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Author Topic: Hello - first post and I am installing an ASHP  (Read 24167 times)
StBarnabas
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« Reply #45 on: November 11, 2011, 01:56:51 PM »

Hi Bassman

thanks for keeping us informed. I've been meaning to instrument my GSHP system for some time.

At the risk of sounding pedantic you should use kWh rather than KwH.  K is a unit of temperature (Kelvin), H is a unit of inductance (Henry). I have no idea what lower case w stands for - it is not normally used in the SI system.

Sean
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Gestis Censere. 40x47mm DHW with TDC3. 3kW ASHP, 9kW GSHP, 3kW Navitron PV with Platinum 3100S GTI, 6.5kW WBS, 5 chickens. FMY 2009.
bassman
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« Reply #46 on: November 11, 2011, 02:27:46 PM »

Point taken, but I would say the 99% of people would know what I was meaning, as you did yourself

Will take care in future to use correct case

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Daikin 16kW Monobloc ASHP - Stovax 8kW multifuel stove
bassman
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« Reply #47 on: December 12, 2011, 01:21:33 PM »

As promised

Latest power readings for 16kw Daikin ASHP for November 2011

https://picasaweb.google.com/108455921836178416144/October262011?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCM-0qfuOjc_9ew&feat=directlink

Couple of 0c days where you see the peaks
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Daikin 16kW Monobloc ASHP - Stovax 8kW multifuel stove
JonG
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« Reply #48 on: December 21, 2011, 09:25:03 PM »

Hi Bassman, did your installer give you the breakdown of energy useage from the Daikin sim, it would be interesting to see how you are performing against their software prediction. We have 2 that we are monitoring at present and both are ahead of the Dec prediction despite 1 of them not being a fully finished project.

Also have you considered the impact of the lower COPs available overnight due to lower ambients. Its not unusual to set back flow or air temps overnight to combat this and also to avoid hot water charging during the night, we usually set the hot water to constant demand to avoid long spells of hot water heating that detract from heating the house. This generally means that the cylinder is back to setpoint after its last use and not charging through the coldest period. If you are not using set back at the moment, don't reduce by more than 2 degrees otherwise the recovery load is to great.

As yet we have not empirically assessed the cost of either option but might be something to try.

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RobNute
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« Reply #49 on: December 21, 2011, 11:16:34 PM »

Hi, was just wondering how noisy the outdoor units are in real terms. We lived in Oz until for 5 yrs and lived with the need for air conditioners from time to time, I think they are essentially the same but in reverse and the units look the same . The fans in them can make quite a drone which never bothered us much but at night could be annoying, how do you find your system, I guess that is one of the factors that is a compromise when placing the outdoor parts, best position - least noise. In Oz you have to replace your old emmersion water heater with an ashp standalone unit when your old one packs up. How well they work on a + 40c day I don't know, but then cold shower is what you need anyway!
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bassman
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« Reply #50 on: January 09, 2012, 01:45:14 PM »

To answer the last two posts, no I was not given a breakdown of the energy usage just a yearly estimate that seemed satisfactory at the time

In saying this I am happy, at present my energy usage from October is half (cost wise) of what a work collegue is using in oil and we used very similar amounts of oil over the last 5 years

Regarding noise, unit is very quite unless it is getting to the point of going into defrost mode and is finding air hard to get!  Overall you would not know it was running

Here is my latest graph showing December figures for my ASHP - As can be seen the frosty and icy days and nights mid December saw a heavy increase in power input. Nevertheless I am still saving around 40% on running costs compared to oil and I still have to get my RHI payments

https://picasaweb.google.com/108455921836178416144/October262011?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCM-0qfuOjc_9ew&feat=directlink
« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 03:13:50 PM by bassman » Logged

Daikin 16kW Monobloc ASHP - Stovax 8kW multifuel stove
HalcyonRichard
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« Reply #51 on: January 09, 2012, 04:37:39 PM »

Hello Bassman,
                     Its wonderful to see that data - thanks very much for posting it. Thinking about JonG's post but thinking in reverse if that makes sense. Your peak units cost over twice your cheap units. Even considering a lower COP at night is it possible it may be cheaper to slightly over heat the home on cheap units. This would mean less peak units. Whether this would save money overall is not an easy thing to work out. But with the data you have you could compare any new heating scheme with the old data. Also with a 16 kW ASHP it would need to run this for 3 hours on some cold days. Could all of this be on cheap units ? I suppose it depends on how well your home holds in the heat over time.

