surprised you have not had a defost cycle yet (you might have been sleeping at the time) as I have seen 3 recently since we have had sub zero temps and heavy frost.  Dusting of snow last night led to a defost this morning

I will be posting a link to my energy consumption for November soon

Great to hear your reply  Smiley I've been watching a gradual rise in electricity too and log it on excel but need to find a better way as it only really makes sense to me.

ASHP only really runs during the daytime unless the temp in the house drops to 17c or below during the night so fingers crossed defrost cycles will be few and far between...

From your description it's the same weather here.

There is a downside to fan convectors... Got a call from the wife... the cat just puked on one  facepalm  Can wait to clean that when I get home tonight...
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