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Author Topic: Proven turbine problems  (Read 45125 times)
AlanM
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« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2011, 09:16:50 AM »

"I expect it actually is much more useful as a guide to the quality of wind turbines"

At 100000 to go through MCS,  a turbine not being accredited is not an indication of poor quality or performance

Alan
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Ted
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« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2011, 10:08:10 AM »

But the whole point of MCS product accreditation is that it is a mark of quality - at least for wind turbines.

I see this as a major failure for MCS product testing. There are some searching questions that need to be answered about this aspect.
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clockmanFR
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« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2011, 10:32:00 AM »

This is from another post on this forum,

NHThomas
     Re: The answer to all our wind problems ?
 I think the point that is being missed is 1) that we are a technology development company and we have been developing our technology for many years and are at the point of commercialization, we have not entered the market yet, and 2) my point in entering this discussion was to argue that VAWT technology can be viable and efficient, the Cp vs TSR graph I posted is of a VAWT in a linear array formation, demonstrating the potential to achieve efficiencies within 92% of the theoretical limit by using a concept discussed in the Dabiri article.  From my perspective that is the relevant data. You could say that the Dabiri team's work backs up our argument or that our work and Paraschiviou's analysis backs up theirs, either way it should foster a little bit of optimism for VAWT technology. 

I guess I'll see you on the flip side of MCS certification compadres.


Got an idea, So borrow money, get it MCS certification, and sell it as approved.
Wonder what Trading Standards would say, "Is it fit for purpose" "does it do what it says's on the tin" and "is is it of merchantable quality" ie, does it break down because its poorly made.
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Eleanor
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« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2011, 01:29:37 PM »

Looks like help may be at hand and the Administrators are already in discussions :

http://www.iconenergy.co.uk/news.php

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AlanM
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« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2011, 01:40:17 PM »

wasn't implying that MCS isn't  a mark of quality, rather than the lack of MCS, does not mean turbine is not fit. My point was the financial hurdle knocked out many(all?) of the smaller turbines as it simply wasn't viable to get certification for something which only costs around a few thousand.

Alan
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Eleanor
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« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2011, 01:49:01 PM »

My neighbour's having a bit of a mare with this. She placed an order late last year with Icon for a Proven 11 and submitted a Planning Application which still hasn't been determined because of the noise issue. It looked like it may be turned down due to noise but now it may be approved. In the meantime the P11 has been MCS accredited and Proven have gone out of business and may be taken over by Icon et al. How long do these things take?  Huh
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timbo
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« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2011, 02:29:24 PM »

Eleanor,

This looks like a really good candidate company to get sold quickly and be trading again.

A new company could have MCS approved products in production with all development costs, approval costs, liabilities written off and reduced overheads from hand picking the team from the existing staff.

I am not rushing to go through planning again with another turbine.

Hopefully just a few weeks all will be OK.

Tim.
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Eleanor
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« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2011, 02:36:44 PM »

Timbo, as an existing installer Icon should be in a good position to get the business started again with minimum of disruption. The neighbour's hanging in there for the moment. If planning approval isn't granted the contract becomes void anyway.
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Ted
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« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2011, 03:31:02 PM »

I hope Icon, or any other prospective purchaser of Proven, get a clear indication from MCS that the existing product registrations would be transferable to a new company. I think it is nothing more than an assumption that they would be.
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timbo
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« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2011, 11:43:40 AM »

Ted,

The requirements for a product to be approved are all here, it's not pretty:

http://www.microgenerationcertification.org/admin/documents/MCS%20006%20-%20Issue%201.5%20Product%20Certification%20Scheme%20Requirements%20-%20Micro%20and%20Small%20Wind%20Turbines%2010%20July%202009.pdf

If MCS treat the new company as a new product application it will involve lots of inspections and audits and repeat fee.

If it takes a long time when the P11 product is known to be OK, it might start to look like the MCS is a barrier to market entry..... ;-)
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Ted
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« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2011, 12:13:25 PM »

The MCS product test requirements and costs are already clearly a barrier to market entry.

The thing that is puzzling me at present about this situation is why haven't LCA come up with some cash to keep Proven going. They seem too quick to write-off their existing 11 million investment. Surely it would be better to have a 50% chance of recouping a 12m investment than to be 100% certain to lose 11m?
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timbo
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« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2011, 06:55:21 PM »

Lets hope the MCS isn't a critical factor that prevents a sale/MBO.

It would be ironic indeed if the system that Proven helped build was ultimately their downfall.

Tim.
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scoraigwind
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« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2011, 08:08:47 PM »

The MCS product test requirements and costs are already clearly a barrier to market entry.

The thing that is puzzling me at present about this situation is why haven't LCA come up with some cash to keep Proven going. They seem too quick to write-off their existing 11 million investment. Surely it would be better to have a 50% chance of recouping a 12m investment than to be 100% certain to lose 11m?

Yes this is really the interesting part.  In their calculations the chances must now be rather low.  I suspect this is the last straw in a long series of 'OK just one more chance' refills.  I can hear them telling Proven that if it goes wrong once more they will pull the plug.

I wonder how many other venture capitalists are wondering how they ever got involved in small wind. 

It's never been easy.
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clivejo
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« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2011, 08:13:18 PM »

There goes my chances of getting a new magnet plate from them  facepalm
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« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2011, 08:21:00 PM »

nope clivejo,
       worry not.the irish side of things carry spares.you could contact the local agent and i am sure he will try and fix u up.
                                                                                                                     biff
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