Regards Richard
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Laws are for the guidance of wise men and the obeyance of fools - Richard Burton upon Trent
HalcyonRichard
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« Reply #52 on: January 09, 2012, 06:02:18 PM »

Hi,
    Just had time to read whole thread.
   OOPS or DOH ! as Homer Simpson would say. Looks like you already have this covered.

I really must put brain in gear before opening mouth  whistlie

Regards Richard

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Laws are for the guidance of wise men and the obeyance of fools - Richard Burton upon Trent
JonG
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« Reply #53 on: January 10, 2012, 05:31:30 AM »

Hi Bassman, just out of interest here are the average daily consumption figures for the 4 that we have monitored at the moment for December:

Daikin 16kw Nordic: 49 226 sqm property

Twin 16kw Daikin Standard Low temps: 73 700 sqm Property

NIBE 11 kw Fighter: 21 128 sqm property

Grant Aerona: 19 (Heating only) 118 sqm property

I can't quite calculate what your average total usage per day is from the graphs, but Dec where we are was a good representative month in that it was only plus 1 degree above the 30 year normative temperatures. The 2 Daikins were circa 36% better than what the December month prediction from their software would suggest, NIBE's software does not offer a month by month prediction and Grant don't have any software.


 
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StationHouse
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« Reply #54 on: January 10, 2012, 08:29:57 AM »

Dec averaged 43 units a day for me.

Mits EcoDan 14kw 106sqm Heating and DHW
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rondurrans
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« Reply #55 on: January 10, 2012, 09:04:46 AM »

JonG do you know what COP you are getting please?

Thanks Ron
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4 kW PV Array on the North Wales Coast - http://energy1.moonfruit.com/
'Nullius in verba' & 'Nothing Endures but Change' (Heraclitus)
bassman
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« Reply #56 on: January 10, 2012, 12:03:49 PM »

Hi JonG

I averaged 40.2 units per 24 hour period for December for ASHP   (Split - Peak 22.7 and Off peak 17.5)

My immersion heater to boost DHW heat used approx 4 units per day also


Looks very similar to your 16K Nordic as I am heating 185sq m

Have you included any immersion heater usage?

Did the nordic get MCS accredtation?

QUESTION -Would it be more helpful if I published (monthly) actual daily comsumption figures as opposed to a graph as at present.  Let me know
« Last Edit: January 10, 2012, 02:22:43 PM by bassman » Logged

Daikin 16kW Monobloc ASHP - Stovax 8kW multifuel stove
JonG
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« Reply #57 on: January 10, 2012, 07:13:11 PM »

We would love to record cop but quite problematic and expensive to do and customers are more interested in cost which we can do simply with a meter.

The meters on the daikins record all consumption including extra circulators controls etc. We set them up to only use immersion for pasteurisation to keep dhw costs down and aim for a setpoint of 47-48 degrees.

The nibe has a meter on immersion, heat pump and back up but only heat pump data on here, immersion is for pasteurisation only and backup has not kicked in.

Grant is a long story only worth telling if someone is considering one.

Station house are your figures purely for the heat pump or domestic consumption too?

Nordic is not mcs yet but customer wanted the low coverage it offers.

Batman if you have your location, heat loss and hi and Lo flow temps I can model your system through the daikin software and confirm monthly consumption.
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sam123
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« Reply #58 on: January 11, 2012, 09:31:39 AM »

Just invest few pounds to Pollucom meter. It is commonly used here in Finland. And after installation you really KNOW what is your COP. It helps also very much to optimize your settings.

http://www.ebay.de/sch/?_kw=pollucom&_clu=2&_fcid=70&_localstpos=&_npmv=3&_sc=1&_sop=15&_stpos=&gbr=1

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StationHouse
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« Reply #59 on: January 11, 2012, 10:29:52 AM »

We would love to record cop but quite problematic and expensive to do and customers are more interested in cost which we can do simply with a meter.

The meters on the daikins record all consumption including extra circulators controls etc. We set them up to only use immersion for pasteurisation to keep dhw costs down and aim for a setpoint of 47-48 degrees.

The nibe has a meter on immersion, heat pump and back up but only heat pump data on here, immersion is for pasteurisation only and backup has not kicked in.

Grant is a long story only worth telling if someone is considering one.

Station house are your figures purely for the heat pump or domestic consumption too?

Nordic is not mcs yet but customer wanted the low coverage it offers.

Batman if you have your location, heat loss and hi and Lo flow temps I can model your system through the daikin software and confirm monthly consumption.

My figures are for the whole house.

Cheers
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