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Author Topic: Studer inverter woes  (Read 4805 times)
camillitech
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« on: January 31, 2012, 01:07:59 PM »

Hi Chaps,

my mate has a Studer C 2600 24 supplying his off grid property (actually I think it's the earlier model but I'm sure they're the same). It is a fine, rugged and reliable piece of kit but the programming is a nightmare with instructions that would make even the worst Chinese translation look positively eloquent  Roll Eyes Of late it has not been starting the Lister to 'power assist' when the load goes over a certain threshold, it just goes and trips out. It starts the generator fine as the voltage drops to charge the batteries but not to share a load  Huh

Any ideas chaps, it's on this weeks 'to do' list and the manual is gibberish  banghead Just a thought it's a 24v system, around 800ah and two of the cells are dicky, not normally an issue as they're supplied by hydro and solar but could this have any bearing on the matter  Huh

Cheers, Paul
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'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SMA SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 8kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
Outtasight
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« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2012, 12:05:12 AM »

If you're still playing with this one, then yes, two bad cells on a 24V bank will be enough for the inverter to trip out under any significant sudden load before the generator has a chance to support it. 

Most inverters have a low Voltage disconnect built in at about 20-21V.  It will have no time-delay or anything... My inverter gives warning beeps from 22V and then just trips out when it gets to the LVD setpoint (although it will light a red indicator to say this is what caused the trip).  Dunno if the Studer has this telltale indicator.

If the bank drifts down towards 24.0V (or whatever the low battery gen start setpoint is) on a light load, the inverter may well start the generator and survive as the gen had time to get going and prop up the bad cells.  If you pile on a big load all of a sudden, the two bad cells will collapse the pack Voltage to the LVD trip point before the genny has a chance to get going and join the party.

It probably works ok just powering some lights around the house (with the genny starting up as battery gets low) but trips out immediately when you put the kettle on?
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3.58kWp & 800Ah LiFeYPO4 off-grid(ish). See 'Cobbled together PV in W.Sussex' (in "Show Us Yours")
camillitech
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« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2012, 06:07:42 AM »

Thanks Outta,

you confirmed my suspicions, I've talked my mate into 800ah of Rolls batteries  Cool It does seem  just as you say and only happens when a heavy load is put on suddenly.

Cheers, Paul
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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SMA SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 8kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
rogeriko
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« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2012, 08:07:51 AM »

Aren't "made in Canada" Rolls batteries really expensive compared to good old Opzs? They certainly are here, what sort of prices can you get Rolls for in the UK. The "made in greece" 1000Ah Opzs with the clear cases are only 300 something euros here and they are indestructable, 80 kilos each.
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camillitech
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« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2012, 08:48:22 AM »

Morning Roger, 224GBP each plus VAT (but I'm registered) for 400ah 6v so 3584GBP for my 48v bank, half that for my mates 24v bank and cheap delivery from a supplier that I trust. The OPZ's would come in at almost double that here  Shocked
They also have a seven year warranty  Cool I really like the look of those OPZ's but Hugh Piggott my supplier http://scoraigwind.com/ recommends the Rolls and understands the logistics of getting them to a wee island in the middle of nowhere  Grin

Cheers, Paul

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http://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/

'Off grid' since 1985,  Proven 2.5kW, Proven 6kW direct heating, SMA SI6.OH, 800ah Rolls, 8kW PV ,4xTS45, Lister HR2 12kW, , Powerspout pelton, Stream Engine turgo, 60 x Navitron toobs and a 1500lt store. Outback VFX3048 and 950ah forklifts for backup,
rogeriko
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« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2012, 10:19:51 AM »

Yes the Rolls batteries are exactly the same price here, its the Opzs that are expensive there, I'd better get in the battery export business. The Rolls 400 are only rated 340Ah at C10 therefore you would need 12x6v to make a 1000Ah system, here that would cost 3108 euros but the Opzs 1095Ah C10, 12x2v cells, would only cost 3348 euros. Thats why you see pictures of them in all my installs. It dosn't cost much to ship a pallet Greece to UK.
http://www.eshops.gr/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=83. I get them even cheaper than this. Why are they so expensive in the UK?
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clivejo
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« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2012, 12:20:10 PM »

Probably some sort of import tax on them, everything is more expensive in the UK due to HMCE.  The government do like their cut!  Take from the rich and give to the poor or bone idle!

Maybe if you imported them as trampoline weights for use in stormy weather, one could get round the import duty.  Or maybe not!!!  You might end up in jail like the guy in RoI who was importing garlic but declared it as apples!!  He was jailed for six years for the Ä1.6m scam!!  Thats a lot of apples, errrr garlic!
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DISCLAIMER : Iím not responsible for anythingÖ for anything I say or do. Cos Iím a proud member of clan Eejit who once ruled Ireland.
Outtasight
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« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2012, 10:52:58 AM »

Yes, importing from Canada will attract customs duty and VAT.  How much duty depends on the exact commodity code used on the manifest (there are several different codes for batteries).

Importing from Greece (within the EU, for now  whistlie) does not attract UK customs duty but VAT is payable (either in Greece or the UK or if you're VAT registered, not at all).

It was the same for me importing from the Czech Republic with my new cells (paid 20% VAT in Cz and nothing to HMCE).  

The Czech bods had already paid the customs duty on importing the cells from China to the EU, so I didn't have to get into all that.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2012, 10:55:33 AM by Outtasight » Logged

http://solarbodge.blogspot.com/
3.58kWp & 800Ah LiFeYPO4 off-grid(ish). See 'Cobbled together PV in W.Sussex' (in "Show Us Yours")
biff
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« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2012, 11:20:48 AM »

clive,
       I think they just gave him the 6 years for bad breath.Seanie fitzpatrick is looking good and about to bring out a book all about how to embezzle 120 million and stay out of prison.Its called  "I BROKE THE BANK" N"WRECKED THE COUNTRY" AND "IM STILL FREE" and he is not kidding.Wait,,maybe its three books, facepalm
                                                  Biff
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An unpaid Navitron volunteer,who has been living off-grid,powered by wind and solar,each year better than the last one.
dhaslam
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« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2012, 12:33:08 PM »

It may  just be the difference in approach  in enforcement between Customs and Excise and  other  government departments  or it signals a major change.   It is common for illegal cigarette  importers, for example,  to be jailed but not  usually tax  evaders or directors for breaches of company law.    Given the scale of the Anglo problem it is hard to see  how  the  investigation into the major company law breaches involved is  not going to break new ground.     

Anyway it pays to pay taxes import taxes properly and shop around  for the best price.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0203/1224311175449.html
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