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Author Topic: Hello - first post and I am installing an ASHP  (Read 25313 times)
StationHouse
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« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2011, 02:29:25 PM »

"for sod all running costs"  -  hysteria
Wait until winter!

Hi Martin,

There is no smiley for 'fingers crossed'  Huh  Wink

Cheers
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martin
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« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2011, 02:36:34 PM »

there is now! -  fingers crossed!
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StationHouse
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« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2011, 02:37:17 PM »

Like it  Grin
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StBarnabas
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« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2011, 08:40:13 PM »

"for sod all running costs"  -  hysteria
Wait until winter!
Martin
well yes, but there is nothing wrong with ASHP technology it is just so often in the UK that systems are badly designed and implemented. Why do the work so much better in Scandinavia or indeed continental Europe? A well implemented ASHP system can perform well and should do so in Northern Ireland, though if last December is going to be the norm then it will test any system to the limit
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Gestis Censere. 40x47mm DHW with TDC3. 3kW ASHP, 9kW GSHP, 3kW Navitron PV with Platinum 3100S GTI, 6.5kW WBS, 5 chickens. FMY 2009.
desperate
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Backache stuff!!


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« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2011, 09:13:30 PM »

We installed an ASHP to heat a converted garage almost a year ago now, the COP is just under 3 averaged out through the year, that includes a couple of weeks when it didn't do much in the worst of the snow. The customer uses an oil filled rad as backup for those periods, the consumption of which is added to the consumption of the heat pump to calculate the COP. The essential factor is providing a big enough heat exchanger outside and to place it in a position where it can make use of any sun and get an adequate flow of air. So many of them have the exchanger placed behind the bin shed or whatever they're bound to struggle.

Desp
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still a crazy old duffer!
martin
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« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2011, 11:01:33 PM »

"Why do the work so much better in Scandinavia or indeed continental Europe?" - my understanding is that the innate "sogginess" of the UK climate really doesn't help midwinter performance of an ASHP - and as has been pointed out, they're often incredibly badly chosen/sized/fitted in this country, and to make the most of the low-grade heat available, you really need underfloor heating - they really aren't the "straight swap for a conventional boiler" for which they are often touted!
Certainly the technology "works", but in my experience they are often oversold on their "COP", and have come across all sorts of wildly inaccurate claims from their vendors
In practical terms, you'll need another form of heating for the depths of winter, and to tide you over through power cuts, add to that the reported reliability problems, and the fact a lot of people are ripping the things out as they've proved ineffective/too expensive to run, and the "wisdom" of overloading an already creaking grid with the things I remain sceptical as to their widespread usefulness.... I certainly can't see any sense in using them where mains gas is available
« Last Edit: September 29, 2011, 11:19:06 PM by martin » Logged

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StationHouse
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« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2011, 09:10:48 AM »

Anyway I have a cunning plan  onpatrol

Having given up tea and coffee I have boosted the ASHP winter running cost by £70 (going by my meter readings)   signofcross
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StBarnabas
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« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2011, 01:32:12 PM »

"Why do the work so much better in Scandinavia or indeed continental Europe?" - my understanding is that the innate "sogginess" of the UK climate really doesn't help midwinter performance of an ASHP - and as has been pointed out, they're often incredibly badly chosen/sized/fitted in this country, and to make the most of the low-grade heat available, you really need underfloor heating - they really aren't the "straight swap for a conventional boiler" for which they are often touted!
Certainly the technology "works", but in my experience they are often oversold on their "COP", and have come across all sorts of wildly inaccurate claims from their vendors
In practical terms, you'll need another form of heating for the depths of winter, and to tide you over through power cuts, add to that the reported reliability problems, and the fact a lot of people are ripping the things out as they've proved ineffective/too expensive to run, and the "wisdom" of overloading an already creaking grid with the things I remain sceptical as to their widespread usefulness.... I certainly can't see any sense in using them where mains gas is available

Martin
I don’t disagree with regards to much of what you say. I’m not sure about the sogginess of the UK being a killer. It would be interesting to compare ASHPs Norway and Sweden as parts of Norway e.g. Bergen are famously soggy. You are absolutely correct regarding “badly chosen/sized/fitted” and the need for UHF. They are absolutely NOT suitable for a direct boiler replacement.
There is nothing however intrinsically wrong with ASHP technology, unlike small roof mounted wind turbines or mirrored sunboxes! My own ASHP (used for hot water only) is used to back up the Navitron vacuum tube system. This has run over the summer for on average a bit less than 1 unit of E7 electricity per day even with MrsBs voracious use of hot water! Granted that this is as much a tribute to the Navi tubes as to the ASHP system.

A flow chart might be useful...


Do you have mains gas?
Unless your ASHP/GSHP system is very well designed you are unlikely to save any money on running costs. The capital cost however is likely to be far higher than a conventional boiler/central heating system. Under almost no circumstances therefore is a heat pump system a good idea.
No Mains Gas.
Do you have underfloor heating and a building with a large thermal mass and long time constant? Then it is worth looking into heat pumps....
« Last Edit: September 30, 2011, 03:53:13 PM by StBarnabas » Logged


Gestis Censere. 40x47mm DHW with TDC3. 3kW ASHP, 9kW GSHP, 3kW Navitron PV with Platinum 3100S GTI, 6.5kW WBS, 5 chickens. FMY 2009.
bassman
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« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2011, 01:26:20 PM »

Well folks as promised I have kept a log of usage and costs of my Daikin Altherma Monobloc 16kw sice it was installed at the end of September 2011

Heres a link to my present data charts

https://picasaweb.google.com/108455921836178416144/ASHPDataOctober262011?authuser=0&feat=directlink


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Daikin 16kW Monobloc ASHP - Stovax 8kW multifuel stove
rondurrans
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« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2011, 01:33:47 PM »

Something wrong with the link I think?
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4 kW PV Array on the North Wales Coast - http://energy1.moonfruit.com/
'Nullius in verba' & 'Nothing Endures but Change' (Heraclitus)
bassman
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« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2011, 01:38:22 PM »

Try now

new link

https://picasaweb.google.com/108455921836178416144/ASHPDataOctober262011?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCMmjjtP-x96meg&feat=directlink
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 01:41:21 PM by bassman » Logged

Daikin 16kW Monobloc ASHP - Stovax 8kW multifuel stove
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« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2011, 01:42:49 PM »

Can you let me know it is working now as it might only be ok for me
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Daikin 16kW Monobloc ASHP - Stovax 8kW multifuel stove
rondurrans
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« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2011, 01:50:12 PM »

OK now thanks.
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4 kW PV Array on the North Wales Coast - http://energy1.moonfruit.com/
'Nullius in verba' & 'Nothing Endures but Change' (Heraclitus)
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« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2011, 01:53:17 PM »

Why does the bottom graph show to the end of Oct?
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4 kW PV Array on the North Wales Coast - http://energy1.moonfruit.com/
'Nullius in verba' & 'Nothing Endures but Change' (Heraclitus)
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« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2011, 02:08:39 PM »

Do ASHPs need to be operated 24/7? Also it would be good to see the external temp. against the kWh usage to see how they correlate.
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4 kW PV Array on the North Wales Coast - http://energy1.moonfruit.com/
'Nullius in verba' & 'Nothing Endures but Change' (Heraclitus)
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